On Jan 5, 2014, at 10:53 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-04 21:08, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Been playing remapping some "slime slim, full size Apple" kbd but the results aren't great. Does anybody have a canonical list of VT220 escape codes, preferably in hex (I think my term's escape sequence is broken)..
Why don't you use xterm? The mappings are already correct. And as a bonus, you actually get a VT100 emulation with less bugs.
Sounds like an interesting project would be to do a proper VT2xx emulator (ideally from the DEC terminal SRM, if a copy can be found, failing that from published VT2xx manuals). Wx would be a good way to do that, since it s a very useable portable development environment. Or to make it even more straightforward, in WxPython?
paul
On 2014-01-06 11:22, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 6 Jan 2014, at 00:05, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes:
Yeah, thinking of going that route, even though Xterm does look like =
crap and isn't really well integrated into the rest of OS X.
As a bonus, I'll get Erik's SIXEL support too..
What are you going to use it with?
I was actually just looking to get access to the editing + numeric keypad, which it turns out that both Terminal.app + iTerm have built in. So I'm just gonna stick with those - I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I _STILL_ haven't found anything so buggy as to be memorable in 5+ years of using Terminal.app.
Might be different on the VMS version compared to RSX, but EDT in RSX sometimes use DECCOLM. At which point, your screen gets totally FUBAR using Terminal.app...
It'd be nice if it did SIXEL graphics, though, but again, I use those maybe once a year.
That's more often than I do. :-)
If VMS, you can't beat "$ CREATE/TERMINAL" if what you're seeking is DEC
terminal emulation.
With create/terminal you get into the fun of multiple clipboards again.
Yes, since that will once again be an X application, which works just like any other X application.
You need to setup a font server or copy the DEC fonts
to your MAc, create the font library and setup the path.
A simple, sane, user-friendly solution in the traditional Unix tradition :)
It is all very simple, and sane. You just have to try avoid using various proprietary solutions that mess things up... :-) It's when you mix those in that things becomes insane.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 6 Jan 2014, at 00:05, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes:
Yeah, thinking of going that route, even though Xterm does look like =
crap and isn't really well integrated into the rest of OS X.
As a bonus, I'll get Erik's SIXEL support too..
What are you going to use it with?
I was actually just looking to get access to the editing + numeric keypad, which it turns out that both Terminal.app + iTerm have built in. So I'm just gonna stick with those - I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I _STILL_ haven't found anything so buggy as to be memorable in 5+ years of using Terminal.app.
It'd be nice if it did SIXEL graphics, though, but again, I use those maybe once a year.
If VMS, you can't beat "$ CREATE/TERMINAL" if what you're seeking is DEC
terminal emulation.
With create/terminal you get into the fun of multiple clipboards again.
You need to setup a font server or copy the DEC fonts
to your MAc, create the font library and setup the path.
A simple, sane, user-friendly solution in the traditional Unix tradition :)
Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> writes:
Yeah, thinking of going that route, even though Xterm does look like =
crap and isn't really well integrated into the rest of OS X.
As a bonus, I'll get Erik's SIXEL support too..
What are you going to use it with?
If VMS, you can't beat "$ CREATE/TERMINAL" if what you're seeking is DEC
terminal emulation. You need to setup a font server or copy the DEC fonts
to your MAc, create the font library and setup the path.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 01/05/2014 02:06 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Fair enough, so there isn't a specific issue, it's just vaguely "buggy"?
It's SPECIFICALLY "buggy". I end up shouting the word "FUCK!" a great
many times when I try to run EDT under Terminal.app.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 01/05/2014 01:44 PM, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Yeah, thinking of going that route, even though Xterm does look
like crap and isn't really well integrated into the rest of OS
X.
Looks like crap? Not sure I agree with that. It does not have a lot
of eye candy and similar drivel. Instead it just looks like a
terminal - which is what I think it should look like.
Ok, that's a tad harsh, but let's say it doesn't visually integrate
well with the rest of the UI. If I didn't care about this stuff I
wouldn't be on an OS X box, but seriously, the xterm UI is abysmal
(Want to change the font or say background colour? Oh, edit
.Xresources - WTF?!?).
Wow. You're a highly technical computer professional, and you can't
be bothered to...EDIT A FILE?
Wow. Just...wow.
For the ONE TIME you have to do it, it takes five minutes. I created
my .Xresources file probably twenty years ago and haven't touched it
since. It gets migrated from machine to machine, and everything JUST WORKS.
BTW, I ran OS X for many years...from 10.1 until 10.7 hit the streets.
(I never ran 10.7...I didn't go past 10.5 myself, because 10.6 really
started to suck and it seems to have gotten steadily worse from there)
For a long time, OS X was the best way to get a fast GUI-enabled UNIX
desktop machine. Sadly that time has passed, but when I was running it,
my X server started when the machine started up, and I ran X and native
OS X applications side-by-side with excellent integration via Xquartz.
Everything just worked, no complaints.
And Xterm didn't look all that different from Terminal.app. I wonder
what's so broken about your machine that it DOES look different.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:09, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 20:04, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
Ok, so I open up an SSH connection to CHIMPY.
1. Resize the window
2. SET TERM/INQ
3. Run EDIT
Terminal.app the new dimensions are used, xterm is still 80x25..
I'm sure there a really intuitive .Xresource somewhere that I need to set to enable this, but as I haven't been using xterm for 20 years like you mentioned before, I find this rather irritating (also, how DOES pasting stuff into xterm work anyway)?
Uh.. No... Since SET TERM/INQ do not tell the size of the window. And a VT100 cannot report such things that way, of course xterm can't either.
What you actually see/get in this case is that the resizing itself can be passed over the link between xterm and the ssh server. And yes, xterm can and will report the size change (assuming the conditions are correct).
If you want more details on how this works, and how things needs to be set up (assuming you are still interested in using xterm) send me a mail, and we can go through details outside the list. This is getting rather off-topic for HECnet. :-)
Yeah, don't worry - I won't be using xterm as simple stuff that works out of the box on Terminal.app seems to fail on xterm for me. I don't really have the desire or need to learn how to use it properly either :)
Now DTTERM, that's terminal emulator I want to get to know better.
Sampsa
On 2014-01-05 20:06, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Fair enough, so there isn't a specific issue, it's just vaguely "buggy"?
Uh? No. I said "DECCOLM does not clear the window". Did you not see that mail? I can list a bunch of other bugs as well, if you really want to, but for me DECCOLM is a showstopper.
I'll stick to Terminal.app :)
Feel free.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-01-05 20:04, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
Ok, so I open up an SSH connection to CHIMPY.
1. Resize the window
2. SET TERM/INQ
3. Run EDIT
Terminal.app the new dimensions are used, xterm is still 80x25..
I'm sure there a really intuitive .Xresource somewhere that I need to set to enable this, but as I haven't been using xterm for 20 years like you mentioned before, I find this rather irritating (also, how DOES pasting stuff into xterm work anyway)?
Uh.. No... Since SET TERM/INQ do not tell the size of the window. And a VT100 cannot report such things that way, of course xterm can't either.
What you actually see/get in this case is that the resizing itself can be passed over the link between xterm and the ssh server. And yes, xterm can and will report the size change (assuming the conditions are correct).
If you want more details on how this works, and how things needs to be set up (assuming you are still interested in using xterm) send me a mail, and we can go through details outside the list. This is getting rather off-topic for HECnet. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Fair enough, so there isn't a specific issue, it's just vaguely "buggy"?
I'll stick to Terminal.app :)
Sampsa
