On Sat, 17 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I got the one perfectly cleaned...but the motor appears to be failing at
times and putting a cartridge in seals its fate. If I start using it
beyond the first foot or so I'd be fine...so long as I never want to
REMOVE the cartridge.
A bit odd. I don't remember ever having that problem. I've had drives that occasionally decided to not give the cartridge back, and I have had to extract them and manually rewind the tape in (boring as hell), but after some mucking around I've normally gotten them working again.
But the TK50 is not the best design around, and the operation is confusing. The TK70 is better... And TK50 exists in different firmware revisions, and some are quirkier than others.
Agreed with the operation being confusing. ;)
I think I'm going to end up just cleaning a DAT drive and shoving RSTS/E install media on that.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
On 2014-05-17 19:33, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the
drive. There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws.
Remove the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the
pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Johnny
I got the one perfectly cleaned...but the motor appears to be failing at
times and putting a cartridge in seals its fate. If I start using it
beyond the first foot or so I'd be fine...so long as I never want to
REMOVE the cartridge.
A bit odd. I don't remember ever having that problem. I've had drives that occasionally decided to not give the cartridge back, and I have had to extract them and manually rewind the tape in (boring as hell), but after some mucking around I've normally gotten them working again.
But the TK50 is not the best design around, and the operation is confusing. The TK70 is better... And TK50 exists in different firmware revisions, and some are quirkier than others.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
On 2014-05-17 18:59, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
On 2014-05-11 05:11, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening all,
Got a nice haul of equipment today...aside from the TK50 issues and the
smoking VT340 everything seems to be okay!
However:
CARTRIDGE PRESENT
HEAD AT TRACK ZERO
POSITIONED AT BOT
TRK NUMBER 00
LOGICAL TRACK NUMBER = 0.
PHYSICAL BLK# 0000
PHYSICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
LOGICAL BLK# 00
LOGICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
TAPE POSITION 000EFB
TAPE POSITION = 3835.
DRIVE STATE 035E
RD/WRT STATE 1937
OPERATION FLGS 0201
CNTRLR STATUS 0C
DRIVE ERROR
DRIVE ERR CODE 93
AMPLITUDE ON HEAD 2 TOO LOW
and an error about it being unable to find calibration track 2 on the
second drive lead me to believe the drives may be faulty. The leader
isn't broken and I've reattached it to the arm on the one where it had
come off.
How would I do about cleaning one? Are the drives bad and a cleaning
wouldn't help?
(Yes, I tried multiple cartridges)
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the drive.
There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws. Remove
the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Try ethanol instead! "Rubbing" ethanol is available at most drug stores
along side isopropanol. This is, of course, denatured so that it can not
(or should not) be consumed. If you want the purest, off to the liquor
store and get yoruself a bottle of grain alcohol (Everclear is one brand
names of pure grain alcohol). It's what I use simply because I've never
sussed out what is used as the denaturing addative with the drug store's
ethanol.
Isopropanol can oxidize producing a ketone. The ketone that it oxidizes
into is acetone. Not what I would prefer to have on the rubber (real or
otherwise) conponents nor to come in contact with my tapes. Depending on
what is gunked up in your TK50, some of those chemicals may suffice as a
catalyst in the oxidation thereof.
I do know that the tech wipes (small pouches with alcohol dampened cloth
or paper) we used back in the day were ethanol based. Perhaps, for this
very reason?
I have bottles from DEC saying "Tape cleaning fluid", and it's Isopropanol. All my manuals for various hardware also always say to clean using Isopropanol, so I think Isopropanol is a safe bet to use. :-)
However, pure ethanol should not be a problem either, unless it actually might be to aggressive in dissolving things.
My main concerns with ethanol would be how aggressive it might be, and secondly any possible residue left behind id it wasn't pure. I would like to have something that is at least 96% ethanol if I were to use that for cleaning. (You won't find that in normal stores in Sweden at least, since it's dangerous to consume as it is, and diluting it with water would mean you'd get a lot of alcohol without going through the state monopoly. :-) Denatured it's available at special stores, but still not my first choice then, since the denaturing is also additives that I do not want left as residue.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sat, 17 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the drive. There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws. Remove the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Johnny
I got the one perfectly cleaned...but the motor appears to be failing at times and putting a cartridge in seals its fate. If I start using it beyond the first foot or so I'd be fine...so long as I never want to REMOVE the cartridge.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
Ethanol is denatured w ith methanol. If you'd drink it your eyesight goes on the blink, as does your liver and your brain.
Ethanol or isopropranol are both suitable solvents.
Methanol would do as well but is more poisonous.
The oxidation reaction of alcohols to aldehyde or ketones doesn't readily occur at room temperature and pressure.
Verzonden vanaf mijn BlackBerry 10-smartphone.
Origineel bericht
Van: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
Verzonden: zaterdag 17 mei 2014 18:59
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] TK50 issues
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
On 2014-05-11 05:11, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening all,
Got a nice haul of equipment today...aside from the TK50 issues and the
smoking VT340 everything seems to be okay!
However:
CARTRIDGE PRESENT
HEAD AT TRACK ZERO
POSITIONED AT BOT
TRK NUMBER 00
LOGICAL TRACK NUMBER = 0.
PHYSICAL BLK# 0000
PHYSICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
LOGICAL BLK# 00
LOGICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
TAPE POSITION 000EFB
TAPE POSITION = 3835.
DRIVE STATE 035E
RD/WRT STATE 1937
OPERATION FLGS 0201
CNTRLR STATUS 0C
DRIVE ERROR
DRIVE ERR CODE 93
AMPLITUDE ON HEAD 2 TOO LOW
and an error about it being unable to find calibration track 2 on the
second drive lead me to believe the drives may be faulty. The leader
isn't broken and I've reattached it to the arm on the one where it had
come off.
How would I do about cleaning one? Are the drives bad and a cleaning
wouldn't help?
(Yes, I tried multiple cartridges)
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the drive.
There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws. Remove
the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Try ethanol instead! "Rubbing" ethanol is available at most drug stores
along side isopropanol. This is, of course, denatured so that it can not
(or should not) be consumed. If you want the purest, off to the liquor
store and get yoruself a bottle of grain alcohol (Everclear is one brand
names of pure grain alcohol). It's what I use simply because I've never
sussed out what is used as the denaturing addative with the drug store's
ethanol.
Isopropanol can oxidize producing a ketone. The ketone that it oxidizes
into is acetone. Not what I would prefer to have on the rubber (real or
otherwise) conponents nor to come in contact with my tapes. Depending on
what is gunked up in your TK50, some of those chemicals may suffice as a
catalyst in the oxidation thereof.
I do know that the tech wipes (small pouches with alcohol dampened cloth
or paper) we used back in the day were ethanol based. Perhaps, for this
very reason?
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
On 2014-05-11 05:11, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening all,
Got a nice haul of equipment today...aside from the TK50 issues and the
smoking VT340 everything seems to be okay!
However:
CARTRIDGE PRESENT
HEAD AT TRACK ZERO
POSITIONED AT BOT
TRK NUMBER 00
LOGICAL TRACK NUMBER = 0.
PHYSICAL BLK# 0000
PHYSICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
LOGICAL BLK# 00
LOGICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
TAPE POSITION 000EFB
TAPE POSITION = 3835.
DRIVE STATE 035E
RD/WRT STATE 1937
OPERATION FLGS 0201
CNTRLR STATUS 0C
DRIVE ERROR
DRIVE ERR CODE 93
AMPLITUDE ON HEAD 2 TOO LOW
and an error about it being unable to find calibration track 2 on the
second drive lead me to believe the drives may be faulty. The leader
isn't broken and I've reattached it to the arm on the one where it had
come off.
How would I do about cleaning one? Are the drives bad and a cleaning
wouldn't help?
(Yes, I tried multiple cartridges)
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the drive.
There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws. Remove
the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Try ethanol instead! "Rubbing" ethanol is available at most drug stores
along side isopropanol. This is, of course, denatured so that it can not
(or should not) be consumed. If you want the purest, off to the liquor
store and get yoruself a bottle of grain alcohol (Everclear is one brand
names of pure grain alcohol). It's what I use simply because I've never
sussed out what is used as the denaturing addative with the drug store's
ethanol.
Isopropanol can oxidize producing a ketone. The ketone that it oxidizes
into is acetone. Not what I would prefer to have on the rubber (real or
otherwise) conponents nor to come in contact with my tapes. Depending on
what is gunked up in your TK50, some of those chemicals may suffice as a
catalyst in the oxidation thereof.
I do know that the tech wipes (small pouches with alcohol dampened cloth
or paper) we used back in the day were ethanol based. Perhaps, for this
very reason?
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 2014-05-11 05:11, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Evening all,
Got a nice haul of equipment today...aside from the TK50 issues and the
smoking VT340 everything seems to be okay!
However:
CARTRIDGE PRESENT
HEAD AT TRACK ZERO
POSITIONED AT BOT
TRK NUMBER 00
LOGICAL TRACK NUMBER = 0.
PHYSICAL BLK# 0000
PHYSICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
LOGICAL BLK# 00
LOGICAL BLOCK NUMBER = 0.
TAPE POSITION 000EFB
TAPE POSITION = 3835.
DRIVE STATE 035E
RD/WRT STATE 1937
OPERATION FLGS 0201
CNTRLR STATUS 0C
DRIVE ERROR
DRIVE ERR CODE 93
AMPLITUDE ON HEAD 2 TOO LOW
and an error about it being unable to find calibration track 2 on the
second drive lead me to believe the drives may be faulty. The leader
isn't broken and I've reattached it to the arm on the one where it had
come off.
How would I do about cleaning one? Are the drives bad and a cleaning
wouldn't help?
(Yes, I tried multiple cartridges)
Others have replied, but anyway.
Yes, you need to clean the TK50. Almost certain that is your problem.
And cleaning them is easy. Open the box, so that you can see the drive. There is a cover plate over the drive, fastened by four screws. Remove the cover plate and you'll see the head, the rollers, and the pickup hub.
Use iso-propanol and a swab, and just clean the head.
Reassemble, and you're done.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
DECtec mailing list
http://dectec.info
To unsubscribe from this list see page at: http://dectec.info/mailman/listinfo/dectec_dectec.info
On 2014-05-15 23:56, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 05/15/2014 05:48 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
I need the /physical/ drive size! Different systems give me different
sizes.
This, of course, should not happen. The host should query the drive
for its size, in blocks...I don't know why a given host OS would give
you different numbers.
It is listed as 2G...the MicroVAX 3100 I wrote it with claims it's ~570M
If it's an early MicroVAX-3100, and you're frobbing that drive via its
ROM-based monitor, that code is limited to 21-bit block numbers. Later
machines use 32-bit block numbers.
And of course, as soon as you have booted, the driver of the OS is used instead, and all I know of use 32-bit block numbers at that point, so this limitation is only really relevant during booting, and not running.
(And if you can guarantee that all operations in the boot stage hits the first 2G of the disk, it works fine to boot from larger disks on a 3100 as well.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-17 04:13, John Wilson wrote:
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Blocks.
512-byte?
Yes. Unless you have an RA60/RA8X (and maybe RA9X?) drive from a KL10,
in which case MSCP supports 576-byte blocks too. But really just yes.
As far as I can remember, only the RA81 and RA60 supported 576 byte sectors. And only with HSC50 with a not-too-modern version of software.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Blocks.
512-byte?
Yes. Unless you have an RA60/RA8X (and maybe RA9X?) drive from a KL10,
in which case MSCP supports 576-byte blocks too. But really just yes.
John Wilson
D Bit
