A MicroVAX-II (BA123), NetBSD, dd, NFS, and about 45 minutes... Painful, but it works! What can I say, I'm a sucker for the old hardware. :-)
-Steve
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Bob Armstrong
Sent: Sat 1/7/2012 09:31
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Actually, it's both! :-) When $ is not an issue I run the real thing,
otherwise it is running SimH.
How do you keep the two images synchronized?
Bob
Actually, it's both! :-) When $ is not an issue I run the real thing, otherwise it is running SimH.
I will try to take a look at this tomorrow.
-Steve
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Abene
Sent: Fri 1/6/2012 20:59
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
OK, so assuming that PLUTO is simh and not real hardware, all that's
needed is the aforementioned patch...
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
PLUTO:: is running V10.1
-Steve
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Abene
Sent: Fri 1/6/2012 19:10
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
That said, anyone running v8 or higher? I'm running v8.0-6.
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:33 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
Nope. DECnet/E V2.0 goes with RSTS/E V7.1 (or some later versions, I'm not sure when V2.1 kicked in). Note also that V2.0 is DECnet Phase III, which means you have to pay attention to the limitations that introduces when you tie it into a Phase IV network.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:21 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each
buffer that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer.
Sorry, I did say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided
to leave it out to emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a
packet based protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the
higher layers rely on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data
stream to indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send
to the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with
DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at
the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to
talk to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if
the other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work
because the character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You
could have it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else
entirely. If the former it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it
would still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec,
and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support
for RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is
quite simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says,
the result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky
one is the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back
packets. I wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons
one of them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called)
that could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list?
It would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running
RSTS/E v8 (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS
before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have
DECnet is via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the
DMC11 device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the
bytes sent to/from the device over a socket. We have used the
SIMH emulation to connect my friend to HECnet over a
(simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence
<tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
OK, so assuming that PLUTO is simh and not real hardware, all that's
needed is the aforementioned patch...
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Steve Davidson <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
PLUTO:: is running V10.1
-Steve
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Abene
Sent: Fri 1/6/2012 19:10
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
That said, anyone running v8 or higher? I'm running v8.0-6.
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:33 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
Nope. DECnet/E V2.0 goes with RSTS/E V7.1 (or some later versions, I'm not sure when V2.1 kicked in). Note also that V2.0 is DECnet Phase III, which means you have to pay attention to the limitations that introduces when you tie it into a Phase IV network.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:21 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each
buffer that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer.
Sorry, I did say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided
to leave it out to emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a
packet based protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the
higher layers rely on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data
stream to indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send
to the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with
DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at
the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to
talk to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if
the other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work
because the character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You
could have it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else
entirely. If the former it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it
would still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec,
and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support
for RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is
quite simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says,
the result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky
one is the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back
packets. I wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons
one of them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called)
that could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list?
It would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running
RSTS/E v8 (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS
before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have
DECnet is via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the
DMC11 device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the
bytes sent to/from the device over a socket. We have used the
SIMH emulation to connect my friend to HECnet over a
(simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence
<tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
PLUTO:: is running V10.1
-Steve
________________________________
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Mark Abene
Sent: Fri 1/6/2012 19:10
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
That said, anyone running v8 or higher? I'm running v8.0-6.
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:33 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
Nope. DECnet/E V2.0 goes with RSTS/E V7.1 (or some later versions, I'm not sure when V2.1 kicked in). Note also that V2.0 is DECnet Phase III, which means you have to pay attention to the limitations that introduces when you tie it into a Phase IV network.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:21 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each
buffer that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer.
Sorry, I did say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided
to leave it out to emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a
packet based protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the
higher layers rely on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data
stream to indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send
to the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with
DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at
the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to
talk to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if
the other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work
because the character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You
could have it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else
entirely. If the former it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it
would still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec,
and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support
for RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is
quite simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says,
the result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky
one is the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back
packets. I wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons
one of them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called)
that could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list?
It would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running
RSTS/E v8 (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS
before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have
DECnet is via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the
DMC11 device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the
bytes sent to/from the device over a socket. We have used the
SIMH emulation to connect my friend to HECnet over a
(simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence
<tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
That said, anyone running v8 or higher? I'm running v8.0-6.
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:33 PM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
Nope. DECnet/E V2.0 goes with RSTS/E V7.1 (or some later versions, I'm not sure when V2.1 kicked in). Note also that V2.0 is DECnet Phase III, which means you have to pay attention to the limitations that introduces when you tie it into a Phase IV network.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:21 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each
buffer that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer.
Sorry, I did say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided
to leave it out to emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a
packet based protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the
higher layers rely on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data
stream to indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send
to the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with
DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at
the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to
talk to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if
the other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work
because the character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You
could have it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else
entirely. If the former it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it
would still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec,
and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support
for RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is
quite simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says,
the result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky
one is the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back
packets. I wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons
one of them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called)
that could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list?
It would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running
RSTS/E v8 (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS
before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have
DECnet is via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the
DMC11 device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the
bytes sent to/from the device over a socket. We have used the
SIMH emulation to connect my friend to HECnet over a
(simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence
<tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
On 6 Jan 2012, at 00:16, Johnny Billquist wrote:
STAR69 is in serious yo-yo mode as seen from MIM right now. Anyone know why?
For some reason my router had become un-configured and wasn't opening port
4711 for the bridge. It might have been causing traffic problems and time-outs.
Also it may explain the lack of connectivity from other nodes, but I'm going
to look over it with Steve D anyway to see what's awry if anything.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Nope. DECnet/E V2.0 goes with RSTS/E V7.1 (or some later versions, I'm not sure when V2.1 kicked in). Note also that V2.0 is DECnet Phase III, which means you have to pay attention to the limitations that introduces when you tie it into a Phase IV network.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:21 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each
buffer that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer.
Sorry, I did say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided
to leave it out to emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a
packet based protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the
higher layers rely on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data
stream to indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send
to the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with
DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at
the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to
talk to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if
the other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work
because the character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You
could have it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else
entirely. If the former it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it
would still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec,
and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support
for RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is
quite simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says,
the result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky
one is the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back
packets. I wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons
one of them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called)
that could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list?
It would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running
RSTS/E v8 (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS
before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have
DECnet is via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the
DMC11 device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the
bytes sent to/from the device over a socket. We have used the
SIMH emulation to connect my friend to HECnet over a
(simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence
<tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
I don't recall offhand if the DECnet/E 2.0 tape image floating around
is compatible with RSTS/E v7. Can anyone else comment?
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Kevin Reynolds <tpresence at hotmail.com> wrote:
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
From: phiber at phiber.com
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each buffer
that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer. Sorry, I
did
say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided to leave it out
to
emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a packet
based
protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the higher layers rely
on
that.
So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data stream
to
indicate where the packet boundaries are.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send to
the
other
end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with DDCMP
itself.
Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at the
actual
hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
synchronous
serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to talk
to, a
DMC
(or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if the
other
end
speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work because the
character framing doesn't match.
That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You could
have
it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else entirely. If the
former
it
would
talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it would
still
work
for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec, and
implement
what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support for
RSTS
V10
(based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is quite
simple
and
the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says, the
result
WILL
interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky one
is
the
DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
remember
is that the high speed version can't handle back to back packets. I
wish
I could
contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons one of
them
is that
it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
looked at
a
Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called) that
could
hook
into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Mark Abene
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list? It
would
be great
to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running RSTS/E v8
(for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS before "the
pollution").
RSTS/E v8
doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have DECnet is
via
a
(previously unemulated)
DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
-Mark
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the DMC11
device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the bytes sent
to/from the device over a socket. We have used the SIMH emulation
to
connect my friend to HECnet over a (simulated) DMC11.
The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is
using
DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
Regards
Rob
On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence <tpresence at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hey guys,
Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet
using
DDCMP?
Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
Kevin
I have RSTS/E but its v7.
Kevin
> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:29:01 -0500
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
> From: phiber at phiber.com
> To: hecnet at update.uu.se
>
> Assuming Rob makes his patch to SIMH available, is there anyone on
> HECnet willing to test peering with my RSTS/E setup?
>
> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Rob Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Yes, you are right, I do add a 2-byte length to the start of each buffer
> > that I send so that the other end can reassemble the buffer. Sorry, I did
> > say this in an earlier draft of the email, but decided to leave it out to
> > emphasise the simplicity of the implementation.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
> >> On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
> >> Sent: 04 January 2012 22:15
> >> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> >> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
> >>
> >> I assume there has to be a bit more to it, because DDCMP is a packet based
> >> protocol (not a stream protocol as TCP is) and the higher layers rely on
> > that.
> >> So there presumably is some form of framing in the emulated data stream to
> >> indicate where the packet boundaries are.
> >>
> >> paul
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
> >> On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:11 PM
> >> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> >> Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
> >>
> >> All I do in SIMH is to take the data bytes each end wants to send to the
> > other
> >> end and send them over a socket, so I don't get involved with DDCMP
> > itself.
> >> Both ends have to be SIMH for this to work. I don't do anything at the
> > actual
> >> hardware level, although that would be nice. I think you can get
> > synchronous
> >> serial cards for the PC but they are quite expensive.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
> >> > On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
> >> > Sent: 03 January 2012 21:18
> >> > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> >> > Subject: RE: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
> >> >
> >> > DMC-11 speaks DDCMP V3.1 (give or take some bugs in the "high speed"
> >> > version). But that's sync only. Depending on what you want to talk
> >> > to, a
> >> DMC
> >> > (or its relatives DMR-11, DMP-11, or DMV-11) may not help; if the
> >> > other
> >> end
> >> > speaks DDCMP over an async link (UART) then it won't work because the
> >> > character framing doesn't match.
> >> >
> >> > That said, I wonder what it means to emulate a DMC-11. You could have
> >> > it speak DDCMP over a UART, or something else entirely. If the former
> >> > it
> >> would
> >> > talk to another DDCMP node; if the latter it would not but it would
> >> > still
> >> work
> >> > for tying one emulated DMC-11 to another.
> >> >
> >> > If you want DDCMP, one approach is to get a copy of the spec, and
> >> implement
> >> > what it says. That works; it is how I implemented DDCMP support for
> >> > RSTS
> >> V10
> >> > (based on an earlier version based on V9.6). The protocol is quite
> >> > simple
> >> and
> >> > the spec is well enough written that, if you do what it says, the
> >> > result
> >> WILL
> >> > interoperate with hardware such as the DMR-11. The only tricky one is
> >> > the
> >> > DMC-11 because it has some undocumented bugs; the main one I
> >> remember
> >> > is that the high speed version can't handle back to back packets. I
> >> > wish
> >> I could
> >> > contribute the code I wrote but I can't, for various reasons one of
> >> > them
> >> is that
> >> > it's a RSTS device driver and written in 100% assembly language.
> >> >
> >> > It would not be hard to do a version for other platforms; I once
> >> > looked at
> >> a
> >> > Linux terminal protocol handler (forgot what that is called) that
> >> > could
> >> hook
> >> > into DECnet/Linux. Didn't get far enough on that, though.
> >> >
> >> > paul
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
> >> > On Behalf Of Mark Abene
> >> > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 6:06 PM
> >> > To: hecnet at update.uu.se
> >> > Subject: Re: [HECnet] Hecnet and DDCMP
> >> >
> >> > Jarratt, did you make this publicly available on the SIMH list? It
> >> > would
> >> be great
> >> > to have a DMC11 device emulated, since I insist on running RSTS/E v8
> >> > (for historical reasons... it was the last real RSTS before "the
> > pollution").
> >> RSTS/E v8
> >> > doesn't have ethernet support, so the only way I could have DECnet is
> >> > via
> >> a
> >> > (previously unemulated)
> >> > DMC11 interface. Does yours work well?
> >> >
> >> > -Mark
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Jarratt RMA
> >> > <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > Working with a friend, I have written a SIMH emulation of the DMC11
> >> > > device, so you can do this with SIMH. It tunnels the bytes sent
> >> > > to/from the device over a socket. We have used the SIMH emulation to
> >> > > connect my friend to HECnet over a (simulated) DMC11.
> >> > >
> >> > > The bit I am not entirely sure about is to what extent this is using
> >> > > DDCMP as I don't have a full understanding of DDCMP.
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards
> >> > >
> >> > > Rob
> >> > > On 31 December 2011 18:46, The Presence <tpresence at hotmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hey guys,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Has anyone worked out a mechanism to connect a node to hecnet using
> >> > DDCMP?
> >> > >> Perhaps some tunneling technology over IP, or virtualized serial?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Kevin
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >
