On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:09, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 20:04, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
Ok, so I open up an SSH connection to CHIMPY.
1. Resize the window
2. SET TERM/INQ
3. Run EDIT
Terminal.app the new dimensions are used, xterm is still 80x25..
I'm sure there a really intuitive .Xresource somewhere that I need to set to enable this, but as I haven't been using xterm for 20 years like you mentioned before, I find this rather irritating (also, how DOES pasting stuff into xterm work anyway)?
Uh.. No... Since SET TERM/INQ do not tell the size of the window. And a VT100 cannot report such things that way, of course xterm can't either.
What you actually see/get in this case is that the resizing itself can be passed over the link between xterm and the ssh server. And yes, xterm can and will report the size change (assuming the conditions are correct).
If you want more details on how this works, and how things needs to be set up (assuming you are still interested in using xterm) send me a mail, and we can go through details outside the list. This is getting rather off-topic for HECnet. :-)
Yeah, don't worry - I won't be using xterm as simple stuff that works out of the box on Terminal.app seems to fail on xterm for me. I don't really have the desire or need to learn how to use it properly either :)
Now DTTERM, that's terminal emulator I want to get to know better.
Sampsa
On 2014-01-05 20:06, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Fair enough, so there isn't a specific issue, it's just vaguely "buggy"?
Uh? No. I said "DECCOLM does not clear the window". Did you not see that mail? I can list a bunch of other bugs as well, if you really want to, but for me DECCOLM is a showstopper.
I'll stick to Terminal.app :)
Feel free.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-01-05 20:04, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
Ok, so I open up an SSH connection to CHIMPY.
1. Resize the window
2. SET TERM/INQ
3. Run EDIT
Terminal.app the new dimensions are used, xterm is still 80x25..
I'm sure there a really intuitive .Xresource somewhere that I need to set to enable this, but as I haven't been using xterm for 20 years like you mentioned before, I find this rather irritating (also, how DOES pasting stuff into xterm work anyway)?
Uh.. No... Since SET TERM/INQ do not tell the size of the window. And a VT100 cannot report such things that way, of course xterm can't either.
What you actually see/get in this case is that the resizing itself can be passed over the link between xterm and the ssh server. And yes, xterm can and will report the size change (assuming the conditions are correct).
If you want more details on how this works, and how things needs to be set up (assuming you are still interested in using xterm) send me a mail, and we can go through details outside the list. This is getting rather off-topic for HECnet. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Fair enough, so there isn't a specific issue, it's just vaguely "buggy"?
I'll stick to Terminal.app :)
Sampsa
On 2014-01-05 20:02, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Your problem is that you are too stuck in just one way of doing things. So I guess it makes more sense for you to use some OS X application. But I do know that all that I have tested (and that probably includes any you are trying to play with now) all are pretty buggy when it comes to actual functionality. They look pretty, but they are pigs, even if they have lipstick.
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
Already answered that one, as far I am concerned. Your requirements might not be the same as mine, so you'll have to decide yourself.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 5 Jan 2014, at 21:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
Ok, so I open up an SSH connection to CHIMPY.
1. Resize the window
2. SET TERM/INQ
3. Run EDIT
Terminal.app the new dimensions are used, xterm is still 80x25..
I'm sure there a really intuitive .Xresource somewhere that I need to set to enable this, but as I haven't been using xterm for 20 years like you mentioned before, I find this rather irritating (also, how DOES pasting stuff into xterm work anyway)?
Sampsa
Your problem is that you are too stuck in just one way of doing things. So I guess it makes more sense for you to use some OS X application. But I do know that all that I have tested (and that probably includes any you are trying to play with now) all are pretty buggy when it comes to actual functionality. They look pretty, but they are pigs, even if they have lipstick.
I am happy to use various tools if there's a sane reason to do it - however I fail to see any concrete benefit of using xterm over Terminal.app on OS X. Again, what is the show-stopping bug that should make me swap over?
On 2014-01-05 19:55, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Terminal.app seems to have worked fine for the last 6 years or so for me :)
What is the single show-stopping bug in Terminal.app that should make me move over to xTerm?
For me it is that it will not clear the window when the DECCOLM escape sequence is received. I have plenty of applications that depends on that behavior. I could go on with more bugs as well, but it just sucks.
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 20:44, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 19:03, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Actually forget, xterm is unusable, even basic copy-paste between OS X apps and xterm doesn't work.
It works just fine.
I'll hack out a keyboard mapping later for a slightly more modern terminal.
Good luck with your buggy "modern" terminal.
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 19:54, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
OK, xterm works pretty well after some investigation..
I've never before attempted to change the setting of an old-skool X program and it looks like an absolute nightmare. Could any of you gurus produce an .xtermrc with a beige background and black text and font size set to 14?
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 19:13, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Actually xTerm has SOME of the mappings defined by default, does anyone have a decent .xtermrc file for all of them?
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 19:05, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 17:53, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-04 21:08, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Been playing remapping some "slime slim, full size Apple" kbd but the results aren't great. Does anybody have a canonical list of VT220 escape codes, preferably in hex (I think my term's escape sequence is broken)..
Why don't you use xterm? The mappings are already correct. And as a bonus, you actually get a VT100 emulation with less bugs.
Where are the config files for xterm stored? I want it to look less 1982 and have a font that doesn't require a microscope to read.
sampsa
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-01-05 19:46, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Does this resize the terminal window when you resize the window on OS X?
Not sure I understand the question.
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 20:43, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 18:13, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Actually xTerm has SOME of the mappings defined by default, does anyone have a decent .xtermrc file for all of them?
Everything works correct for me.
I don't have any .xtermrc. Didn't even know it used one...
However, I start xterm with the following:
---8<---
#!/bin/tcsh
unsetenv LC_CTYPE
unsetenv LANG
xterm +sf +sp -aw -ut -132 -ti vt220 -sb -sl 500 -name rsx &
---8<---
And my X resources:
iMac:/Users/bqt> cat .Xresources
! *.hold: true
*.vt100.decTerminalID: 220
*.vt100.c132: true
! *.vt100.deleteIsDEL: true
*.vt100.saveLines: 1000
*.ptyInitialErase: true
*.backarrowKeyIsErase: true
*.backarrowKey: false
*.sunKeyboard: true
*.rightScrollBar: true
xterm.vt100.activeIcon: false
xterm.vt100.multiScroll: true
local.utmpInhibit: false
local.title: Terminal
local.vt100.loginShell: false
local.vt100.scrollBar: true
remote.utmpInhibit: false
remote.title: Terminal
remote.vt100.loginShell: true
remote.vt100.scrollBar: true
xunix.utmpInhibit: true
xunix.title: Xunix terminal
xunix.vt100.loginShell: false
xunix.vt100.scrollBar: true
rsx.utmpInhibit: true
rsx.title: RSX terminal
rsx.vt100.loginShell: false
rsx.vt100.scrollBar: true
rsx.sunKeyboard: true
vms.utmpInhibit: true
vms.title: VMS terminal
vms.vt100.loginShell: false
vms.vt100.scrollBar: true
iMac:/Users/bqt>
Johnny
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +44 7961 149465
On 5 Jan 2014, at 19:05, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 17:53, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-04 21:08, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Been playing remapping some "slime slim, full size Apple" kbd but the results aren't great. Does anybody have a canonical list of VT220 escape codes, preferably in hex (I think my term's escape sequence is broken)..
Why don't you use xterm? The mappings are already correct. And as a bonus, you actually get a VT100 emulation with less bugs.
Where are the config files for xterm stored? I want it to look less 1982 and have a font that doesn't require a microscope to read.
sampsa
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-01-05 19:44, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 5 Jan 2014, at 20:40, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2014-01-05 18:01, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Yeah, thinking of going that route, even though Xterm does look like crap and isn't really well integrated into the rest of OS X.
Looks like crap? Not sure I agree with that. It does not have a lot of eye candy and similar drivel. Instead it just looks like a terminal - which is what I think it should look like.
Ok, that's a tad harsh, but let's say it doesn't visually integrate well with the rest of the UI. If I didn't care about this stuff I wouldn't be on an OS X box, but seriously, the xterm UI is abysmal (Want to change the font or say background colour? Oh, edit .Xresources - WTF?!?).
It's an X application. Of course it don't really match up with the MAC window system, which is not X.
Oh and there's so simple way of doing copy/cut/paste between it and other apps - I'll stick to Terminal.app / iTerm which (I just found out) support the keymappings out of the box too, probably because they used the same code base as xterm.
There is a very easy way. X have a clipboard, and xterm (like any sane X program) use it. Very consistent, and very usable. Much better than all the sucky clipboards of OS X or Windows... But I guess it all depends on where you come from. I used X before any of the other crap even existed, so the way X do things are the natural way for me.
What you need to figure out is how to set up your X application to integrate the X clipboard with the OS X window manager clipboard. I use Xquartz, and it does it just fine. I might have had to do some setting up of Xquartz initially. Don't remember anymore.
Your problem is that you are too stuck in just one way of doing things. So I guess it makes more sense for you to use some OS X application. But I do know that all that I have tested (and that probably includes any you are trying to play with now) all are pretty buggy when it comes to actual functionality. They look pretty, but they are pigs, even if they have lipstick.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
