On 2014-01-01 14:19, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't
normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a
separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes,
if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do
that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again
later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
While it is extremely unlikely that I will ever run RSX-11, the
above ability surprises me. Please clarify to make sure that
I understand. It is my impression that RSX-11 requires
all device drivers to be LOADed at boot time and always
be kept LOADed. TSX-Plus has this requirement and I
guess I assumed that RSX-11 was similar.
Based on your information, I understand that RSX-11 does
support a device driver UNLOAD and REMOVE commands
(or whatever syntax is used in RSX-11 since I just used the
RT-11 syntax). So please confirm.
Yes. That is correct. You can load and unload device drivers at runtime. That is actually a very important design feature in RSX.
So your understanding about RSX have been totally wrong.
Device drivers that are currently in use can not be unloaded, however. Which means that the boot device can't be unloaded, for instance.
In M+ the ability is even better, as device driver loading and unloading is not related to devices being online or offline.
Not sure exactly what your distinction between unload and remove is.
In RSX terms, you LOAD and UNLOAD device drivers. In 11M, an implicit online of a device is done when you load it, and offline is done on a device before unloading it. In M+ the offline and online steps are separate commands, which just requires that a device driver is loaded.
Even more fun is M+ is that device drivers do not need to be recompiled if you recompile the kernel. Device drivers are totally independent of the kernel.
Also, file systems are also separate, and handled by something called an ACP, which is a separate task. This means that you can have different types of file systems on different disks.
ACPs hook into device drivers, but device drivers have no clue about ACPs.
In respect of RSTS/E, is this possible as well or does RSTS/E
have the same requirement as TSX-Plus?
I think RSTS/E is less flexible, from what I can remember.
Johnny
>Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
While it is extremely unlikely that I will ever run RSX-11, the
above ability surprises me. Please clarify to make sure that
I understand. It is my impression that RSX-11 requires
all device drivers to be LOADed at boot time and always
be kept LOADed. TSX-Plus has this requirement and I
guess I assumed that RSX-11 was similar.
Based on your information, I understand that RSX-11 does
support a device driver UNLOAD and REMOVE commands
(or whatever syntax is used in RSX-11 since I just used the
RT-11 syntax). So please confirm.
In respect of RSTS/E, is this possible as well or does RSTS/E
have the same requirement as TSX-Plus?
Jerome Fine
On 2014-01-01 08:33, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do
that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation
from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect
devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX
system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick
you'd like to do? :-)
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
On the 11/74 you more or less had this, in the form of hotplugging whole bus segments. One a bus segment was disconnected, you could power it off, and remove controllers if you wanted.
Johnny
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
Officially, it does (if you have a DT03 or DT07 bus switch).
Pretty rare though...
John Wilson
D Bit
On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do
that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation
from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect
devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX
system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick
you'd like to do? :-)
Now if only UNIBUS hotplug/hotremove existed. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-01-01 00:52, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>John Wilson wrote:
The order of dependence on strictly working (and/or accurately emulated)
hardware goes: RT => RSX => RSTS. So the fact that something works
with RT proves *nothing*! (I've learned this the hard way so many
times.)
Of course, looked at another way, it's nice of RT to be willing to run
on hardware that's not long for this world...
... OR the CSR for the hardware and the device driver do not
match. Fortunately, RT-11 allows the user to change the
CSR after the boot (for a data device obviously). After that,
the user can INSTALL and LOAD.
RT-11 also supports UNLOAD and REMOVE if a user
needs to power down a data hard drive and physically replace
that drive with a different hard drive. This is really especially
helpful with MSCP devices. If the user has ONLY the single
controller to boot RT-11, VM: can be used to hold the few
essential files required by the operating system. At that point,
the hard drive on an MSCP device can have the power
and cable removed (after the RT-11 UNLOAD and REMOVE)
and a different hard drive substituted (followed by the RT-11
INSTALL and LOAD commands). Try doing that on RSX-11
or RSTS/E.
RSX can boot from virtual devices.
Also, you can load and unload device drivers in RSX, but you don't normally do that just to bring devices offline or online. That is a separate operation from loading and unloading device drivers. But yes, if you want to disconnect devices, buses, CPUs or memory, you can do that just fine on a running RSX system. And bring them online again later, if you want to. Any other trick you'd like to do? :-)
Johnny
On Tue, 31 Dec 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
...or rather, sidestepped. I asked about this issue yesterday in case
anyone had a quick "problem X can definitely cause that" response,
before diving in with XXDP, etc. I checked power and configuration, all
good, so I...dove in with XXDP.
I have three 11/24 CPUs. Two of them drop to ODT when I run the JKDA
diag, for the F11 MMU. Those two also report errors in every MS11-P
board that I have (about eight) at the end of every 16KB "page" of
memory during the ZMSP test. The third board passes all tests, and runs
RSX11M's ACF without hanging. It's running sysgen now, and I expect the
new executive to boot fine.
Aren't memory errors annoying? They cause problems somewhere...but not
elsewhere!
Something is clearly up with those other two boards.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
