HECnet September 2013

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35 participants
579 discussions

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 29/09/2013, a les 20:36, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea.. This is a little bit unfair for the blue guys :) ISPF is far more than a set of screens to invoke TSO commands. The panels (that's how ISPF screens are called) are just a part of the whole thing. ISPF integrates with TSO, so we are talking about: - The TSO command language (CLIST language) and also the REXX language. - The panel facility. - The skeleton facility. To follow an example, the "background" option in the ISPF main menu takes the user to another menu where he chooses the language he wants to use. When the user chooses an option, a CLIST (a TSO command procedure) is fired, which loads and displays an ISPF panel. The fields of that pannel are bound to variables in the CLIST, which _could_ also be bound to the user profile (so the values of those variables are persistent). The user fills the pannel (with the source location, the output dataset and the compiler options) and then some magic begins. ISPF loads what is called a "skeleton", which is a file with placeholders. That skeleton is a JCL deck which contains all the "cards" neede to compile and link the program. ISPF replaces the placeholders with the variable values and then submits the JCL deck for batch execution. It is quite easy to "simulate" the ISPF panels (you just need DCL to do it, I did it when I worked with DEC machines in a mostly IBM-centric company), but that would be just the user interface. The APIs provided with ISPF are way beyond that... Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea..

11 years, 1 month

IOS images

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! Here's an interesting question: How are these images delivered to the interested router? TFTP or ftp to the flash. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: http://wiggum.4amlunch.net/hecnet/ios/ 12.4 and 15.1 images for the 1841 router. Unless the router is maxed on ram I'd say use the 12.4 image. I also have 181x (both 12.4 and 15.1) and 2800 (both 12.4 and 15.1) images if anyone needs those. -brian -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

AFAIK the only common thing was that both the TU56 and TU58 were block addressable tapes. Our PDP 11/40 ran RT-11 V 4. From an RK05 unless we expected visitors, then it ran V2 from DECtape I. Spinning reels always impressed them. DECtape II has never impressed anyone at all, beyond the speed it could let seasoned system managers fall asleep... Van: Clem Cole Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 15:44 Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: Sampsa Laine Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS? On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 15:44, Clem Cole wrote: On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " You are right about that thing, but that was a "DECtape II". No relation to a DECtape. And yes, that device sucked in more ways than most. That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. Indeed. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-09-29 15:25, Sampsa Laine wrote: VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Oh, bummer, always wanted to play around with DECtape :) So, get a real computer. :-) And simh is not a DECtape. The easiest way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX would of course be DECnet, but in case you wanted to do it on a physical storage medium, the popular choices were RL02 or 9-track tape. But potentially, RK06, RK07, RM02, RM03, RM05, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RA60 were also pretty usable. Let's say I run RSX-11 on the PDP-11, what file system (I believe the PDP supports some level of Files-11) should I INIT the disks to? Can I INIT the disk on the RSX side and write to it on the VMS box? I don't remember the invocations in VMS, but yes, RSX uses Files-11, just like VMS. But more specifically, RSX uses ODS-1, while VMS uses ODS-2 or ODS-5. I think only VMS on VAX supported volumes using ODS-1. But pretty much all you need is for the volume to have the file system set up. Once that it done, you just mount it like any other volume in VMS, and away you go. You can initialize the file system on either RSX or VMS. As for DECNET: Yes, that's obviously the sane way to do it. This is more of a "do it for the sake of doing it" type of an idea.. :-) And don't forget floppies... True. Are there any 8" floppy emulators available on SIMH? :) I don't want to use anything boring.. No idea. I don't really get the point if you are just going to simulate the hardware anyway. But that is just me. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Clem Cole wrote: I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. That's a TU58 (I believe it was actually called "DECtape-II"). That's supported by pretty much all versions of VMS. The driver was removed from some of the recent versions, but it's easy to add back. The only special hardware (on the VAX side) required by the TU58 was a serial port, though. The traditional DECtape (those little reels of tape) was a different thing. Bob

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Sunday, September 29, 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-29 14:48, Sampsa Laine VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... sounds reasonable as I have forgotten but I thought vms may have supported the funky cartridge tape unit on the 750 console. I just remember it was a PITA to work with. I also remember b*tching about how brain dead it was in the lunchroom one day only to have the guy that wrote much if it sitting behind me - as Garrison Keiler says: "today's embarrassing moment is tomorrow's funny story. " That said, I agree as my memory was that 9-track was the traditional sneaker-net medium. -- Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny Billquist wrote: VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Not officially, but there was a driver in DECUS. Sorry, I don't have it though. Of course the only way to connect a TU56 to a real VAX would be to have a VAX model that supported a UBA (e.g. VAX-11/7xx, VAX-82/3xx, 86xx, and maybe one or two others) and a TC11. There wasn't a big demand for such a setup :-) Bob

11 years, 1 month

Slightly OT: DECTape support in SIMH VMS?

by sampsa＠mac.com

VMS have never supported DECtape, as far as I know... Oh, bummer, always wanted to play around with DECtape :) The easiest way to transfer files between a PDP-11 and VAX would of course be DECnet, but in case you wanted to do it on a physical storage medium, the popular choices were RL02 or 9-track tape. But potentially, RK06, RK07, RM02, RM03, RM05, RP04, RP05, RP06 and RA60 were also pretty usable. Let's say I run RSX-11 on the PDP-11, what file system (I believe the PDP supports some level of Files-11) should I INIT the disks to? Can I INIT the disk on the RSX side and write to it on the VMS box? As for DECNET: Yes, that's obviously the sane way to do it. This is more of a "do it for the sake of doing it" type of an idea.. And don't forget floppies... True. Are there any 8" floppy emulators available on SIMH? :) I don't want to use anything boring..

11 years, 1 month

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HECnet September 2013