HECnet September 2013

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35 participants
579 discussions

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

On 30/09/2013 08:38, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons wrote: El 30/09/2013, a les 9:17, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: On 30 Sep 2013, at 08:22, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: After thinking a little bit more, there is already a DEC equivalent to iSPF, complete with its panels, menuing system, file template system and (weird) scripting language. I'm thinking about ALLIN1 ;) I'd _LOVE_ to run ALLIN1 on my VAX cluster, as the hobbyist licenses apparently include a PAK for it. But I gather it's rather painful to install? It is. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES There isn't actually a license for ALL-IN-1 in the hobbyist packs. What you're seeing is license for clients rather than the application itself. I have a soft spot for ALL-IN-1 as I got quite familiar with it when I was working for British Gas and for the most part it worked well. Didn't play nicely with any other software very well. I have installed it on several VAXEN and it isn't too much of a PITA standalone. It is the integration with SMTP mail and other mail systems where I've always failed to get it working. Was funny sending some emails to comp.os.vms with it however. Got everyone's backs up with the overly verbose headers - INTERNAL MEMORANDUM etc. Proper old school ;) Mark. -- http://www.wickensonline.co.uk http://hecnet.eu http://declegacy.org.uk http://retrochallenge.net https://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo

11 years, 1 month

Connecting to HECnet from DEC Legacy 19-20 Oct

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 29/09/2013, a les 23:06, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> va escriure: To work behind a NAT box you'll need to be able to pass SNMP and GRE through to the DECbrouter. If you can do that you'll be golden. You can setup a ssh tunnel using vde, but then you will be linking both LANs at the data-link layer (you will be bridging into your home LAN, which can not be desirable). Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 30/09/2013, a les 9:17, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: On 30 Sep 2013, at 08:22, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: After thinking a little bit more, there is already a DEC equivalent to iSPF, complete with its panels, menuing system, file template system and (weird) scripting language. I'm thinking about ALLIN1 ;) I'd _LOVE_ to run ALLIN1 on my VAX cluster, as the hobbyist licenses apparently include a PAK for it. But I gather it's rather painful to install? It is. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Ha! Every time felt like the beginning! Van: Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Verzonden: maandag 30 september 2013 09:15 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :) El 29/09/2013, a les 22:26, Hans Vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> va escriure: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Oh, it is not that bad. It's a little bit like the Necromongers conversion in Chronicles of Riddick: it hurts just at the beginning. :) Van: Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 20:36 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :) Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea.. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 30 Sep 2013, at 08:22, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: After thinking a little bit more, there is already a DEC equivalent to iSPF, complete with its panels, menuing system, file template system and (weird) scripting language. I'm thinking about ALLIN1 ;) I'd _LOVE_ to run ALLIN1 on my VAX cluster, as the hobbyist licenses apparently include a PAK for it. But I gather it's rather painful to install? sampsa

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

El 29/09/2013, a les 22:26, Hans Vlems <hvlems at zonnet.nl> va escriure: It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human comprehension... Oh, it is not that bad. It's a little bit like the Necromongers conversion in Chronicles of Riddick: it hurts just at the beginning. :) Van: Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 20:36 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: [HECnet] Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :) Not sure how many of you guys know about the "simple" user interface that IBM developed for using TSO ("time sharing option", the interactive bit of MVS / OS/390 / z/OS) and it's called ISPF. It's basically a set of screens that invoke TSO commands on behalf of the user (mostly to compile / link programs, which is insanely complex on IBM systems for some reason). Anyway, I thought it might be amusing to write an ISPF clone and deploy it on CHIMPY - because I'm lazy I'm going to do it in Python (so it prob will never run on a VAX), but I'll let you guys know when it's finished. Basically I think I'll just define a "Panel Language" that is used to describe the menu and what DCL command to run if that option is chosen. If I feel particularly ambitious I might include 3270-like cursor key navigation of the panels as well :) NOTE: This is not a serious endeavour, more of a "wouldn't it be funny if this looked like a mainframe" type idea.. Jordi Guillaumes i Pons jg at jordi.guillaumes.name HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by hvlems＠zonnet.nl

Now that I understand fully! Van: Brian Hechinger Verzonden: zondag 29 september 2013 23:08 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :) On Sep 29, 2013, at 17:01, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: > On 09/29/2013 04:26 PM, Hans Vlems wrote: >> It is good fun but those panels kept me well away from IBM systems. >> AIX had something similar as an aid to system managers. I forgot its >> name but it was a blessing because the shell commands were beyond human >> comprehension... > > Smit (graphical) and smitty (textual). On one of the boxes at PSU when I was there renamed to smut and smutty. :) -brian

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

After thinking a little bit more, there is already a DEC equivalent to iSPF, complete with its panels, menuing system, file template system and (weird) scripting language. I'm thinking about ALLIN1 ;) <ducks for cover> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 29/09/2013, a les 21:24, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> va escriure: This is a little bit unfair for the blue guys :) ISPF is far more than a set of screens to invoke TSO commands. The panels (that's how ISPF screens are called) are just a part of the whole thing. ISPF integrates with TSO, so we are talking about: - The TSO command language (CLIST language) and also the REXX language. - The panel facility. - The skeleton facility. It is quite easy to "simulate" the ISPF panels (you just need DCL to do it, I did it when I worked with DEC machines in a mostly IBM-centric company), but that would be just the user interface. The APIs provided with ISPF are way beyond that... I was planning on developing a simple format for defining the panels, mapping the options to DCL and any params / switches they need. I am aware that ISPF can be used for way more than the basic IDE / sysop functions that it comes with by default, don't some ISVs actually build their software using ISPF panels as the interface? I just thought a IBM mainframe lookalike interface to VMS would be amusing if nothing else. Sampsa

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by sampsa＠mac.com

Yeah. I probably don't have a great sense of humor. I'm more of the hack-in-the-kernel type of guy. That is what I find really enjoyable... Make everything run and function smooth, tidy and efficient. I also have a very strict ordering and system to my records, my books and god knows what else... And I like straight angles when I draw on a paper. :-) Thinking about this and like Brian said it doesn't necessarily have to entirely be a joke project, I could build a nice-ish menuing system for new users on CHIMPY who don't know VMS well (or at all) And yes, I have checked out the myriad of existing menu systems out there, did not find any of them that great (half of them won't run on Alphas, bugs, insane config files etc). But a nice menu for new users to get them started (edit files, compile/link/run source code, run dcl etc)? That might actually be useful.. I do get a lot of newbies on CHIMPY that log on once or twice, but VMS confuses them so they disappear after a while :) sampsa

11 years, 1 month

Humour value alternative to DCL - a port OS/390 ISPF to VMS :)

by b4＠gewt.net

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-09-30 03:30, Sampsa Laine wrote: On 30 Sep 2013, at 03:27, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: No. Johnny Different sense of humour I guess, and I AM bored out of mind here (in Egypt right now, can't even scuba dive due to shoulder injury, curfew at night, everyones left town more or less).. I'm in village with a few hundred beduins + their camels and goats it feels like. Decent 3G coverage though. Yeah. I probably don't have a great sense of humor. I'm more of the hack-in-the-kernel type of guy. That is what I find really enjoyable... Make everything run and function smooth, tidy and efficient. I also have a very strict ordering and system to my records, my books and god knows what else... And I like straight angles when I draw on a paper. :-) Johnny I bet you'll laugh at "when the all linux kernel modules are well written and proper" though. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

11 years, 1 month

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HECnet September 2013