On Apr 20, 2013, at 10:14 AM, G. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 18:11:51 +0000, you wrote:
In reading the Phase II NSP spec...
Are those specs publicly available on the Internet?
Thanks,
G.
Yes, they are. Look in http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/ for AA-D599A-TC through AA-D602A-TC. Those are the Phase II specs.
paul
On Apr 20, 2013, at 12:34 AM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
Did they call ANF-10 DECnet phase 1?
I don't believe so. DECnet Phase 1 was said to be implemented only on RSX-11/M.
paul
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/20/2013 12:14 PM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
$1000.00? For this?:
http://ns1758.ca/winch/heathkit0029.jpg
In a heartbeat.
It was a nightmare. lol
Uh. I'm not looking for one to use for storage for my mail server or
anything. ;)
That would be amusing. I hope you have a lot of tape. ;)
And the box containing the 11/03 wasn't much
better. Except for the dust, our H-11 looked exactly like this one:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
Yup. They sucked. But they are very rare, and fairly historically
important, as the only minicomputer (architecturally speaking) to be sold as
a kit. (even though the CPU board itself was supplied assembled, unmodified,
from DEC)
And you haven't had joy in your life until you've put together and tried
to type on that tinker-toy Heathkit terminal (clickity-klackity). Don't
forget you can't delete characters by using backspace, you use rubout:
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_HeathkitH89_02.JPG
Yup, the H-9. Mine is the only one I know of that actually works.
Interesting!
I "DID" like that 8" drive however as it would format floppies. ;-)
Yup. Those are almost as scarce as the H-10, unfortunately. I have the
not-quite-as-scarce H17 (dual 5.25" hard-sectored floppy) on one of my H-8s.
The DEC paper-tape drive on the other hand, worked like a dream. It
is probably worth the $1k+ to get it:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~djg/htdocs/pc04/frontasmb.jpg
Oh yes. And they go for a lot more than $1K.
I myself have an HP optical (300CPS) paper tape reader with a homebrew
Positive I/O Bus interface for the PDP-8/e. It works a treat.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
On 04/20/2013 12:14 PM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
$1000.00? For this?:
http://ns1758.ca/winch/heathkit0029.jpg
In a heartbeat.
It was a nightmare. lol
Uh. I'm not looking for one to use for storage for my mail server or
anything. ;)
And the box containing the 11/03 wasn't much
better. Except for the dust, our H-11 looked exactly like this one:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
Yup. They sucked. But they are very rare, and fairly historically
important, as the only minicomputer (architecturally speaking) to be sold as
a kit. (even though the CPU board itself was supplied assembled, unmodified,
from DEC)
And you haven't had joy in your life until you've put together and tried
to type on that tinker-toy Heathkit terminal (clickity-klackity). Don't
forget you can't delete characters by using backspace, you use rubout:
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_HeathkitH89_02.JPG
Yup, the H-9. Mine is the only one I know of that actually works.
I "DID" like that 8" drive however as it would format floppies. ;-)
Yup. Those are almost as scarce as the H-10, unfortunately. I have the
not-quite-as-scarce H17 (dual 5.25" hard-sectored floppy) on one of my H-8s.
The DEC paper-tape drive on the other hand, worked like a dream. It
is probably worth the $1k+ to get it:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~djg/htdocs/pc04/frontasmb.jpg
Oh yes. And they go for a lot more than $1K.
I myself have an HP optical (300CPS) paper tape reader with a homebrew
Positive I/O Bus interface for the PDP-8/e. It works a treat.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/20/2013 08:40 AM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
$1000.00? For this?:
http://ns1758.ca/winch/heathkit0029.jpg
It was a nightmare. lol And the box containing the 11/03 wasn't much
better. Except for the dust, our H-11 looked exactly like this one:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/heath11.jpg
And you haven't had joy in your life until you've put together and tried
to type on that tinker-toy Heathkit terminal (clickity-klackity). Don't
forget you can't delete characters by using backspace, you use rubout:
http://www.thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_HeathkitH89_02.JPG
I "DID" like that 8" drive however as it would format floppies. ;-)
The DEC paper-tape drive on the other hand, worked like a dream. It
is probably worth the $1k+ to get it:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~djg/htdocs/pc04/frontasmb.jpg
The 8-inch
floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
Ahh, the Heath BASTARDIZED RT-11. ;)
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was.
I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software,
Neat!
but sadly after I
left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the
PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and
power distribution supplies (sad).
SUITS!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 04/20/2013 08:40 AM, Brett Bump wrote:
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction
to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics
prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the
nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to
load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional
and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap.
Ah, bet he's kickin' himself now! I'd easily drop $1K for one of those,
and the few that have hit the market recently have gone for more than that.
The 8-inch
floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
Ahh, the Heath BASTARDIZED RT-11. ;)
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was.
I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software,
Neat!
but sadly after I
left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the
PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and
power distribution supplies (sad).
SUITS!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Yup, old people :-)
Last month I bought an rx2600. The guy eas around 30. He showed me a small carddeck, about an inch high, and asked how thede things were used. he also eanted to know how many lines could be printed on a card and how they were read by the computer.
the answers surprised him no end
Hans
Van: Brett Bump
Verzonden: zaterdag 20 april 2013 14:40 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My
introduction to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college)
when my physics prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really)
that had the nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we
could get it to load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy
drive functional and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the
trash heap. The 8-inch floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED
the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved
making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11,
LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no
other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system
was. I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software, but
sadly after I left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in
the trash and the PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected
for the cabinets and power distribution supplies (sad).
Brett
Side note: Keith (KE7BWR) is now retired and living in Utah.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, h vlems wrote:
> Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
> The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could
> use a terminal.
> hans
>
> It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
>
> Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
> Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
> Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> >
> > How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the
> mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
>
> That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
>
> My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at
> the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer
> output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic
> I/O architecture that I never really understood.
>
> BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a
> Model 35 isn't as good.
>
> Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
>
> paul
>
>
>
>
Oooold people. ;-) I was still in high school at that time. My introduction to a paper-tape device came about 4 years later (in college) when my physics prof and I put together a Heathkit H-11 (PDP-11/03 really) that had the nastiest paper-tape device ever created by man. I think we could get it to load maybe 1 time out of 20. We then got the 8 inch floppy drive functional and I think the paper-tape device was relagated to the trash heap. The 8-inch floppy drives ran the Heath branded RT-11 V02.
About a year later was when our resident math guru (Name Drop) Keith Olson
moved to Montana and handed us the keys to the PDP-11/20. We actually USED the paper-tape device on that machine (because it REALLY worked). I loved making my assembler students load an absolute loader, EDIT-11, MARCO-11, LINK-11 and have them paper-tape punch out ONE of their project, if for no other reason then to show them how nice having a disk operating system was. I still have digital copies of the DEC paper-tape software, but sadly after I left the college, I was told the paper-tape was tossed in the trash and the PDP-11's (11/20, 2 11/45's and a 11/70) were disected for the cabinets and power distribution supplies (sad).
Brett
Side note: Keith (KE7BWR) is now retired and living in Utah.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, h vlems wrote:
Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could
use a terminal.
hans
It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the
mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at
the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer
output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic
I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a
Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
Paul, we share a common background. I learned Algol on a B6700, which succeeded the ELX8. Some of the flexowriters were still there, early 1976.
The B6700 could read and punch papertape but mostly for data I think. Programming was done on cards. If you were lucky your account was upgraded for CANDE and you could use a terminal.
hans
It is called the TU/e for decades but my generation still says TH...
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 april 2013 20:46 PM
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] punched tape
On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
>
> How many people on this list have ever used paper tape at a job? My first computer job we used it to control phototypesetting machines. When an 11/70 was added to the mix of gear there, we ordered it with paper tape readers and punches on it to help in transitioning away from the paper tape only gear it was replacing.
That was probably 6 bit tape -- most typesetters I've seen that were fed with tape used 6 bit tape.
My first programs were written on paper tape -- Flexowriter editing papertape typewriter/reader/punch machines, with a character set optimized for Algol 60. That was at the Technical University Eindhoven, then known as THE -- which is where the operating system by that name came from. It was a batch system: paper tape in, line printer output. Magnetic tapes available in theory but rarely used, plus a drum for paging. Processor was a Philips (Electrologica) EL-X8, a 27 bit machine with a rather exotic I/O architecture that I never really understood.
BTW, Flexowriters are great machines. Teletype Corporation never built anything remotely as reliable as those -- certainly not the cruft known as Model 33, and even a Model 35 isn't as good.
Semaphores (in the computer science sense) were invented there.
paul
