On 2013-02-11 22:38, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:02, Dave McGuire wrote:
You know DEC, they loved supporting legacy products almost into oblivion.
Yes, for GOOD products
As much as I'd like to agree, it didn't necessarily work that way round. It was more a case of
'is someone important still using this? Then we best not ditch them or it'll look awfully bad...
and they'll go and buy an IBM/DataGeneral/etc.' :)
I'd say it is a bit of both, and the latter sometimes comes as an effect of the former. Heck, I still know lots of places that run PDP-11 in production. Even some places with real hardware, although several are now on emulators.
I mean, when did they stop officially supporting PDP themselves?
Supporting I don't know, but the last PDP-11 to roll off the assembly
line did so on 9/30/1996. (see "good products" above)
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11 emulation back up and running.
I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+ (there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P ).
I'm totally innocent... :-)
It's just that RSX is so much fun.
(Most of my crashing with the new TCP/IP have so far been on my very experimental JOCKE, so MIM have been spared, even though it is running the new code. Still some bug in there, which cause some timer to trigger when it shouldn't...)
As some people occasionally do ask about my TCP/IP, the answer is that, yes, I do plan to get some beta testers sooner or later. Let me finish the current rewrite, and then I could start talking about possible tries at distributing something.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 11 Feb 2013, at 18:42, Brett Bump <bbump at rsts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 18:17, Brett Bump <bbump at rsts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:35, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
I think I've heard that before (Jonny's fault ;-), while I may not
necessarily agree with it.
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up?shame E11 has no x86_64 build?the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Anyway, back on topic: I think running NT 4 on this is a lost cause. ;)
Um...yes, I believe there is a support disk (as I mentioned a week back),
I have TSE running on both of my White Elephants (DecServer 3300s). But I
would have to agree with Dave, that it is kind of like strapping a couch
to your Ferrari (sure it will work, but it is not very practical). This
was the first install I did on my 3300s and that was BEFORE Y2k. And both
of these machines have been turned off for years. :(
No support disk for the ES40 proper, closest I could get was DS20, so i'm currently installing Tru64.
That's a rather old install then. ;)
Yes, a VERY old install. That was back in them medieval days when a shop
that I was working with had the big white Micro$oft experimental CD's that
had pretty much all of their development work on. One of them was the TSE
install for Alpha...and I was in the process of getting Citrix certified.
It was my understanding that the code for TSE "came from Citrix" and was
given to Micro$oft to be imbeded in NT4. Megaframe was that nasty stuff
that we had been running on NT3.5 so when NT4 came out, it was...umm, I am
trying to say better (which it was). But it was still terrible. We had a
Compaq server farm that ONLY ran well when you rebooted it every morning.
(NT4 had terrible memory leaks)
Yup. RDP was based on a Citrix product. ;)
A friend of mine HATED TSE he found it to be a kludge with the goofy Citrix stuff tacked on. At least NT 4 TSE has a better UI than 2000. ;)
I think i'm going to go try Tru64.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
Yes, this would be a much better approach. ;-)
Brett
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 18:17, Brett Bump <bbump at rsts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:35, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
I think I've heard that before (Jonny's fault ;-), while I may not
necessarily agree with it.
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up?shame E11 has no x86_64 build?the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Anyway, back on topic: I think running NT 4 on this is a lost cause. ;)
Um...yes, I believe there is a support disk (as I mentioned a week back),
I have TSE running on both of my White Elephants (DecServer 3300s). But I
would have to agree with Dave, that it is kind of like strapping a couch
to your Ferrari (sure it will work, but it is not very practical). This
was the first install I did on my 3300s and that was BEFORE Y2k. And both
of these machines have been turned off for years. :(
No support disk for the ES40 proper, closest I could get was DS20, so i'm currently installing Tru64.
That's a rather old install then. ;)
Yes, a VERY old install. That was back in them medieval days when a shop
that I was working with had the big white Micro$oft experimental CD's that
had pretty much all of their development work on. One of them was the TSE
install for Alpha...and I was in the process of getting Citrix certified.
It was my understanding that the code for TSE "came from Citrix" and was
given to Micro$oft to be imbeded in NT4. Megaframe was that nasty stuff
that we had been running on NT3.5 so when NT4 came out, it was...umm, I am
trying to say better (which it was). But it was still terrible. We had a
Compaq server farm that ONLY ran well when you rebooted it every morning.
(NT4 had terrible memory leaks)
I think i'm going to go try Tru64.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
Yes, this would be a much better approach. ;-)
Brett
On 11 Feb 2013, at 18:17, Brett Bump <bbump at rsts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:35, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
I think I've heard that before (Jonny's fault ;-), while I may not
necessarily agree with it.
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up?shame E11 has no x86_64 build?the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Anyway, back on topic: I think running NT 4 on this is a lost cause. ;)
Um...yes, I believe there is a support disk (as I mentioned a week back),
I have TSE running on both of my White Elephants (DecServer 3300s). But I
would have to agree with Dave, that it is kind of like strapping a couch
to your Ferrari (sure it will work, but it is not very practical). This
was the first install I did on my 3300s and that was BEFORE Y2k. And both
of these machines have been turned off for years. :(
No support disk for the ES40 proper, closest I could get was DS20, so i'm currently installing Tru64.
That's a rather old install then. ;)
I think i'm going to go try Tru64.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
Yes, this would be a much better approach. ;-)
Brett
On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:35, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
I think I've heard that before (Jonny's fault ;-), while I may not
necessarily agree with it.
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up?shame E11 has no x86_64 build?the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Anyway, back on topic: I think running NT 4 on this is a lost cause. ;)
Um...yes, I believe there is a support disk (as I mentioned a week back),
I have TSE running on both of my White Elephants (DecServer 3300s). But I
would have to agree with Dave, that it is kind of like strapping a couch
to your Ferrari (sure it will work, but it is not very practical). This
was the first install I did on my 3300s and that was BEFORE Y2k. And both
of these machines have been turned off for years. :(
I think i'm going to go try Tru64.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
Yes, this would be a much better approach. ;-)
Brett
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:35, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up shame E11 has no x86_64 build the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Anyway, back on topic: I think running NT 4 on this is a lost cause. ;)
I think i'm going to go try Tru64.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
On 11 Feb 2013, at 17:33, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
Which reminds me, I need to get my RSX-11M+ VM back up shame E11 has no x86_64 build the distro I run doesn't have an i386 compat layer.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:41, Dave McGuire wrote:
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
Eh, Ma ana. It takes me over an hour to do a fresh SYSGEN and NETGEN and I haven't done it in ages so I'll be out of practice.
I do want to get it running again though and delve a little deeper into RSX-11 :)
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:57, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
OK, I didn't get that.
Wouldn't W2k have that driver ?
Possibly, but I didn't have the w2k beta downloaded.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:52:55
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I doubt that will ever work. NT4 won't even install on an AlphaServer 1200 which predates the ES40.
You need a HAL and boot support for the system.
Even Windows 2000 won't run on an ES40.
Using the DS20's HAL, it will boot to the installer. The only thing stopping me is the lack of a driver for my SCSI controller.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
Verzonden: 11 februari 2013 21:33
Hello!
I'm attempting to get NT 4 installed on my alpha server es40 is there an NT 4 TSE hardware support disk for this?
I got it to boot using the DS20 disk but despite having 2 keyboards plugged in neither work in NT setup (this is early setup, too!)
Any ideas? The ES40 hates this damn keyboard...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
OK, I didn't get that.
Wouldn't W2k have that driver ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:52:55
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I doubt that will ever work. NT4 won't even install on an AlphaServer 1200 which predates the ES40.
You need a HAL and boot support for the system.
Even Windows 2000 won't run on an ES40.
Using the DS20's HAL, it will boot to the installer. The only thing stopping me is the lack of a driver for my SCSI controller.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
Verzonden: 11 februari 2013 21:33
Hello!
I'm attempting to get NT 4 installed on my alpha server es40 is there an NT 4 TSE hardware support disk for this?
I got it to boot using the DS20 disk but despite having 2 keyboards plugged in neither work in NT setup (this is early setup, too!)
Any ideas? The ES40 hates this damn keyboard...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
