On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I doubt that will ever work. NT4 won't even install on an AlphaServer 1200 which predates the ES40.
You need a HAL and boot support for the system.
Even Windows 2000 won't run on an ES40.
Using the DS20's HAL, it will boot to the installer. The only thing stopping me is the lack of a driver for my SCSI controller.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
Verzonden: 11 februari 2013 21:33
Hello!
I'm attempting to get NT 4 installed on my alpha server es40 is there an NT 4 TSE hardware support disk for this?
I got it to boot using the DS20 disk but despite having 2 keyboards plugged in neither work in NT setup (this is early setup, too!)
Any ideas? The ES40 hates this damn keyboard...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:44, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> wrote:
On 2013-02-11, at 1:41 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
*That* explains the shipping delay on my newly acquired ES40. It was meant to be here on Friday, but looks like it's now going to be tomorrow.
Make sure you've got enough space and cooling to keep it cool. ;)
Ian
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
On 2013-02-11, at 1:41 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
*That* explains the shipping delay on my newly acquired ES40. It was meant to be here on Friday, but looks like it's now going to be tomorrow.
Ian
On Feb 11, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:02, Dave McGuire wrote:
You know DEC, they loved supporting legacy products almost into oblivion.
Yes, for GOOD products
As much as I'd like to agree, it didn't necessarily work that way round. It was more a case of 'is someone important still using this? Then we best not ditch them or it'll look awfully bad... and they'll go and buy an IBM/DataGeneral/etc.' :)
Not even that. For example, shortly after the 11/780 was announced, there was a definite (and, as I recall, explicitly stated) push to drop all PDP-11 support ASAP.
For that matter, when IAS was announced, RSTS customers were told that IAS was the future and they should move there right away. Not long after that, IAS was recognized for the boat anchor it was, and it remained an obscure niche product.
So DEC definitely had a history of angering customers by attempting to drop support for products that were very much alive and in some cases superior to the alleged replacement.
Of course, they sometimes did get it right, as in the example of TRAX... :-)
paul
On 02/11/2013 04:38 PM, Mark Benson wrote:
You know DEC, they loved supporting legacy products almost into
oblivion.
Yes, for GOOD products
As much as I'd like to agree, it didn't necessarily work that way
round. It was more a case of 'is someone important still using this?
Then we best not ditch them or it'll look awfully bad... and they'll
go and buy an IBM/DataGeneral/etc.' :)
Of course...but this was one of those rare cases in which doing what
was best for business interests also did what was best for the
technological world. ;)
NT on Alpha was an utter failure by every metric.
But people may still have relied on it on some bastard corner of the
world, thus they still supported it. Long after it should have died a
fiery death, by all accounts.
Yeah. :-(
I mean, when did they stop officially supporting PDP themselves?
Supporting I don't know, but the last PDP-11 to roll off the
assembly line did so on 9/30/1996. (see "good products" above)
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11
emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+
(there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P
).
EVERYTHING is Johnny's fault. ;) Bring up that PDP-11! (even if it's
not real iron!)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I doubt that will ever work. NT4 won't even install on an AlphaServer 1200 which predates the ES40.
You need a HAL and boot support for the system.
Even Windows 2000 won't run on an ES40.
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Cory Smelosky
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
Verzonden: 11 februari 2013 21:33
Hello!
I'm attempting to get NT 4 installed on my alpha server es40 is there an NT 4 TSE hardware support disk for this?
I got it to boot using the DS20 disk but despite having 2 keyboards plugged in neither work in NT setup (this is early setup, too!)
Any ideas? The ES40 hates this damn keyboard...
On 11 Feb 2013, at 21:02, Dave McGuire wrote:
You know DEC, they loved supporting legacy products almost into oblivion.
Yes, for GOOD products
As much as I'd like to agree, it didn't necessarily work that way round. It was more a case of 'is someone important still using this? Then we best not ditch them or it'll look awfully bad... and they'll go and buy an IBM/DataGeneral/etc.' :)
NT on Alpha was an utter failure by every metric.
But people may still have relied on it on some bastard corner of the world, thus they still supported it. Long after it should have died a fiery death, by all accounts.
I mean, when did they stop officially supporting PDP themselves?
Supporting I don't know, but the last PDP-11 to roll off the assembly
line did so on 9/30/1996. (see "good products" above)
That I won't argue with. That reminds me, I need to get my PDP-11 emulation back up and running. I'm actually missing using RSX-11 M+ (there's something wrong with me, I swear. It's Johnny's fault! :P ).
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:19, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 16:11
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
On 02/11/2013 04:07 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
NT 4.0 and all service packs were supported on Alpha. NT 5.0 (aka
Windows 2000) beta worked as well until Compaq pulled the plug.
Frightening.
As for
speed... The Alpha's kicked series ASS running NT. One of my
Jensen's still runs V4.0 and it cooks right along!
I reloaded several Jensens with Digital UNIX at customer
sites. They ran rings around their previous NT installs on
the same hardware. It wasn't 4.0, though; I seem to recall
it was 3.something.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
NT 3.x was a whole different beast the NT 4.0. Video was a big change -
it moved into system space (and so did the early crashes :-)), but
performance improved. I used to run V3.5 with SQL and it booked! V4.0
I used for file, print, and email (Exchange). Often I would run most of
the BackOffice Suite (except the SNA component) and that included SMS
which was a resource hog. NT 4.0 workstation was quite fast - problem
was that few companies ported their software to the Alpha platform so
over time people had fewer and fewer reasons to use it.
Which version of Exchange?
NT 4.0 Workstation is still fast! It's much less bloated than modern windows! I still use it and Office 97.
Even Dave Cutler used the Alpha to do development on until they finally
withdrew support that is
That makes perfect sense. I am not surprised.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 16:11
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40
On 02/11/2013 04:07 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
NT 4.0 and all service packs were supported on Alpha. NT 5.0 (aka
Windows 2000) beta worked as well until Compaq pulled the plug.
Frightening.
As for
speed... The Alpha's kicked series ASS running NT. One of my
Jensen's still runs V4.0 and it cooks right along!
I reloaded several Jensens with Digital UNIX at customer
sites. They ran rings around their previous NT installs on
the same hardware. It wasn't 4.0, though; I seem to recall
it was 3.something.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
NT 3.x was a whole different beast the NT 4.0. Video was a big change -
it moved into system space (and so did the early crashes :-)), but
performance improved. I used to run V3.5 with SQL and it booked! V4.0
I used for file, print, and email (Exchange). Often I would run most of
the BackOffice Suite (except the SNA component) and that included SMS
which was a resource hog. NT 4.0 workstation was quite fast - problem
was that few companies ported their software to the Alpha platform so
over time people had fewer and fewer reasons to use it.
Even Dave Cutler used the Alpha to do development on until they finally
withdrew support that is...
-Steve
On 11 Feb 2013, at 16:14, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 02/11/2013 04:11 PM, Steve Davidson wrote:
The only reason it failed in the market place was what Compaq did/didn't
do with/for it. CAD/CAM on the first Alphas was amazing. Intel had
nothing that could keep up with it. Compaq did not know how to market
it and it fell into the abyss. Shame too - DEC knew how to deal with
interrupts - something that Intel still does not know how to deal with.
The people I moved off of it did so due to the almost complete lack of
software, and the instability. Their application targets were network
services. (I was with a networking company at the time)
NT 3.x was horrendously unstable iirc. I don't think the TCP/IP stack was very robust or refined in that era either.
Lack of software was however a major issue. :(
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
