HECnet February 2013

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

39 participants
846 discussions

by dibi58＠gmail.com

beg to differ, nt on apha in mid nineties had no viruses, worms, trojans, et cetera, (which begs the question if that was the reason MS dumped it) On 2/11/13, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 02/11/2013 03:44 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I'm attempting to get NT 4 installed on my alpha server es40 is there an NT 4 TSE hardware support disk for this? I got it to boot using the DS20 disk but despite having 2 keyboards plugged in neither work in NT setup (this is early setup, too!) Any ideas? The ES40 hates this damn keyboard... The stuff you're trying to mate is like 15-20 years apart...I really don't think you're going to have much luck there. 15 years? TSE was released in 1998, the ES40 in 2000/2001, and the current firmware build was released in 2007! I don't know what "TSE" is, but I could've sworn the ES40 was more like 2005, and NT for Alpha died (thank heaven) YEARS before 1998. Terminal Services Edition. You might be thinking of the discontinuation date for the ES40. I don't think so, but either way.. Perhaps they (stupidly) kept supporting it ? It seems they half-stopped supporting it. There are DS20 drivers (2001 again) yet support WAS dropped in 1998. That's frightening. They stopped pushing it as a viable platform in like 1994. The last place I saw it deployed (not that there were many) was gone by 1995. Either way, though, NT on Alpha was very much a "first generation Alphas" thing, and the ES family is a "last generation Alphas" thing. I'd be shocked if it even came close to booting on a 21264-class processor. ...which means I'm utterly shocked to hear of any DS20 support at all. Well I learned something today. ;) NT on Alpha had even less reason to exist than NT on DECstations. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 9 months

Mulita issue

by dibi58＠gmail.com

I think I'll take the ide out, after imoaging it (hopefully,) would you know of a way of using a 2.88 non dec floppy in there ? adapters from the flat cable to the generic floppy one ? I'm wandering if I can use a regular alpha one or an ibm rs6000 one, have a few spares, just don't know if vms and the firmware may support it. On 2/11/13, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote: There were several options; a 2,5" SCSI disk, a 3,5" SCSI disk and a 2,5" IDE disk. What I've found out with my Multias is that it is not recommended to use an internal drive at all, because of the additional heat it produces. The enclosure is not very well designed for sufficient cooling and therefore it is best to try to minimize the heat load in every possible way. An external SCSI disk or enclosure with disks (such as a BA353) works fine. Kari On 11.2.2013 10:20, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote: Did you write IDE disk for a Multia? ISTR it used a 2.5" scsi drive. -----Original Message----- From: Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com> Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 00:03:10 To: <hecnet at update.uu.se> Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue also, for the drive, let the machine off but plugged into a socket for 24 hours, maybe needs to energize, I notice today with the multia, and before with the vax, that they need enough charge on the batteries to function anyhow, that's how the isa corrupted message went off after a while, so that issue is solved, not so for the ide hard disk, that one i think is fried, still keeps appearing and disappearing On 2/10/13, Dan B <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote: I have been using barracuda plain scsi-1, external, they are small but run decent for everything (probably except windoze, never tried to run it on scsi on alpha.) All three were barracuda, I lost one machine (the miata, without counting a number of VAX, those have been dying faster, I'm down to "one" now,) but not the drives. The noise points to a bad drive, (hopefully not controller,) on linux boxes, pc and pc server hardware, I have had a lot of disk failures, sparc, sgi, hp9000 and ibm 6000 are built way better, hardly never fail, consider that those alpha (and the small drives they came with,) are now going to be 20 year old in a few months, the VAX is heading for thirty, in so I expect those old drives to fail sooner or later, I used to buy them by the lot, and still have boxes of small ones. I'm more worried when the machines fail, those are hard to replace, and parts may be really hard to find (like a multia floppy or internal ide.) Probably is time to image all those drives, and if worse comes to worse, run on stromasys or simh for the vax. cheers, daniel ;-) On 2/10/13, Michael Holmes <mholmes10 at hotmail.com> wrote: Found the hidden culprit.... The hard drive started making noises that I normally hear from a blender. The multia booted fine when I set it to mop boot without any local disk (slow but worked). So next weekend I'll remove (or replace )the drive and do the fan upgrade everyone recommends. Anyone know of any possible replacement scsi drives for multia's??? Mike Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2013, at 8:39 PM, "Dan B" <dibi58 at gmail.com> wrote: keep it in a cold place, the number one cause of death for multia is processor overheating, it does not suffer cold, but fries processors in the heat On 2/10/13, Michael Holmes <mholmes10 at hotmail.com> wrote: Oh gee what a picky machine.... It wasn't lighting up the flat panel monitor from SRM console. Switched it to the same old CRT monitor I use with the DEC 3000 (only monitor with RGB inputs) and its displaying... Damn thing is ACTUALLY booting off its little disk that I installed vms on directly via the DEC 3000. Now just have to convo boot the damn thing to fix its HOME server for system disks (node name and addresses changed when I connected to HECnet). wish me luck... Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:42:08 +0200 From: uusimaki at exdecfinland.org To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Mulita issue Are you sure that nothing has changed on your setup since you booted the Multia successfully? Any parameter? Anything of the HW? On 10.2.2013 21:01, Michael Holmes wrote: Yes I hooked up the vms install CDROM to the multia to boot and used the boot procedure with floppy and it pretty much stalls after the "starting bootstrap ..."message. took the HD from the dec3000 with the image of the vms install disk and tried to boot from it with same results. Bought a new (and expensive) floppy for it and same results. Can flip to ARC and SRM consoles ok (not tried to boot under arc as I don't have win nt.) --------- Just booted back up and it was at ARC console so I switched it over to SRM and power cycled it and now it's not powering the monitor. Will have to find my serial cable and try to switch it. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:06 AM, "Kari Uusim ki" <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote: Do you have any chance to test booting from a directly connected SCSI CD-ROM or a disk? Kari On 10.2.2013 0:58, Michael Holmes wrote: Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was reading about the fixes to the VAXStation 4000 regarding chips. I bought a multia several years back and I think it sucommed to being moved to and from Germany and the States too many times. I had it booting as a satelite off a DEC 3000 just fine, until this last move. I thought the battery had died and replaced it. (dead battery prevents the bios from coming up) I get the SRM console and i'd get MOP load message on the DEC 3000 but the MULTIA just hangs after message about bootstrapping. I heard something about an I/O chip that can go bad on the MB and was wondering if anyone had any ideas that could be used to fix the MULTIA. thanks Mike

11 years, 9 months

PDP-11 arch & OS ownership, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Brett Bump <bbump at rsts.org> wrote: On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 02/11/2013 08:30 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: What happened to Mentec and the PDP-11 support after DEC made the silly decision to spin the division off? And yes you should. The PDP-10 was an interesting system and one lived for a long time in the basement of an MIT building during the middle 90s. Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. Uh... No... The Software was bought from what was left of Mentec by a company named xx2247 ltd. Located in Colorado. Ownership passed from Mentec to Calyx before XX2247. -Dave Oh reaaaaaally now! Well I still have my key (if not an 11 to go with it) but it appears that I have been out of the loop for a while. But if it is in Colorado, then closer to me, and easier than swimming across the pond. Hmm... Domain ID:D98296498-LROR Domain Name:XX2247.ORG Created On:27-Jun-2003 20:58:47 UTC Last Updated On:01-Dec-2009 22:46:56 UTC Expiration Date:27-Jun-2013 20:58:47 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Wild West Domains, LLC (R120-LROR) Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR30615963 Registrant Name:John Wilson Registrant Organization:XX2247 Ah, ha ha ha ha! Ok, John fess up. What is the real scoop? ;-) Brett Hello! Oh my aching field density equalizers! If he's the name behind it then we've got a big bear by his paws here. And Dave this is really not your fault. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

11 years, 9 months

PDP-11 arch & OS ownership, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by bbump＠rsts.org

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 02/11/2013 08:30 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: What happened to Mentec and the PDP-11 support after DEC made the silly decision to spin the division off? And yes you should. The PDP-10 was an interesting system and one lived for a long time in the basement of an MIT building during the middle 90s. Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. Uh... No... The Software was bought from what was left of Mentec by a company named xx2247 ltd. Located in Colorado. Ownership passed from Mentec to Calyx before XX2247. -Dave Oh reaaaaaally now! Well I still have my key (if not an 11 to go with it) but it appears that I have been out of the loop for a while. But if it is in Colorado, then closer to me, and easier than swimming across the pond. Hmm... Domain ID:D98296498-LROR Domain Name:XX2247.ORG Created On:27-Jun-2003 20:58:47 UTC Last Updated On:01-Dec-2009 22:46:56 UTC Expiration Date:27-Jun-2013 20:58:47 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Wild West Domains, LLC (R120-LROR) Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR30615963 Registrant Name:John Wilson Registrant Organization:XX2247 Ah, ha ha ha ha! Ok, John fess up. What is the real scoop? ;-) Brett

11 years, 9 months

PDP-11 arch & OS ownership, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/11/2013 08:30 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: What happened to Mentec and the PDP-11 support after DEC made the silly decision to spin the division off? And yes you should. The PDP-10 was an interesting system and one lived for a long time in the basement of an MIT building during the middle 90s. Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. Uh... No... The Software was bought from what was left of Mentec by a company named xx2247 ltd. Located in Colorado. Ownership passed from Mentec to Calyx before XX2247. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 9 months

PDP-11 arch & OS ownership, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-02-12 02:08, Dave McGuire wrote: On 02/11/2013 08:00 PM, Brett Bump wrote: Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. I believe that after Calyx, XX2247 LLC (recognize that?) bought the rights. No other info on that yet. Hmm. I've never heard of Calyx before, but it might just be because I don't know all the details. Anyway, XX2247 LLC (thanks, I wrote ltd in my last mail) is the current owners. And that company is located in Colorado. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 9 months

NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-02-12 02:00, Brett Bump wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-02-12 01:26, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! What happened to Mentec and the PDP-11 support after DEC made the silly decision to spin the division off? And yes you should. The PDP-10 was an interesting system and one lived for a long time in the basement of an MIT building during the middle 90s. Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. Uh... No... The Software was bought from what was left of Mentec by a company named xx2247 ltd. Located in Colorado. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 9 months

PDP-11 arch & OS ownership, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/11/2013 08:00 PM, Brett Bump wrote: Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. I believe that after Calyx, XX2247 LLC (recognize that?) bought the rights. No other info on that yet. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 9 months

NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by bbump＠rsts.org

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-02-12 01:26, Gregg Levine wrote: Hello! What happened to Mentec and the PDP-11 support after DEC made the silly decision to spin the division off? And yes you should. The PDP-10 was an interesting system and one lived for a long time in the basement of an MIT building during the middle 90s. Mentec continued on for about 10 years, and then disappeared in a puff of smoke. However, during those 10 years (take or give a few), first DEC, then Compaq then HP continued to support and sell PDP-11 software, even though Mentec was the guys owning and developing. When Mentec Inc. did disappear, the software bits were bought out by another company. And that is where it sits today. If we could get HP to actually release the IP for this software, then maybe something hobbyist-like could happen, but as it sits right now, HP control bits and pieces, making it a very complex situation. I'm not sure if you can still contact HP and get a new license for RSX, but it might be. But getting anyone to legally release the stuff seems difficult. :-( It was a UK firm (Calyx). Peter Dick was going to see if he could find a contact there to untangle some of the mess. At least that was in our last discussions on the matter (and that was April 15, 2009). No word since then. The PDP-10 wasn't just an "interesting system". It was the foundation of parts of the Internet, and was very prolific in the 70s, into the 80s. However, DEC totally failed to come up with a replacement to the KL-10, and eventually they instead decided that it was VAX only (even to the unhappy PDP-11 people, as Paul referred to). Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 9 months

Tru64, was Re: [HECnet] NT 4 on AlphaServer es40

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/11/2013 07:52 PM, Brett Bump wrote: The last time this came up, I was told on very good authority that Tru64 uses the same sort of license PAKs (for which I have a generator) that VMS uses. Again....I'll have to put these machines up on a console terminal server and you can have your way with them Dave. ;-) Unf!! B-) -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 9 months

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HECnet February 2013