On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2011-08-23 19:41, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
I can't remember whether the RK05 was supported by VMS?
I don't think it was. Neither was the RK06/RK07, but I believe it shipped with a driver for those.
Johnny
I think it was a DECUS submitted driver.
RK06/RK07's were supported at one time on the RK611 IIRC.
I think they were on the first 11/780's back in the late '70's. Minimum 11/780 config I saw on DECnotes at one time was an RK06/RK07 with 128MB of Memory used for minimum price Vax sales.
Never saw real ones in the field with smaller disks than an RM03 as the main disk.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bill
On 2011-08-24 02:21, Steve Davidson wrote:
I'm sure.
A bit surprised, since the RX01 is a really small device, and squeezing in RT-11, in addition to VMB, as a bare minimum needed for a system, is something of a miracle.
Hmm, do anyone have an RX01 image for the VAX-11/78x available online?
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:07
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-24 01:45, Steve Davidson wrote:
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
Are you sure about the RT-11 part? I think it just used the RT-11 file
system, but the actual thing running inside was something small and
dedicated.
The 86x0 machines FE runs RT-11, however. You can even get into the
RT-11 environment on the machine, and use the RT-11 programs in there.
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01 and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter
-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt_
1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I'm sure.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 20:07
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-24 01:45, Steve Davidson wrote:
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
Are you sure about the RT-11 part? I think it just used the RT-11 file
system, but the actual thing running inside was something small and
dedicated.
The 86x0 machines FE runs RT-11, however. You can even get into the
RT-11 environment on the machine, and use the RT-11 programs in there.
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01 and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter
-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt_
1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2011-08-24 01:45, Steve Davidson wrote:
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
Are you sure about the RT-11 part? I think it just used the RT-11 file system, but the actual thing running inside was something small and dedicated.
The 86x0 machines FE runs RT-11, however. You can even get into the RT-11 environment on the machine, and use the RT-11 programs in there.
Johnny
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01 and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt_1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2011-08-23 20:50, G ran hling wrote:
On the original question...
Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_8-inch_floppy_formats
I'd say that this drive "can" be hooked to for example a VAX, even
though it would be more easy to use a PDP-11.
Well, the format of the media have little to do with if the device can be hooked up to a machine or not.
(And DARN! I realize I think of capacities in words, not bytes, which made a comment I made in a previous mail wrong. :-/ )
It would be equally easy to hook it to a VAX and a PDP-11, since they use the same bus, and the same peripherials. So, if you design a controller for a PDP-11, it will work on a VAX as well, assuming you have a VAX with the same bus as the PDP-11, that is. ;-)
When the interface gets ready and a driver software is written, this
would enable reading of IBM-diskettes with their data/code ;-)
Right.
I'd doubt that DEC-diskettes (RX01 or RX02) could be used, but that
might be me being just a little to negative...
You might be. The DEC RX01 format is just the plain IBM 3740 format. Single Side, Single Density. I have used plenty of IBM floppies in my RX01 drive...
The RX02 format, however, is DECs own, incompatible thing.
Also, the interface between the floppy and the controller is very different between the DEC drives and whatever IBM used.
One important question might be if this type of drive uses soft or hard
sectors. (Soft means one index hole per revolution, hard means one per
sector, ie often like 16/rev. IBM often used the latter in their
consoles for 370 etc.
The RX drives, as well as at least the IBM 3740 is soft sectored.
But I can't really remember if this is actually taken care of by the
drive or by the controller - I'd guess controller actually. That means
this drive might be successfully interfaced using for example an RXV21.
No. The DEC interface is totally different than any other contemporary stuff. It's a pure digital interface which is fairly advanced. The RX01 and RX02 drives have a microcontroller, which performs the requested actions for you, so the controller on the computer can be really simple. So for the RX drives, all interpretation of analog signals from the drives are handled in the drive, as is all low level format stuff and god knows what more...
One issue might be that DEC is stated to use 77 tracks, the IBM says
"usable tracks 74" - question is how many tracks the stepper motor
actually has accessible by other mechanics - possibly, this might be
more of a media concern.
Possibly. But I've used IBM media in the RX01 just fine. The RX01 manuals claims that the media in the RX01 is compatible with IBM 3740 Family of equipment.
Myself, If access to an 8" floppy for DEC-equipment is wanted, I'd go
for either true RX02 (though the drive is quite bulky), or a true 3:d
party driver, like BASF, possibly Fujitsu etc. Myself, I've got a couple
of double drives 8" 1/2-height (about 1 1/2") neatly packed side by side
in an 19" 1he unit that used to be connected to a micro-vax.
In my opinion, IBM hardware is often "odd", big blue was big enough not
to care for industrial standards, and is therefore at the best my second
choice...
:-)
Johnny
Happy computing, anyway!
/G ran
On 2011-08-23 19:08, Sampsa Laine wrote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter-/1107…
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Well here goes, worst case scenario it's the null modem console time.
Sampsa
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:49, Dan Williams wrote:
Should do but I find efi sometimes does what it wants.
Dan
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:44, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
So if I add my primary disk as option 1, with no flags, it'll automagically boot it?
Sampsa
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:34, Dan Williams wrote:
Hi,
There's a section on booting in the manual :
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/ba322_90045/apbs05.html
This will let you edit the boot options.
$ @SYS$MANAGER:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Dan
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:26, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
But there's no magic "set EFI boot flags" to this command from VMS?
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com>
Date: 23 August 2011 20:35:31 GMT+01:00
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sampsa,
I'm not sitting in front of a machine, but I think you may set boot options from:
SYS$UPDATE:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Forgive me if this is incorrect... I think you may set flags there as well... but its been a while...
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Is there any way to do this from VMS?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 20:15, Joe Ferraro wrote:
I've just used the following for [no]min boot IA64...
$! CONVERSATIONAL BOOT
$! IA64
EFI> set vms_flags 0,1 $! non-volatile
EFI> exit
$! boot the server
SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 $! don't boot min every-time
SYSBOOT> USE DEFAULT
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" $! use "" to revert to default
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote:
Sampsa,
I believe you can
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 ""
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
to clear the flags...
Joe
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
How do I do this on an Itanium?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 19:58, Steve Davidson wrote:
> Sampsa,
>
> Clear the boot flags.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
> Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 14:50
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
>
> I've somehow managed to make my rx2600's VMS boot give me a SYSBOOT>
> prompt every damn time.
>
> How do I turn this off?
>
> Sampsa
>
>
Should do but I find efi sometimes does what it wants.
Dan
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:44, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
So if I add my primary disk as option 1, with no flags, it'll automagically boot it?
Sampsa
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:34, Dan Williams wrote:
Hi,
There's a section on booting in the manual :
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/ba322_90045/apbs05.html
This will let you edit the boot options.
$ @SYS$MANAGER:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Dan
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:26, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
But there's no magic "set EFI boot flags" to this command from VMS?
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com>
Date: 23 August 2011 20:35:31 GMT+01:00
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sampsa,
I'm not sitting in front of a machine, but I think you may set boot options from:
SYS$UPDATE:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Forgive me if this is incorrect... I think you may set flags there as well... but its been a while...
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Is there any way to do this from VMS?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 20:15, Joe Ferraro wrote:
I've just used the following for [no]min boot IA64...
$! CONVERSATIONAL BOOT
$! IA64
EFI> set vms_flags 0,1 $! non-volatile
EFI> exit
$! boot the server
SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 $! don't boot min every-time
SYSBOOT> USE DEFAULT
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" $! use "" to revert to default
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote:
Sampsa,
I believe you can
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 ""
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
to clear the flags...
Joe
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
How do I do this on an Itanium?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 19:58, Steve Davidson wrote:
> Sampsa,
>
> Clear the boot flags.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
> Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 14:50
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
>
> I've somehow managed to make my rx2600's VMS boot give me a SYSBOOT>
> prompt every damn time.
>
> How do I turn this off?
>
> Sampsa
>
>
It is a RX01. The front end runs RT-11 on an 11/03.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 19:26
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
On 2011-08-23 19:16, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Correct, an RX02 floppy with a formatted capacity of 512 kB IIRC.
Hmm. I thought it was an RX01. Capacity, however, is 128K for RX01 and
256K for RX02.
Johnny
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: RE: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
Verzonden: 23 augustus 2011 19:11
Hm... didn't the 780 use an 8 inch floppy for console boot device?
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 1:09 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Can we hook this up to a VAX or something?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-IBM-6360-8-Disk-Drive-Displaywriter-
/110732734202?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item19c82f6efa#ht_861wt_1
145
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry(r)-toestel
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
So if I add my primary disk as option 1, with no flags, it'll automagically boot it?
Sampsa
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:34, Dan Williams wrote:
Hi,
There's a section on booting in the manual :
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/ba322_90045/apbs05.html
This will let you edit the boot options.
$ @SYS$MANAGER:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Dan
On 24 Aug 2011, at 00:26, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
But there's no magic "set EFI boot flags" to this command from VMS?
Begin forwarded message:
From: Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com>
Date: 23 August 2011 20:35:31 GMT+01:00
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sampsa,
I'm not sitting in front of a machine, but I think you may set boot options from:
SYS$UPDATE:BOOT_OPTIONS.COM
Forgive me if this is incorrect... I think you may set flags there as well... but its been a while...
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Is there any way to do this from VMS?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 20:15, Joe Ferraro wrote:
I've just used the following for [no]min boot IA64...
$! CONVERSATIONAL BOOT
$! IA64
EFI> set vms_flags 0,1 $! non-volatile
EFI> exit
$! boot the server
SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 $! don't boot min every-time
SYSBOOT> USE DEFAULT
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" $! use "" to revert to default
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Joe Ferraro <jferraro at gmail.com> wrote:
Sampsa,
I believe you can
SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 ""
SYSBOOT> CONTINUE
to clear the flags...
Joe
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
How do I do this on an Itanium?
Sampsa
On 23 Aug 2011, at 19:58, Steve Davidson wrote:
> Sampsa,
>
> Clear the boot flags.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
> Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 14:50
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: [HECnet] How to turn off SYSBOOT> prompt on rx2600
>
> I've somehow managed to make my rx2600's VMS boot give me a SYSBOOT>
> prompt every damn time.
>
> How do I turn this off?
>
> Sampsa
>
>
On 2011-08-23 20:10, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
Oh no. A TU58 is a joke device that connects via a UART; the driver for it is a pile of software that speaks
a packet protocol over that UART to send/receive the data.
Indeed. And thus, the only thing you need on your computer, to interface to a TU58, is a serial port.
The TU56 is a classic PDP-11 style DMA device, hooked to a Unibus interface.
It looks somewhat like an old style disk interface (like the RK05 or RP04) except
that you first had to seek to the required block number (by doing read block number
operations until the right number shows up). Also, a TU56 is reliable, unlike a TU58.
And fast... Don't forget that part! ;-)
The TU58 is horrible...
