8 Sep
2015
8 Sep
'15
5:23 p.m.
On Sep 8, 2015 7:57 AM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
On 8 Sep 2015, at 15:52, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
The generic idea sounds good, but maybe the base file format should have more
info/structure than the simple VMS help input form. Given a simple formatting structure,
emitting the VMS help and the other formats should be readily achieved.
I'm looking at reworking the internal help structure of simh with the goal of
potentially emitting several different formats.
- Mark
I need a DATATRIEVE expert... any volunteers? :)
Aside from that, MediaWiki might be the best idea for storage (even if
I'm not that keen on it) as it's easy to host and the front-end is
relatively platform agnostic.
My idea was to keep the "sources" in VMS HLP format and write some scripts to
convert them to whatever we need (including MediaWiki markup that I then automatically
upload).
This way people can access the information through various sources (Plain text files over
FAL, MediaWiki, VMS HELP, JSON for further processing etc).
Basically you describe the output format to me and I write the scripts to produce them -
the source file is copied across HECnet to CHIMPY which produces the various outputs,
updates the Wiki and possibly even notifies interested parties of updates made.
Sound like a plan? 
8 Sep
8 Sep
5:54 p.m.
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:23, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
OK, I'm open to suggestions for easier to parse files..
Sampsa
Sound like a
plan?
The generic idea sounds good, but maybe the base file format should have more
info/structure than the simple VMS help input form. Given a simple formatting structure,
emitting the VMS help and the other formats should be readily achieved.
I'm looking at reworking the internal help structure of simh with the goal of
potentially emitting several different formats.
5:59 p.m.
Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a bunch of other
"HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people can have their own entries
(i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does automatic
updates whenever a new version is released etc..
Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just saying that
I have this facility.
PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work of an ASCII
logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be displayed on text terminals
- if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a PNG etc and use it for various things such
as the Wiki.
Sampsa
9 Sep
9 Sep
4:28 p.m.
So any suggestions for markup?
I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe something like
this could work..
- Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
For example:
|||ENTRY_START
|||ENTRY_END
We can use these to have multiple documents
in one file
|||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
|||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
|||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
|||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
|||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
|||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
|||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
|||SECT_START Start of text section
|||SECT_END End of section
Analogous to <p>...</p> in HTML
|||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
(like <a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
|||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
HECnet
|||CTERM|HILANT|Description
Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we
can put a bunch of other "HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people
can have their own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does automatic
updates whenever a new version is released etc..
Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just saying that
I have this facility.
PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work of an ASCII
logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be displayed on text terminals
- if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a PNG etc and use it for various things such
as the Wiki.
Sampsa
5:12 p.m.
For a known standard form of markup, I suggest looking at YAML, which is
stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as
possible and YAML strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Pute.
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
So any suggestions for markup?
I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe something like
this could work..
- Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
For example:
|||ENTRY_START
|||ENTRY_END
We can use these to have multiple documents
in one file
|||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
|||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
|||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
|||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
|||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
|||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
|||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
|||SECT_START Start of text section
|||SECT_END End of section
Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
|||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
(like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
|||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
HECnet
|||CTERM|HILANT|Description
Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is
that we can put a bunch of other "HOWTO"-type material, history of the network,
people can have their own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does automatic
updates whenever a new version is released etc..
Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just saying that
I have this facility.
PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work of an ASCII
logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be displayed on text terminals
- if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a PNG etc and use it for various things such
as the Wiki.
Sampsa
5:28 p.m.
Yes, YAML is good too!
On 09/09/15 16:12, Peter Jackson wrote:
For a known standard form of markup, I suggest looking
at YAML, which
is stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as
possible and YAML strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Pute.
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
> So any suggestions for markup?
>
> I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe
> something like this could work..
>
> - Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
> For example:
> |||ENTRY_START
> |||ENTRY_END
> We can use these to have multiple documents
> in one file
>
> |||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
> |||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
> |||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
> |||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
> |||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
> |||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
>
> |||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
> |||SECT_START Start of text section
> |||SECT_END End of section
> Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
>
> |||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
> (like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
>
> |||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
> Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
> on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
> produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
> HECnet
>
> |||CTERM|HILANT|Description
> Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
> to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a
>> bunch of other "HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people
>> can have their own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
>>
>> My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install
>> and does automatic updates whenever a new version is released etc..
>>
>> Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so,
>> just saying that I have this facility.
>>
>> PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy
>> work of an ASCII logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character
>> size to be displayed on text terminals - if everybody agrees, we can
>> turn that into a PNG etc and use it for various things such as the
>> Wiki.
>>
>> Sampsa
>>
>>
>
5:30 p.m.
OK works for me..
We just have to agree on the tags we'll use.
On 9 Sep 2015, at 16:12, Peter Jackson <JACKSON_PN at POBOX.COM> wrote:
For a known standard form of markup, I suggest looking
at YAML, which is stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as possible and YAML
strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Pute.
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
> So any suggestions for markup?
>
> I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe something
like this could work..
>
> - Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
> For example:
> |||ENTRY_START
> |||ENTRY_END
> We can use these to have multiple documents
> in one file
>
> |||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
> |||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
> |||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
> |||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
> |||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
> |||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
>
> |||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
> |||SECT_START Start of text section
> |||SECT_END End of section
> Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
>
> |||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
> (like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
>
> |||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
> Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
> on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
> produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
> HECnet
>
> |||CTERM|HILANT|Description
> Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
> to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
>
>
>
>
> On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a bunch of other
"HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people can have their own entries
(i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
>>
>> My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does
automatic updates whenever a new version is released etc..
>>
>> Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just
saying that I have this facility.
>>
>> PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work of
an ASCII logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be displayed on text
terminals - if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a PNG etc and use it for various
things such as the Wiki.
>>
>> Sampsa
>>
>>
>
5:32 p.m.
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Peter Jackson wrote:
For a known standard form of markup, I suggest looking
at YAML, which is
stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as possible
and YAML strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Well, if the only goal was to transport/exchange the explicit 'words' contained in
the text of help (or other) information, YAML would work.
However, the data I've seen contains information which is usefully displayed in
tabular arrangements (at least in columns) with varying useful indentation.
When I looked at this problem I started looking at "Markdown" and "Github
Flavored Markdown".
The "pandoc" tool seemed to provide translations from many formats to many
others.
- Mark
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
So any suggestions for markup?
I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe
something
like this could work..
- Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
For example:
|||ENTRY_START
|||ENTRY_END
We can use these to have multiple documents
in one file
|||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
|||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
|||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
|||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
|||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
|||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
|||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
|||SECT_START Start of text section
|||SECT_END End of section
Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
|||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
(like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
|||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
HECnet
|||CTERM|HILANT|Description
Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
> Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a bunch of
other
"HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people can have their
own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
>
> My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does
automatic updates whenever a new version is released etc..
>
> Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just
saying that I have this facility.
>
> PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work
of an ASCII logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be
displayed on text terminals - if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a
PNG etc and use it for various things such as the Wiki.
>>
>> Sampsa
>>
>>
>
5:36 p.m.
The original idea is that it's basically the same format as a VMS help file but
we'll use some markup to make it more generic, then export VMS HELP files, Wiki markup
etc.
YAML will work fine for this.
If we keep over-engineerin this thing I doubt anything will ever be built..
I vote we use YAML and agree on the tags we use to structure the text.
Sampsa
On 9 Sep 2015, at 16:32, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Peter
Jackson wrote:
For a known standard form of markup, I suggest
looking at YAML, which is
stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as possible
and YAML strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Well, if the only goal was to transport/exchange the explicit 'words' contained
in the text of help (or other) information, YAML would work.
However, the data I've seen contains information which is usefully displayed in
tabular arrangements (at least in columns) with varying useful indentation.
When I looked at this problem I started looking at "Markdown" and "Github
Flavored Markdown".
The "pandoc" tool seemed to provide translations from many formats to many
others.
- Mark
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
So any suggestions for markup?
I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe
something
like this could work..
- Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
For example:
|||ENTRY_START
|||ENTRY_END
We can use these to have multiple documents
in one file
|||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
|||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
|||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
|||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
|||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
|||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
|||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
|||SECT_START Start of text section
|||SECT_END End of section
Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
|||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
(like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
|||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
HECnet
|||CTERM|HILANT|Description
Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
> Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a bunch of
other
"HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people can have their
own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
>
> My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does
automatic updates whenever a new version is released etc..
>
> Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just
saying that I have this facility.
>
> PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work
of an ASCII logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be
displayed on text terminals - if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a
PNG etc and use it for various things such as the Wiki.
>>
>> Sampsa
>>
>>
>
5:38 p.m.
Also it's VERY easy to parse YAML as there are libraries for basically every language
in use to do it.
So I'd rather use that than Github Markup..
Sampsa
On 9 Sep 2015, at 16:36, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
The original idea is that it's basically the same
format as a VMS help file but we'll use some markup to make it more generic, then
export VMS HELP files, Wiki markup etc.
YAML will work fine for this.
If we keep over-engineerin this thing I doubt anything will ever be built..
I vote we use YAML and agree on the tags we use to structure the text.
Sampsa
On 9 Sep 2015, at 16:32, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 8:12 AM, Peter
Jackson wrote:
_______________________________________________
Hecnet-list mailing list
Hecnet-list at lists.sonic.net
https://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/hecnet-list For a known standard form of markup, I suggest
looking at YAML, which is
stable and has libraries implemented in a number of languages.
See HTTP://YAML.ORG
I think it is very important to make the barrier to authors as low as possible
and YAML strikes me as meeting this requirement.
Well, if the only goal was to transport/exchange the explicit 'words' contained
in the text of help (or other) information, YAML would work.
However, the data I've seen contains information which is usefully displayed in
tabular arrangements (at least in columns) with varying useful indentation.
When I looked at this problem I started looking at "Markdown" and "Github
Flavored Markdown".
The "pandoc" tool seemed to provide translations from many formats to many
others.
- Mark
On 09/09/2015 14:28, Sampsa Laine wrote:
So any suggestions for markup?
I've been playing around with this in my head and thought that maybe
something
like this could work..
- Any line starting with three pipe symbols is a "command"
For example:
|||ENTRY_START
|||ENTRY_END
We can use these to have multiple documents
in one file
|||TITLE|HILANT:: VAXcluster Title of the entry
|||DATE|1-JAN-2015 Date of document
|||VERSION|1.01 Version of document
|||AUTHOR|Sampsa Laine
|||AUTHOR_MAIL11|HILANT::SAMPSA
|||AUTHER_SMTP|sampsa at mac.com
|||H|1|This is a heading Heading level, 1, Name
|||SECT_START Start of text section
|||SECT_END End of section
Analogous to<p>...</p> in HTML
|||HTTP_LINK|http://www..|Link description
(like<a href="http://..">Decription</a> in HTML)
|||FAL_LINK|CHIMPY::[INFO]FOO.TXT|Link description
Same as HTTP link but with a reference to an object
on HECnet - not sure how to use this right now, maybe
produce some kind of menu to interesting documents on
HECnet
|||CTERM|HILANT|Description
Again, not sure exactly how to use this but could be used
to generate a menu like LAUNCH on CHIMPY
On 8 Sep 2015, at 16:59, Sampsa Laine<sampsa at mac.com> wrote:
> Another side benefit of the Wiki of course is that we can put a bunch of
other
"HOWTO"-type material, history of the network, people can have their
own entries (i.e. who is this HILANT::SAMPSA guy)..
>
> My hosting provider provides it for free with a one click install and does
automatic updates whenever a new version is released etc..
>
> Of course if someone else wants to host it they're welcome to do so, just
saying that I have this facility.
>
> PS: MediaWiki needs a logo and I'm having a graphic designer buddy work
of an ASCII logo of the word HECnet in about a 70x15 character size to be
displayed on text terminals - if everybody agrees, we can turn that into a
PNG etc and use it for various things such as the Wiki.
>>
>> Sampsa
>>
>>
>
3362
days inactive
3363
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
JACKSON_PN＠POBOX.COM -
Mark＠infocomm.com -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
sampsa＠mac.com