20 Oct
2021
20 Oct
'21
4:14 a.m.
. I can't seem to reach it. It's not a big problem, but I wondered if it
was my issue or somebody else's.
Bob
20 Oct
20 Oct
10:17 a.m.
Hello there
MIM responds well from Area34 via Area59
bbtrtr#ping decnet 1.13
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte DECnet echos to atg 0 area.node 1.13, timeout is 5 seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 4/6/8 ms
BR
/t
Fr?n: "owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE" <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> p?
uppdrag av Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com>
Svara till: "hecnet at Update.UU.SE" <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Datum: onsdag 20 oktober 2021 09:43
Till: "hecnet at Update.UU.SE" <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
?mne: [HECnet] Is MIM running?
? I can?t seem to reach it. It?s not a big problem, but I wondered if it was my issue
or somebody else?s?
Bob
5:38 p.m.
Tomas,
Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have!? Would you know where I
could get the source to it or its theory of operation?
Tommy Timesharing systems (TOMMYT, VENTI2, TERZO) are Tops-20 machines
running on the KLH10 micro-engine.? They have a number of monitor
modifications plus a rewritten SETNODE utility to support long term
updates of the volatile data base. "Long term" means updates in access
of 39 weeks (6,636 hours).
Updates are accomplished by a weekly batch job.? The node database on
MIM:: is checked for updates on a weekly basis.? I check connectivity to
MIM:: by attempting a directory of the appropriate files.? If this
works, then I proceed to NFT them.? If not, then I send email.
21:09:03 MONTR?? $@NFT
21:09:03 USER?? NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /USER:
21:09:03 USER?? NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /PASSWORD:
21:09:03 USER?? NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /ACCOUNT:
21:09:03 USER?? NFT>*DIR MIM::FIX.T20;0
21:09:03 USER
21:09:03 USER?? [Fork NFT opening DCN:MIM-FAL for reading, writing]
21:09:06 USER
21:09:06 USER???? MIM::DU1:[DECNET]
21:09:06 USER?? FIX.T20;111;P775656???????????? 17 33280(8)
21-Sep-2021 22:19:51
21:09:06 USER?? NFT>*; If get here, then have connectivity to MIM::
It seems to me that doing a ping might be a more valid initial
connectivity test, the directory attempt then being a test of FAL/DAP
status.
Regards,
--T
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 10/20/21 4:17 AM, Tomas Prybil wrote:
Hello there
MIM responds well from Area34 via Area59
bbtrtr#ping decnet 1.13
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte DECnet echos to atg 0 area.node 1.13, timeout is 5
seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 4/6/8 ms
BR
/t
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 10/19/21 10:14 PM, Robert Armstrong wrote:
>
> ?? I can?t seem to reach it.? It?s not a big problem, but I wondered
> if it was my issue or somebody else?s?
>
> Bob
>
6:31 p.m.
On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Thomas DeBellis
<tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote:
Tomas,
Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where I could get the
source to it or its theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP loop node foo" command,
which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror, object 25).
I think I've seen a ping somewhere. "dnping" in Linux? It seemed to be
something lower level, like an NSP message that would trigger a response from the
destination node but not rely on any specific application object number being recognized.
Perhaps a data message sent to an unused logical link number? That would produce a
"no link terminate" disconnect-confirm message.
paul
6:50 p.m.
On 10/20/21 12:31 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Say, that is a
very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where I could get the source to it or its
theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP loop node foo" command,
which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror, object 25).
6:54 p.m.
On Oct 20, 2021, at 12:50 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire
at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/20/21 12:31 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
Ok, then it's anyone's guess what it does; Cisco doesn't really understand
DECnet or know how to read the specs. It would be informative to capture a packet trace
showing what was sent and received.
paul
Say, that
is a very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where I could get the source to it
or its theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an
"NCP loop node foo" command, which is an application protocol but a simple one
(mirror, object 25).
6:59 p.m.
On 10/20/21 12:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
Ok, then it's anyone's guess what it does; Cisco doesn't really understand
DECnet or know how to read the specs. It would be informative to capture a packet trace
showing what was sent and received.
Seems to work pretty well here, and has for the better part of thirty
years, for me.
If I get any desk time soon I'll see if I can capture some traces for
you.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Say, that is a
very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where I could get the source to it or its
theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP
loop node foo" command, which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror,
object 25).
7:01 p.m.
Thanks! BTW, I've been doing some work on Wireshark to fix its DECnet decoding, there
are quite a bunch of errors in there.
paul
On Oct 20, 2021, at 12:59 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire
at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/20/21 12:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Ok, then
it's anyone's guess what it does; Cisco doesn't really understand DECnet or
know how to read the specs. It would be informative to capture a packet trace showing
what was sent and received.
Seems to work pretty well here, and has for the better part of thirty years, for me.
If I get any desk time soon I'll see if I can capture some traces for you.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
> Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have!
Would you know where I could get the source to it or its theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP loop node foo" command,
which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror, object 25).
The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
7:53 p.m.
Let me know if you want a beta tester; I have some modifications in mind
for the Tops-20 NRT server to better support SMTP and FTP over DECnet
and I want to make sure I don't break anything.
On 10/20/21 1:01 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Thanks! BTW, I've been doing some work on
Wireshark to fix its DECnet decoding, there are quite a bunch of errors in there.
paul
> On Oct 20, 2021, at 12:59 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/20/21 12:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
>>>>> Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where
I could get the source to it or its theory of operation?
>>>> I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP loop node
foo" command, which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror, object 25).
>>> The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
>> Ok, then it's anyone's guess what it does; Cisco doesn't really
understand DECnet or know how to read the specs. It would be informative to capture a
packet trace showing what was sent and received.
> Seems to work pretty well here, and has for the better part of thirty years, for
me.
>
> If I get any desk time soon I'll see if I can capture some traces for you.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
21 Oct
21 Oct
11:40 a.m.
Here is a small tcpdump with the ping from A34RTR (34.1023) and FORGER (34.101) for anyone
to dig into.
Full pcap file added as attachment.
10:29:02.072710 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count 0
10:29:02.082747 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
10:29:02.083147 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count 0
10:29:02.105797 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
10:29:02.106169 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count 0
10:29:02.124764 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
10:29:02.125142 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count 0
10:29:02.143922 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
10:29:02.144279 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count 0
10:29:02.163085 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
BR
/t
?Den 2021-10-20 19:03 skrev "owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE p? uppdrag av Paul
Koning" <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE p? uppdrag av paulkoning at comcast.net>
f?ljande:
Thanks! BTW, I've been doing some work on Wireshark to fix its DECnet decoding,
there are quite a bunch of errors in there.
paul
On Oct 20, 2021, at 12:59 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire
at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/20/21 12:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Ok, then
it's anyone's guess what it does; Cisco doesn't really understand DECnet or
know how to read the specs. It would be informative to capture a packet trace showing
what was sent and received.
Seems to work pretty well here, and has for the better part of thirty years, for me.
If I get any desk time soon I'll see if I can capture some traces for you.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
> Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have!
Would you know where I could get the source to it or its theory of operation?
I wonder too. The DEC standard answer would be an "NCP loop node foo" command,
which is an application protocol but a simple one (mirror, object 25).
The ping command that he illustrated is from IOS on a Cisco router.
3:18 p.m.
On Oct 21, 2021, at 5:40 AM, Tomas Prybil <tomas at
prybil.se> wrote:
Here is a small tcpdump with the ping from A34RTR (34.1023) and FORGER (34.101) for
anyone to dig into.
Full pcap file added as attachment.
10:29:02.072710 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count
0
10:29:02.082747 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
...
Thanks, that's what I thought I saw at some point in the past. So that's a type
of "ping" that requires only NSP layer behavior; it sends a message to a
connection number that doesn't match a currently open connection, so the other end
rejects it with a "no link terminate" message. That answer is treated as the
ping response.
"traceroute" was mentioned. That could be done, at least a rough approximation,
in a similar way using defined routing and NSP layer mechanisms. It would involve sending
that message with "request return to sender" set in the routing header, and a
visit count that counts down from the limit. That's not a precise solution because
the message will be returned to sender by a router whose "max visits" is less
than what's in the message header. That value can vary, so some of the routers on the
path might be missed. IP avoids this by counting down "time to live" to zero,
rather than counting up "visits" to a node-dependent limit.
I'll put it on the PyDECnet wish list.
paul
4:29 p.m.
On Oct 21, 2021, at 5:40 AM, Tomas Prybil <tomas at
prybil.se> wrote:
Here is a small tcpdump with the ping from A34RTR (34.1023) and FORGER (34.101) for
anyone to dig into.
Full pcap file added as attachment.
10:29:02.072710 34.1023 > 34.101 100 link-service 35839>34917 seg 0 dat seg count
0
10:29:02.082747 34.101 > 34.1023 28 disconn-confirm 34917>35839 no link terminate
...
Specifically, those are link service message (flow control action) asking for "no
change", basically the sort of message an end system would send as a keepalive. But
by being addressed to an invalid link address they produce an immediate reaction from the
destination. They also have "request return to sender" set, so if a router on
the path notices the destination is unreachable it will return it to the sending node.
One thing that's interesting is that the routing layer packet headers ("long data
packet format") don't conform to the specification. That format has a bunch of
reserved fields in it, which originally were put in as part of a longer range plan for new
routing layer capabilities. Those never actually happened, instead DECnet switched to
OSI. So in Phase IV those fields are marked "reserved" which means "send
zero, ignore on receipt". The trace shows that the sending node (A34RTR) is sending
random garbage in those bytes. That won't break things but it's sloppy.
paul
20 Oct
20 Oct
7:58 p.m.
"dnping" in Linux?
There is a dnping in Linux DECnet.
bob at ziti:~$ dnping legato
Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
bob at ziti:~$ dnping -v legato
PKT: 1 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 2 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 3 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 4 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 5 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 6 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 7 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 8 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 9 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 10 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
bob at ziti:~$ dnping
Usage:
dnping nodename [user pass] count
*or*
dnping [options] nodename
where [options]:
-c number number of packets to send {10}
-d debug mode {OFF}
-i interval interval between packets in microseconds {0}
-p password access control password {}
-q quiet mode {OFF}
-s size size of frame to send in bytes {40 data + 68 hdr}
-t timestamps mode {OFF}
-u username access control username {}
-v verbose mode {OFF}
-w seconds maximum wait time (timeout)
bob at ziti:~$ man dnping
DNPING(1) General Commands Manual
DNPING(1)
NAME
dnping - Loopbacks diagnostic packets through a remote node
SYNOPSIS
dnping nodename [user pass] count
or
dnping nodename [options] nodename
Options:
[qsv] [-c number] [-i interval] [-p password] [-s size] [-u
username]
[-w timeout]
DESCRIPTION
This utility sends to remote DECnet node nodename the number of
packets
specified by count to test the link between the two systems.
Optionally
a username and password may be specified for the connection as well
as
several other options. NOTE that if you dnping another Linux box
it
must have dnetd running.
NOTE also that dnping is not really like an IP "ping" in that it
needs
a registered object at the other end to connect to. So, just
because
you cannot ping a machine does not, necessarily, mean that machine
is
not available, just that the MIRROR object is not available. There
is
not (to my knowledge) a low-level equivalent in DECnet of the ICMP
ping
message.
OPTIONS
-c number
Number of packets to send (default 10)
-d Debug mode (default off)
-i interval
interval between packets in microseconds (default 0)
-p password
Access control password. If this is "-" then you will
be
prompted.
-q Quiet mode (default off)
-s size
size of frame to send in bytes (40 data + 68 hdr)
-t timestamps mode (default off)
-u username
access control username
-w timeout
Specifies a timeout (in seconds). If not response is
received
after this time then dnping will abort. The default is to
wait
forever.
-v verbose mode (default off)
EXAMPLES
Pings 10 packets through remote node "mv3100"
# dnping mv3100 10
Make it look a bit like IP ping:
# dnping -vti 1000000 marsha
SEE ALSO
dntype(1), dndir(1), dndel(1), dntask(1), sethost(1), dnetd(8)
8:05 p.m.
On Oct 20, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Robert Armstrong <bob
at jfcl.com> wrote:
That uses the standard mirror object (25) so it is the equivalent of ?ncp loop node?
although it does allow
you to get round trip times via the ?-t? switch.
John.
"dnping" in Linux?
There is a dnping in Linux DECnet.
bob at ziti:~$ dnping legato
Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
bob at ziti:~$ dnping -v legato
PKT: 1 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 2 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 3 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 4 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 5 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 6 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 7 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 8 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 9 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
PKT: 10 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
bob at ziti:~$ dnping
Usage:
dnping nodename [user pass] count
*or*
dnping [options] nodename
where [options]:
-c number number of packets to send {10}
-d debug mode {OFF}
-i interval interval between packets in microseconds {0}
-p password access control password {}
-q quiet mode {OFF}
-s size size of frame to send in bytes {40 data + 68 hdr}
-t timestamps mode {OFF}
-u username access control username {}
-v verbose mode {OFF}
-w seconds maximum wait time (timeout)
bob at ziti:~$ man dnping
DNPING(1) General Commands Manual
DNPING(1)
NAME
dnping - Loopbacks diagnostic packets through a remote node
SYNOPSIS
dnping nodename [user pass] count
or
dnping nodename [options] nodename
Options:
[qsv] [-c number] [-i interval] [-p password] [-s size] [-u
username]
[-w timeout]
DESCRIPTION
This utility sends to remote DECnet node nodename the number of
packets
specified by count to test the link between the two systems.
Optionally
a username and password may be specified for the connection as well
as
several other options. NOTE that if you dnping another Linux box
it
must have dnetd running.
NOTE also that dnping is not really like an IP "ping" in that it
needs
a registered object at the other end to connect to. So, just
because
you cannot ping a machine does not, necessarily, mean that machine
is
not available, just that the MIRROR object is not available. There
is
not (to my knowledge) a low-level equivalent in DECnet of the ICMP
ping
message.
OPTIONS
-c number
Number of packets to send (default 10)
-d Debug mode (default off)
-i interval
interval between packets in microseconds (default 0)
-p password
Access control password. If this is "-" then you will
be
prompted.
-q Quiet mode (default off)
-s size
size of frame to send in bytes (40 data + 68 hdr)
-t timestamps mode (default off)
-u username
access control username
-w timeout
Specifies a timeout (in seconds). If not response is
received
after this time then dnping will abort. The default is to
wait
forever.
-v verbose mode (default off)
EXAMPLES
Pings 10 packets through remote node "mv3100"
# dnping mv3100 10
Make it look a bit like IP ping:
# dnping -vti 1000000 marsha
SEE ALSO
dntype(1), dndir(1), dndel(1), dntask(1), sethost(1), dnetd(8)
21 Oct
21 Oct
7:20 a.m.
It would be awesome to implement a "traceroute" equivalent on something :-)
I assume we'd have to allow node inspection from remote, but I'm sure people would
be open for that.
I used to run a Cisco router for my area, but replaced it with pyDECnet as I wanted to mix
both GRE and point-to-point tunnels.
pyDECnet ticked all the boxes and was simple to implement.
The one thing that I miss, however, is the simplicity of "ping decnet" in Cisco
IOS. Right from the router I could see if something was up or down.
Now I have to jump onto one of my boxes and do an ncp loop node to confirm the same.
Would be nice to have the same implemented in pyDECnet, perhaps as a command line option,
or via the web gui.
If nobody else has any equipment handy, I could setup a router again at home and do some
captures.
Cheers, Wiz!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf Of John Forecast
Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2021 5:06 AM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Is MIM running?
On Oct 20, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Robert Armstrong
<bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
That uses the standard mirror object (25) so it is the equivalent of
?ncp loop node? although it does allow
you to get round trip times via the ?-t? switch.
John.
>
> bob at ziti:~$ dnping legato
> Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
> bob at ziti:~$ dnping -v legato
> PKT: 1 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 2 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 3 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 4 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 5 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 6 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 7 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 8 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 9 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> PKT: 10 WRITE: 40 READ: 40
> Sent 10 packets, Received 10 packets
>
> bob at ziti:~$ dnping
> Usage:
>
> dnping nodename [user pass] count
>
> *or*
>
> dnping [options] nodename
> where [options]:
> -c number number of packets to send {10}
> -d debug mode {OFF}
> -i interval interval between packets in microseconds {0}
> -p password access control password {}
> -q quiet mode {OFF}
> -s size size of frame to send in bytes {40 data + 68 hdr}
> -t timestamps mode {OFF}
> -u username access control username {}
> -v verbose mode {OFF}
> -w seconds maximum wait time (timeout)
>
>
> bob at ziti:~$ man dnping
> DNPING(1) General Commands Manual
> DNPING(1)
>
> NAME
> dnping - Loopbacks diagnostic packets through a remote node
>
> SYNOPSIS
> dnping nodename [user pass] count
> or
> dnping nodename [options] nodename
> Options:
> [qsv] [-c number] [-i interval] [-p password] [-s size] [-u
> username]
> [-w timeout]
>
> DESCRIPTION
> This utility sends to remote DECnet node nodename the number of
> packets
> specified by count to test the link between the two systems.
> Optionally
> a username and password may be specified for the connection as
> well as
> several other options. NOTE that if you dnping another Linux
> box it
> must have dnetd running.
> NOTE also that dnping is not really like an IP "ping" in that it
> needs
> a registered object at the other end to connect to. So, just
> because
> you cannot ping a machine does not, necessarily, mean that
> machine is
> not available, just that the MIRROR object is not available.
> There is
> not (to my knowledge) a low-level equivalent in DECnet of the
> ICMP ping
> message.
>
> OPTIONS
> -c number
> Number of packets to send (default 10)
>
> -d Debug mode (default off)
>
> -i interval
> interval between packets in microseconds (default 0)
>
> -p password
> Access control password. If this is "-" then you
> will be
> prompted.
>
> -q Quiet mode (default off)
>
> -s size
> size of frame to send in bytes (40 data + 68 hdr)
>
> -t timestamps mode (default off)
>
> -u username
> access control username
>
> -w timeout
> Specifies a timeout (in seconds). If not response is
> received
> after this time then dnping will abort. The default is
> to wait
> forever.
>
> -v verbose mode (default off)
>
> EXAMPLES
> Pings 10 packets through remote node "mv3100"
>
> # dnping mv3100 10
> Make it look a bit like IP ping:
>
> # dnping -vti 1000000 marsha
>
> SEE ALSO
> dntype(1), dndir(1), dndel(1), dntask(1), sethost(1), dnetd(8)
>
>
> "dnping" in Linux?
There is a dnping in Linux DECnet.
4:39 p.m.
Tops10/Tops20 has something caled "NETPTH" but it don't work like trace
route
that depends on packet TTL expire and ICMP replies, it actually talks management to each
node
and splices the path together.
[Routing path from MRC (59.41) to LEGATO (2.1)]
From Via Back Thru Cost Hops
MRC (59.41) =>NI-0-0 / TAP-0 <= OPS1VA (59.59) -1 -1
OPS1VA (59.59) =>GRE-3 / GRE-4 <= IAD2 (59.1020) -1 -1
IAD2 (59.1020) =>DMC-0 / MUL-59-1020 <= A2RTR (2.1023) -1 -1
A2RTR (2.1023) =>TAP-0 / QNA-1 <= LEGATO (2.1) -1 -1
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moylan" <djm at
wiz.net.au>
To: "hecnet" <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:20:12 AM
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Is MIM running?
It would be awesome to implement a
"traceroute" equivalent on something :-)
I assume we'd have to allow node inspection from remote, but I'm sure people
would be open for that.
I used to run a Cisco router for my area, but replaced it with pyDECnet as I
wanted to mix both GRE and point-to-point tunnels.
pyDECnet ticked all the boxes and was simple to implement.
The one thing that I miss, however, is the simplicity of "ping decnet" in
Cisco
IOS. Right from the router I could see if something was up or down.
Now I have to jump onto one of my boxes and do an ncp loop node to confirm the
same.
Would be nice to have the same implemented in pyDECnet, perhaps as a command
line option, or via the web gui.
If nobody else has any equipment handy, I could setup a router again at home and
do some captures.
Cheers, Wiz!!
22 Oct
22 Oct
7:06 p.m.
Yes, NETPTH is part of the PANDA distribution and I had begun looking at
it about 18 months ago before I fell into a couple of deep, dark DECnet
holes, viz:
* The SETNODE rewrite is done but wants a bit of a write-up for the
new functionality.
* The extensive work on FAL and anonymous access is complete and
documentation is done.
* A number of patches have been done for DAP, but I have yet to
implement RENAME.
* DECnet SMTP remains to be debugged; there is a .PRIOU/.PRIIN
conflict between it and DEC DDT that is hampering this.
o I may change XDDT
o I have yet to see whether IDDT has the same problem
* A few monitor changes were necessary to support the above
* A patch was done to keep DECnet from filling up the error log (when
talking on HECnet)
* Research on NRT is now down to monitor changes
NETPTH appears to not be fully productized for Tops-20.? Error handling
frequently involves complaining and exiting, whereas I saw that recovery
could be done in certain cases.? It is using SCAN, which, in addition to
occupying program virtual address space, also pulls in PA1050, which
occupies another 28 pages. SCAN makes NETPTH appear kind of clunky for a
Tops-20 user.
Not the end of the world by any means, but I keep making mistakes in it
that wouldn't be happening were it to be fully native Tops-20 and
leverage the SETNODE enhancements which give you node recognition (I.E.,
"?" pick lists, abbreviation and completion).
Still, NETPTH is completely serviceable and to what degree
productization should have happened really is a matter of debate.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 10/21/21 10:39 AM, Peter Lothberg wrote:
Tops10/Tops20 has something caled "NETPTH" but it don't work like trace
route that depends on packet TTL expire and ICMP replies, it actually talks management to
each node and splices the path together.
[Routing path from MRC (59.41) to LEGATO (2.1)]
From Via Back Thru Cost Hops
MRC (59.41) =>NI-0-0 / TAP-0 <= OPS1VA (59.59) -1 -1
OPS1VA (59.59) =>GRE-3 / GRE-4 <= IAD2 (59.1020) -1 -1
IAD2 (59.1020) =>DMC-0 / MUL-59-1020 <= A2RTR (2.1023) -1 -1
A2RTR (2.1023) =>TAP-0 / QNA-1 <= LEGATO (2.1) -1 -1
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From*: "David Moylan"<djm at wiz.net.au>
> *To*: "hecnet"<hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
> *Sent*: Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:20:12 AM
> *Subject*: RE: [HECnet] Is MIM running?
>
> It would be awesome to implement a "traceroute" equivalent on something :-)
I assume we'd have to allow node inspection from remote, but I'm sure people
would be open for that.
>
> I used to run a Cisco router for my area, but replaced it with pyDECnet as I wanted
to mix both GRE and point-to-point tunnels. pyDECnet ticked all the boxes and was simple
to implement.
>
> The one thing that I miss, however, is the simplicity of "ping decnet" in
Cisco IOS. Right from the router I could see if something was up or down. Now I have to
jump onto one of my boxes and do an ncp loop node to confirm the same.
>
> Would be nice to have the same implemented in pyDECnet, perhaps as a command line
option, or via the web gui.
>
> If nobody else has any equipment handy, I could setup a router again at home and do
some captures.
>
> Cheers, Wiz!!
20 Oct
20 Oct
6:31 p.m.
Pls remove me from your mailing list
Rgds
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 11:39 PM Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com>
wrote:
Tomas,
Say, that is a very nice ping utility you have! Would you know where I
could get the source to it or its theory of operation?
Tommy Timesharing systems (TOMMYT, VENTI2, TERZO) are Tops-20 machines
running on the KLH10 micro-engine. They have a number of monitor
modifications plus a rewritten SETNODE utility to support long term
updates of the volatile data base. "Long term" means updates in access of
39 weeks (6,636 hours).
Updates are accomplished by a weekly batch job. The node database on
MIM:: is checked for updates on a weekly basis. I check connectivity to
MIM:: by attempting a directory of the appropriate files. If this works,
then I proceed to NFT them. If not, then I send email.
21:09:03 MONTR $@NFT
21:09:03 USER NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /USER:
21:09:03 USER NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /PASSWORD:
21:09:03 USER NFT>*SET DEFAULTS MIM:: /ACCOUNT:
21:09:03 USER NFT>*DIR MIM::FIX.T20;0
21:09:03 USER
21:09:03 USER [Fork NFT opening DCN:MIM-FAL for reading, writing]
21:09:06 USER
21:09:06 USER MIM::DU1:[DECNET]
21:09:06 USER FIX.T20;111;P775656 17 33280(8) 21-Sep-2021
22:19:51
21:09:06 USER NFT>*; If get here, then have connectivity to MIM::
It seems to me that doing a ping might be a more valid initial
connectivity test, the directory attempt then being a test of FAL/DAP
status.
Regards,
--T
------------------------------
On 10/20/21 4:17 AM, Tomas Prybil wrote:
Hello there
MIM responds well from Area34 via Area59
bbtrtr#ping decnet 1.13
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte DECnet echos to atg 0 area.node 1.13, timeout is 5
seconds:
!!!!!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 4/6/8 ms
BR
/t
------------------------------
On 10/19/21 10:14 PM, Robert Armstrong wrote:
? I can?t seem to reach it. It?s not a big problem, but I wondered if it
was my issue or somebody else?s?
Bob
10:24 a.m.
Hi
It seems to have been some issues with Updates infrastructure dueing the night. Not sure
what yet.
/P
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 07:14:39PM -0700, Robert Armstrong wrote:
. I can't seem to reach it. It's not a big
problem, but I wondered if it
was my issue or somebody else's.
Bob
10:39 a.m.
Hi
There was some sort of network outage between about 03:58 an 09:38 local time today.
I can also give you a heads up. We will be moving! Hopefully during december and we will
need make changes to our network setup. There is lots to do and when and how is hard to
predict. I'll try to keep you in the loop as best I can. But for now: December might
be a bumpy ride :)
Regards,
Pontus
On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:24:56AM +0200, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
Hi
It seems to have been some issues with Updates infrastructure dueing the night. Not sure
what yet.
/P
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 07:14:39PM -0700, Robert Armstrong wrote:
> . I can't seem to reach it. It's not a big problem, but I wondered if it
> was my issue or somebody else's.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
11:05 a.m.
On 2021-10-20 04:14, Robert Armstrong wrote:
? ? I can?t seem to reach it.? It?s not a big
problem, but I wondered
if it was my issue or somebody else?s?
Seems there have been some network issues at the University on and off
the last day or so.
Also affecting this mailing list then, obviously.
Right now things seem to work ok again.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
11:27 a.m.
%TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host simvax, port 23
-TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^]
_______. __ .___ ___. ____ ____ ___ ___ ___
/ || | | \/ | \ \ / / / \ \ \ / /
| (----`| | | \ / | \ \/ / / ^ \ \ V /
\ \ | | | |\/| | \ / / /_\ \ > <
.----) | | | | | | | \ / / _____ \ / . \
|_______/ |__| |__| |__| \__/ /__/ \__\ /__/ \__\
SIMVAX is a SIMH hosted VAXserver 3900 running VAX/VMS 7.3-2, Windermere UK
This server is on the WEB: http://m0nom.uk/simvax
On HECNET this server is SIMVAX, see archive of ConDist/Patches/DECUS at
SIMVAX::
The server admin can be contacted on SIMVAX::MSW or mark at wickensonline.co.uk
Strictly non-commercial use only
Username: msw
Password:
01010011 01001001 01001101 01010110 01000001 01011000
+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|S|I|M|V|A|X|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Welcome to SIMVAX running VAX/VMS 7.3-2
Strictly non-commercial use only
Last interactive login on Thursday, 14-OCT-2021 12:22
Last non-interactive login on Wednesday, 8-MAY-2019 09:43
$ dir mim::
Directory MIM::DU1:[DECNET]
AREA1.TXT;28 AREA1.TXT;27 AREA1.TXT;26 AREA1.TXT;25
AREA1.TXT;24 AREA1.TXT;23 AREA1.TXT;22 AREA1.TXT;21
AREA1.TXT;20 AREA1.TXT;19 AREA1.TXT;18 AREA1.TXT;17
AREA1.TXT;16 AREA1.TXT;15 AREA1.TXT;14 AREA1.TXT;13
AREA1.TXT;12 AREA1.TXT;11 AREA1.TXT;10 AREA1.TXT;9
AREA1.TXT;8 AREA1.TXT;7 AREA1.TXT;6 AREA1.TXT;5
AREA1.TXT;4 AREA1.TXT;3 AREA1.TXT;2 AREA1.TXT;1
CONTACT.TXT;7 CONTACT.TXT;6 CONTACT.TXT;5 CONTACT.TXT;4
CONTACT.TXT;3 CONTACT.TXT;2 CONTACT.TXT;1 DCON.CMD;48
DCON.CMD;47 DCON.CMD;46 DCON.CMD;44 DDB.C;84
DDB.C;83 DDB.C;82 DDB.C;81 DDB.C;80
DDB.C;79 DDB.C;78 DDB.C;77 DDB.C;76
DDB.C;75 DDB.C;74 DDB.C;73 DDB.C;72
DDB.C;71 DDB.C;70 DDB.C;69 DDB.C;68
DDB.C;67 DDB.C;66 DDB.C;65 DDB.C;64
DDB.C;63 DDB.C;62 DDB.C;61 DDB.C;60
DDB.C;59 DDB.C;58 DDB.C;57 DDB.C;56
DDB.C;55 DDB.C;54 DDB.C;53 DDB.C;52
DDB.C;51 DDB.C;50 DDB.C;49 DDB.C;48
DDB.C;47 DDB.C;46 DDB.C;45 DDB.C;44
Interrupt
$
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 10:05, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2021-10-20 04:14, Robert Armstrong wrote:
--
https://www.qrz.com/db/M0NOM/P
? I can?t seem to reach it. It?s not a big
problem, but I wondered
if it was my issue or somebody else?s?
Seems there have been some network issues at the University on and off
the last day or so.
Also affecting this mailing list then, obviously.
Right now things seem to work ok again.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
925
days inactive
927
days old
21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
bob＠jfcl.com -
bqt＠softjar.se -
djm＠wiz.net.au -
john＠forecast.name -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
poolakb＠gmail.com -
roll＠stupi.com -
tomas＠prybil.se -
tommytimesharing＠gmail.com