[HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 10:02 AM Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote: The old DEC implementation is great as far as it goes. But ... Smalltalk-80 really wants a dedicated workstation like the Xerox Alto, Dorato, Star or the Tektronix 4404 (Magnolia) for which is/was designed. The Vax implementation has some rougher edges, although it is not an unpleasant experience if you ever used it on one of the other systems, you will know it. Frankly, if you want to experiment with the language and environment itself, I would recommend a more modern implementation called Squeak <https://squeak.org/downloads/> which runs on Mac OS, Linux or Winders and natively uses current graphics and integrates better - reminds me more of the experience from the original. That said, if your desire to see what the fuss was about in the early 1980's, the DEC version is fine; but you are likely to have to spend some time trying to get all the pieces you need to run it assembled and working; whereas Squeak should just install on a modern computer. Either way, as much as I like the >>language<< you will find the big problem with it is that its a closed environment/walled garden. In fact, I have observed I never knew a single production system that used it, other than some small demonstrations at Xerox. It is a great prototyping language and I know a number of EE/CAD tools that were originally written in Smalltalk but when they moved to a real vendor (Cadence then called SDA), they were re-implemented in C++. FWIW: It had an interesting effect on the designers of Java. While JAVA had it's JVM, they were careful to ensure that Java apps could integrate into the 'system' around them, which Smalltalk-80 (and Squeak also) does not do well. Have fun, Clem PS I have a running argument with some of the Smalltalk evangelists (in particular like Richard Conto - whom I really respect and usually agree on most things). Richard thinks Smalltalk/Squeak the best teaching language/the first experience. I agree with him that it is a great teaching language (and much better than C/C++ or Python) but because of the walled garden, and frankly, I have yet found a good first book for it, I still think that Pascal/Delphi or a simple (sub-set dialect) of Java is the better place to start (although I'm starting to learn towards Go. However Go, like Smalltalk, lacks a good intro text like Clancy's "Oh Pascal" or Hansen's "Java for Everyone" to teach with).