7 Apr
2020
7 Apr
'20
2:45 p.m.
See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC research group
implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the screen with
Smalltalk running.
Begin forwarded message:
From: Nigel Williams <nw at
retroComputingTasmania.com>
Date: 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
To: John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?
?
Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
too.
...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed
within DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving copy
out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
version 4.x (might work on a later version).
cheers,
nigel.
On 2 Apr
2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I
know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of Advice" 
7 Apr
7 Apr
4:15 p.m.
On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC research group
implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the screen with
Smalltalk running.
Begin forwarded message:
> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* *Re:? VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>
> ?
>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of Advice"
>
> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
> too.
>
>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed
>> within DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
>> Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving copy
>> out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
>
> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>
> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>
> cheers,
> nigel.
Very cool.? I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the 80's.
I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
--
John H. Reinhardt
10:46 p.m.
Wow!
Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an excellent
example of VAX Macro-32 too!
I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first hurdle to
compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm thinking here
maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
Thanks, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of John
H. Reinhardt
Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC research group
implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the screen with
Smalltalk running.
Begin forwarded message:
> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* *Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>
> ?
>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of Advice"
>
> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
> too.
>
>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed within
>> DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
>> Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving
>> copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
>
> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>
> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>
> cheers,
> nigel.
Very cool. I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the 80's.
I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
--
John H. Reinhardt
11:14 p.m.
Yes, that is pretty awesome!
I don't suppose any flavor of Smalltalk ever made it over to the
PDP-10?? I think Object Oriented Lisp (Lisp with Flavors) may have made it.
There was a graphics device called a Type 340 Precision Incremental CRT
Display which was used on the PDP-6 and available on the KA-10.? I saw
one at MIT on MIT-AI (ITS).? Since Tenex started out on a KA-10, it is
available there, too.
I never heard of it on the KI-10 but I believe it was possible. For
internal memory on the 20, probably not.? Tops-20 has certain small
traces of the device.
However, SIMH does in fact implement the Type 340; apparently, fully.?
You can a pop-up window with all the dots in the right places.? I had
started investigating porting some of that code to KLH10.? One assumes
with the SIMH KL, it could be made available. It's an interesting thought.
On 4/7/20 4:46 PM, mark at wickensonline.co.uk wrote:
Wow!
Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an excellent
example of VAX Macro-32 too!
I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first hurdle
to compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm thinking
here maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
Thanks, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of John
H. Reinhardt
Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
See below for a link to a g-drive file containing
a ZIP archive of the DEC research group implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the screen with
Smalltalk running.
Begin forwarded message:
> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* *Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>
> ?
>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of Advice"
> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
> too.
>
>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed within
>> DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
>> Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving
>> copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>
> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>
> cheers,
> nigel.
Very cool. I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from
the 80's. I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have
it).
--
John H. Reinhardt
8 Apr
8 Apr
midnight
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS Workstation support... that and not having a
VT125. Remember the VMI files need to be 512 byte fixed records because they?re mapped
in.
On 7 Apr 2020, at 22:15, Thomas DeBellis
<tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote:
?Yes, that is pretty awesome!
I don't suppose any flavor of Smalltalk ever made it over to the PDP-10? I think
Object Oriented Lisp (Lisp with Flavors) may have made it.
There was a graphics device called a Type 340 Precision Incremental CRT Display which was
used on the PDP-6 and available on the KA-10. I saw one at MIT on MIT-AI (ITS). Since
Tenex started out on a KA-10, it is available there, too.
I never heard of it on the KI-10 but I believe it was possible. For internal memory on
the 20, probably not. Tops-20 has certain small traces of the device.
However, SIMH does in fact implement the Type 340; apparently, fully. You can a pop-up
window with all the dots in the right places. I had started investigating porting some of
that code to KLH10. One assumes with the SIMH KL, it could be made available. It's an
interesting thought.
> On 4/7/20 4:46 PM, mark at wickensonline.co.uk wrote:
> Wow!
>
> Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an
excellent example of VAX Macro-32 too!
> I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
> It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first
hurdle to compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm
thinking here maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
>
> Thanks, Mark.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
John H. Reinhardt
> Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
>
>> On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
>> See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC
research group implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
>>
>> If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the
screen with Smalltalk running.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
>>> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
>>> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* *Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>>>
>>> ?
>>>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of
Advice"
>>> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
>>> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
>>> too.
>>>
>>>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed within
>>>> DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
>>>> Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving
>>>> copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
>>> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>>>
>>> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
>>> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> nigel.
> Very cool. I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the 80's.
I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
>
> --
> John H. Reinhardt
>
>
12:03 a.m.
Please share what you've done Keith - is that running the pre-built executable, or
building?
I'm attempting to build it. In order to do that I have installed VWS043 which includes
a DECwindows emulation layer for VWS.
I've got to the point of linking, but there appears to be an issue linking the VAX
Macro source files with the single C source file VTHAND.C that does the VWS interface.
What I found interesting was the dates on the source files, just for reference...
Regards, Mark.
%<------------------------------
MSW at ORAC$ dir/date *.mar,*.c
Directory DISK$USERS:[MSW.SMALLTALK.SMALLTALK]
DISPATCH.MAR;2 14-DEC-1982 19:51:20.00
FASTKBIO.MAR;2 2-NOV-1981 14:09:04.00
FIRST.MAR;2 14-SEP-1981 12:43:06.00
GRAPHICS.MAR;2 18-NOV-1982 18:30:26.00
INIT.MAR;2 25-OCT-1985 19:58:10.00
INTERPRET.MAR;2 23-SEP-1982 02:06:26.00
LAST.MAR;2 14-SEP-1981 12:45:12.00
OMDATA.MAR;2 4-JAN-1982 15:18:30.00
PMON.MAR;2 28-FEB-1985 18:33:12.00
PRIMARITH.MAR;2 9-NOV-1981 17:28:14.00
PRIMARRAY.MAR;2 1-JAN-1982 17:47:10.00
PRIMCNTL.MAR;2 12-JUN-1984 19:53:16.00
PRIMFILES.MAR;2 4-MAR-1985 13:03:16.00
PRIMIO.MAR;2 25-OCT-1985 19:50:12.00
PRIMOBJEC.MAR;2 1-SEP-1982 18:00:04.00
PRIMSYS.MAR;2 19-NOV-1982 16:18:22.00
PROCESS.MAR;2 1-JAN-1982 18:24:14.00
REALMEM.MAR;2 18-NOV-1982 18:32:00.00
SMALLMACS.MAR;3 7-APR-2020 21:16:21.65
TTSUBS.MAR;2 25-OCT-1985 19:54:08.00
VMSFILES.MAR;2 22-NOV-1982 21:39:18.00
CVTSMALL.C;2 30-NOV-1981 16:32:14.00
CVTSOURCE.C;2 9-NOV-1981 21:11:26.00
CVTSRC.C;3 7-APR-2020 21:39:48.16
HACKER.C;2 11-FEB-1982 17:28:26.00
MAKER.C;2 30-NOV-1981 18:27:04.00
STY.C;2 13-JUN-1984 13:31:30.00
VTHAND.C;2 21-MAY-1987 18:15:18.00
Total of 28 files.
MSW at ORAC$
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Keith
Halewood
Sent: 07 April 2020 23:01
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS Workstation support... that and not having a
VT125. Remember the VMI files need to be 512 byte fixed records because they?re mapped
in.
On 7 Apr 2020, at 22:15, Thomas DeBellis
<tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote:
?Yes, that is pretty awesome!
I don't suppose any flavor of Smalltalk ever made it over to the PDP-10? I think
Object Oriented Lisp (Lisp with Flavors) may have made it.
There was a graphics device called a Type 340 Precision Incremental CRT Display which was
used on the PDP-6 and available on the KA-10. I saw one at MIT on MIT-AI (ITS). Since
Tenex started out on a KA-10, it is available there, too.
I never heard of it on the KI-10 but I believe it was possible. For internal memory on
the 20, probably not. Tops-20 has certain small traces of the device.
However, SIMH does in fact implement the Type 340; apparently, fully. You can a pop-up
window with all the dots in the right places. I had started investigating porting some of
that code to KLH10. One assumes with the SIMH KL, it could be made available. It's an
interesting thought.
> On 4/7/20 4:46 PM, mark at wickensonline.co.uk wrote:
> Wow!
>
> Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an
excellent example of VAX Macro-32 too!
> I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
> It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first
hurdle to compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm
thinking here maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
>
> Thanks, Mark.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
> Of John H. Reinhardt
> Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
>
>> On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
>> See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC
research group implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
>>
>> If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the
screen with Smalltalk running.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
>>> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
>>> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* *Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>>>
>>> ?
>>>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of
Advice"
>>> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
>>> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical
>>> Journal too.
>>>
>>>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed
>>>> within DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by
>>>> Stoney Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a
>>>> surviving copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin
with?
>>> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>>>
>>> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
>>> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> nigel.
> Very cool. I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the 80's.
I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
>
> --
> John H. Reinhardt
>
>
12:18 a.m.
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is compatible with the
VT125 or not.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 6:08 PM Nigel Williams <nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>
wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:01 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS
Workstation support... that and
not having a VT125.
I had a recollection that MAME had in-built VT125 graphics support?
12:42 a.m.
Partially. They both use ReGIS and that part is very compatible, but
there is some difference on how graphics and text mix, if I remember right.
The VT330 and 340 are also somewhat similar. There are some different
behavior on some details in ReGIS for those, but most software works
fine on them too.
Johnny
On 2020-04-08 00:18, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 6:08 PM Nigel Williams
<nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com <mailto:nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>>
wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:01 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at
pitbulluk.org>>
wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS
Workstation support...
that and not having a VT125.
I had a recollection that MAME had in-built VT125 graphics support?
1:50 a.m.
Yes, In 1980s, I had a computer graphics class at my university. I wrote a program to
display Lissajous on VT125 and VT240 terminal by using ReGIS language and Tek 4207 color
graphics terminal by using ! commands.
Does anyone have any emulator with Tek 4207 graphics terminal? I only found Tek 4207
technical and user manual so far. That provides complete technical information for
developing Tek4207 emulator but still need firmware images.
Microfocus have some Reflection products emulate VT240, VT330 and VT340. I was looking
for vendor that sells but can't find any....
There is a free copy of MS Kermit that emulates Tek 4010/4014 and Sixel. They are
available on Columbia's FTP site.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 6:43 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Partially. They both use ReGIS and that part is very compatible, but there is some
difference on how graphics and text mix, if I remember right.
The VT330 and 340 are also somewhat similar. There are some different behavior on some
details in ReGIS for those, but most software works fine on them too.
Johnny
On 2020-04-08 00:18, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 6:08 PM Nigel Williams
<nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com <mailto:nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>>
wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:01 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at
pitbulluk.org>>
wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS
Workstation support...
that and not having a VT125.
I had a recollection that MAME had in-built VT125 graphics support?
5:34 p.m.
I don't know if you have seen this...
https://github.com/rricharz/Tek4010
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf Of Timothy Stark
Sent: 08 April 2020 00:51
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Yes, In 1980s, I had a computer graphics class at my university. I wrote a
program to display Lissajous on VT125 and VT240 terminal by using ReGIS
language and Tek 4207 color graphics terminal by using ! commands.
Does anyone have any emulator with Tek 4207 graphics terminal? I only
found Tek 4207 technical and user manual so far. That provides complete
technical information for developing Tek4207 emulator but still need
firmware images.
Microfocus have some Reflection products emulate VT240, VT330 and VT340.
I was looking for vendor that sells but can't find any....
There is a free copy of MS Kermit that emulates Tek 4010/4014 and Sixel.
They are available on Columbia's FTP site.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 6:43 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Partially. They both use ReGIS and that part is very compatible, but there is
some difference on how graphics and text mix, if I remember right.
The VT330 and 340 are also somewhat similar. There are some different
behavior on some details in ReGIS for those, but most software works fine
on them too.
Johnny
On 2020-04-08 00:18, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether
that is compatible with
the VT125 or not.
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 6:08 PM Nigel Williams
<nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com
<mailto:nw at
retrocomputingtasmania.com>>
wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:01 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org
<mailto:Keith.Halewood at
pitbulluk.org>>
wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS
Workstation support...
that and not having a VT125.
I had a recollection that MAME had in-built VT125 graphics support?
2:05 a.m.
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
4:10 a.m.
I've heard tell that "Plain old xterm supports Sixel and ReGIS if it is
compiled with --enable-sixel-graphics and --enable-regis-graphics."
Most distributions apparently do not do this.? I don't happen to have
those particular sources handy, so I can not verify this.
On 4/7/20 8:05 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:
Mame has VT240
support, I am not sure whether that is compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github
and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
5:19 a.m.
I know the person who did the support for this. You need a rather recent
version of xterm. It was only done a couple of years ago...
Johnny
On 2020-04-08 04:10, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
I've heard tell that "Plain old xterm
supports Sixel and ReGIS if it is
compiled with --enable-sixel-graphics and --enable-regis-graphics."
Most distributions apparently do not do this.? I don't happen to have
those particular sources handy, so I can not verify this.
On 4/7/20 8:05 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:
>> Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is compatible with
>> the VT125 or not.
> Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and
> Mamedev.org).
>
> Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
>
> Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125
> version but it is flagged as not working at this time.
> That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font
> images.? They had software at my university to teach students how to
> spell Russian words as foreign language.
>
> Tim
>
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
5:28 a.m.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I know the person who did the support for this. You
need a rather recent
version of xterm. It was only done a couple of years ago...
Looks like it landed in 2013/2014? agree fairly recent in Linux time:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2014/05/msg00030.html
5:35 a.m.
On 2020-04-08 05:28, Nigel Williams wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
Bloody hell. Time flies way too fast. That force me to realize that a
lot of things happened since... In my head it was more recent, but
thinking about it makes me realize it must have been at that time (well,
the commit really says it has had to be that time).
In my head it was more recent that I was having the discussions with the
guy, but I haven't actually worked close to him for about 6 years now...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I know the person who did the support for this.
You need a rather recent
version of xterm. It was only done a couple of years ago...
Looks like it landed in 2013/2014? agree fairly recent in Linux time:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-x/2014/05/msg00030.html
8:23 a.m.
Interesting to hear there is an emulation of the VK100 aka GIGI.
I had one for a while a few years ago. It was quite a fascinating beast, but very much
'cost reduced', as much as DEC ever went down that road.
My HP thin client I think falls into the same bracket - it has just failed and is my
Windows XP throwback box that allows me to run Exceed and Reflection with full support for
the LK450, so it looks like I'm going to have to find another one on the internet or
solve the problem with this one!
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Timothy Stark
Sent: 08 April 2020 01:05
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
4:02 p.m.
mark at wickensonline.co.uk <mark at
wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Interesting to hear there is an emulation of the VK100 aka GIGI.
I had one for a while a few years ago. It was quite a fascinating beast
I had a GiGi once too, but I sold it long ago. Really regret doing that now; it was a
nice little machine with Microsoft BASIC and a great keyboard...
I do have a real VT241 though, with the color monitor. I should try Smalltalk, but I
don't know anything about the language.
Bob
4:35 p.m.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 10:02 AM Robert Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
I should try Smalltalk, but I don't know anything
about the language.
The old DEC implementation is great as far as it goes. But ...
Smalltalk-80 really wants a dedicated workstation like the Xerox Alto,
Dorato, Star or the Tektronix 4404 (Magnolia) for which is/was designed.
The Vax implementation has some rougher edges, although it is not an
unpleasant experience if you ever used it on one of the other systems, you
will know it. Frankly, if you want to experiment with the language and
environment itself, I would recommend a more modern implementation called
Squeak <https://squeak.org/downloads/> which runs on Mac OS, Linux or
Winders and natively uses current graphics and integrates better - reminds
me more of the experience from the original.
That said, if your desire to see what the fuss was about in the early
1980's, the DEC version is fine; but you are likely to have to spend some
time trying to get all the pieces you need to run it assembled and working;
whereas Squeak should just install on a modern computer.
Either way, as much as I like the >>language<< you will find the big
problem with it is that its a closed environment/walled garden. In fact,
I have observed I never knew a single production system that used it, other
than some small demonstrations at Xerox. It is a great prototyping
language and I know a number of EE/CAD tools that were originally written
in Smalltalk but when they moved to a real vendor (Cadence then called
SDA), they were re-implemented in C++.
FWIW: It had an interesting effect on the designers of Java. While JAVA
had it's JVM, they were careful to ensure that Java apps could integrate
into the 'system' around them, which Smalltalk-80 (and Squeak also) does
not do well.
Have fun,
Clem
PS I have a running argument with some of the Smalltalk evangelists (in
particular like Richard Conto - whom I really respect and usually agree on
most things). Richard thinks Smalltalk/Squeak the best teaching
language/the first experience. I agree with him that it is a great
teaching language (and much better than C/C++ or Python) but because of the
walled garden, and frankly, I have yet found a good first book for it, I
still think that Pascal/Delphi or a simple (sub-set dialect) of Java is the
better place to start (although I'm starting to learn towards Go. However
Go, like Smalltalk, lacks a good intro text like Clancy's "Oh Pascal" or
Hansen's "Java for Everyone" to teach with).
4:05 p.m.
Hi,
In DUNE::[.SMALLTALK], I've cleaned up the weirdness in the source files and
there's a build.com to be used in conjunction with link.com. Everything else is
original apart from the file attributes of the vmi files.
I don't have the UI library. I did a bit of stubbing locally then remembered more
about stepping around with the debugger than I thought I ever knew. If you define the
logical lib to point to where the UI stuff is, it should presumably work.
My main interest in all of this was the interpreter and the use of sections etc.. More
stuff I'd forgotten.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of mark
at wickensonline.co.uk
Sent: 08 April 2020 07:23
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Interesting to hear there is an emulation of the VK100 aka GIGI.
I had one for a while a few years ago. It was quite a fascinating beast, but very much
'cost reduced', as much as DEC ever went down that road.
My HP thin client I think falls into the same bracket - it has just failed and is my
Windows XP throwback box that allows me to run Exceed and Reflection with full support for
the LK450, so it looks like I'm going to have to find another one on the internet or
solve the problem with this one!
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Timothy Stark
Sent: 08 April 2020 01:05
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
4:20 p.m.
I meant to add, for the record, I hate Smalltalk.
Now if only someone could magically find a copy of the VAX/VMS Algol68 RS compiler,
I'd be *so* happy.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of
Keith Halewood
Sent: 08 April 2020 15:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Hi,
In DUNE::[.SMALLTALK], I've cleaned up the weirdness in the source files and
there's a build.com to be used in conjunction with link.com. Everything else is
original apart from the file attributes of the vmi files.
I don't have the UI library. I did a bit of stubbing locally then remembered more
about stepping around with the debugger than I thought I ever knew. If you define the
logical lib to point to where the UI stuff is, it should presumably work.
My main interest in all of this was the interpreter and the use of sections etc.. More
stuff I'd forgotten.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of mark
at wickensonline.co.uk
Sent: 08 April 2020 07:23
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Interesting to hear there is an emulation of the VK100 aka GIGI.
I had one for a while a few years ago. It was quite a fascinating beast, but very much
'cost reduced', as much as DEC ever went down that road.
My HP thin client I think falls into the same bracket - it has just failed and is my
Windows XP throwback box that allows me to run Exceed and Reflection with full support for
the LK450, so it looks like I'm going to have to find another one on the internet or
solve the problem with this one!
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Timothy Stark
Sent: 08 April 2020 01:05
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
11:23 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:32 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
Now if only someone could magically find a copy of the
VAX/VMS Algol68 RS compiler, I'd be *so* happy.
you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68RS
"The compiler was written in ALGOL 68, bootstrapped initially using
the ALGOL 68R compiler."
11:41 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
That?s the one.
I?ve been in contact with the two companies that took over various aspects/projects from
RSRE - DSTL and Altran UK - but the enquiries dwindled into silence as have several
requests from universities I knew had the compiler back in the day, including my own
Liverpool.
I haven?t quite lost hope but I?m getting there.
On 8 Apr 2020, at 22:24, Nigel Williams <nw at
retrocomputingtasmania.com> wrote:
?On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:32 AM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
Now if only someone could magically find a copy
of the VAX/VMS Algol68 RS compiler, I'd be *so* happy.
you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68RS
"The compiler was written in ALGOL 68, bootstrapped initially using
the ALGOL 68R compiler."
11:48 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
I believe Multics had an implementation.? It's possible you might find
something there.
This is a pointer to an Algol 68 preservation effort. Presumably, you've
already chased a few of these down?
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol68impl
On 4/8/20 5:41 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
That?s the one.
I?ve been in contact with the two companies that took over various aspects/projects from
RSRE - DSTL and Altran UK - but the enquiries dwindled into silence as have several
requests from universities I knew had the compiler back in the day, including my own
Liverpool.
I haven?t quite lost hope but I?m getting there.
> On 8 Apr 2020, at 22:24, Nigel Williams <nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>
wrote:
>
> ?On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:32 AM Keith Halewood
> <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
>> Now if only someone could magically find a copy of the VAX/VMS Algol68 RS
compiler, I'd be *so* happy.
> you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68RS
>
> "The compiler was written in ALGOL 68, bootstrapped initially using
> the ALGOL 68R compiler."
11:58 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
There is also an Agol68 to C converter. I have never tried it. It is
supposed to accept the Algol68RS dialect. If you search on the term
"algol68 download" you should find it immediately.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:49 PM Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com>
wrote:
I believe Multics had an implementation. It's
possible you might find
something there.
This is a pointer to an Algol 68 preservation effort. Presumably, you've
already chased a few of these down?
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol68impl
On 4/8/20 5:41 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
That?s the one.
I?ve been in contact with the two companies that took over various
aspects/projects from RSRE - DSTL and Altran UK - but the enquiries
dwindled into silence as have several requests from universities I knew had
the compiler back in the day, including my own Liverpool.
I haven?t quite lost hope but I?m getting there.
> On 8 Apr 2020, at 22:24, Nigel Williams <nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>
wrote:
>
> ?On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:32 AM Keith Halewood
> <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
>> Now if only someone could magically find a copy of the VAX/VMS Algol68
RS
compiler, I'd be *so* happy.
> you mean this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68RS
>
> "The compiler was written in ALGOL 68, bootstrapped initially using
> the ALGOL 68R compiler."
9 Apr
9 Apr
9:28 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
Been there. Done that. In space nobody can hear your sigh of disappointment. Sorry :)
It?s particularly sad in that one of the developers in the original project died fairly
recently.
I live in hope still that I can find the compiler I used.
On 8 Apr 2020, at 22:59, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
?
There is also an Agol68 to C converter. I have never tried it. It is supposed to accept
the Algol68RS dialect. If you search on the term "algol68 download" you should
find it immediately.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:49 PM Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at
gmail.com<mailto:tommytimesharing at gmail.com>> wrote:
I believe Multics had an implementation. It's possible you might find
something there.
This is a pointer to an Algol 68 preservation effort. Presumably, you've
already chased a few of these down?
http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/ALGOL/algol68impl
On 4/8/20 5:41 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
That?s the one.
I?ve been in contact with the two companies that took over various aspects/projects from
RSRE - DSTL and Altran UK - but the enquiries dwindled into silence as have several
requests from universities I knew had the compiler back in the day, including my own
Liverpool.
I haven?t quite lost hope but I?m getting there.
> On 8 Apr 2020, at 22:24, Nigel Williams <nw at
retrocomputingtasmania.com<mailto:nw at retrocomputingtasmania.com>> wrote:
>
> ?On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:32 AM Keith Halewood
> <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org<mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>>
wrote:
>> Now if only someone could magically find a copy of the VAX/VMS Algol68 RS
compiler, I'd be *so* happy.
> you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68RS
>
> "The compiler was written in ALGOL 68, bootstrapped initially using
> the ALGOL 68R compiler."
10:32 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 3:28 PM Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>
wrote:
Been there. Done that. In space nobody can hear your
sigh of
disappointment. Sorry :)
That's fair.
It?s particularly sad in that one of the developers in the original
project died fairly recently.
I live in hope still that I can find the compiler I used.
Good hunting.
10 Apr
10 Apr
12:03 a.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
I would like to find the Algol 68C port for the DECSYSTEM-20 that I used in the late 70s.
I don?t hold out much hope now though.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Clem
Cole
Sent: 09 April 2020 21:32
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] ALGOL 68 RS?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 3:28 PM Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org
<mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> > wrote:
Been there. Done that. In space nobody can hear your sigh of disappointment. Sorry :)
That's fair.
It?s particularly sad in that one of the developers in the original project died fairly
recently.
I live in hope still that I can find the compiler I used.
Good hunting.
1:54 a.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
One of these days I hope to be able to run the MC Algol-68 interpreter (written in
Algol60).
Meanwhile, if you want Algol-68 but are willing to put up with a modern machine,
there's an Algol-68 for Linux available.
paul
On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:03 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
I would like to find the Algol 68C port for the DECSYSTEM-20 that I used in the late 70s.
I don?t hold out much hope now though.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>> On Behalf
Of Clem Cole
Sent: 09 April 2020 21:32
To: hecnet at update.uu.se <mailto:hecnet at update.uu.se>
Subject: Re: [HECnet] ALGOL 68 RS?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 3:28 PM Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org
<mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>> wrote:
Been there. Done that. In space nobody can hear
your sigh of disappointment. Sorry :)
That's fair.
It?s particularly sad in that one of the developers in the original project died fairly
recently.
I live in hope still that I can find the compiler I used.
Good hunting.
4:36 a.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
What's it written in?
On 4/9/20 7:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
One of these days I hope to be able to run the MC
Algol-68 interpreter
(written in Algol60).
Meanwhile, if you want Algol-68 but are willing to put up with a
modern machine, there's an Algol-68 for Linux available.
paul
On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:03 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com
<mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>> wrote:
I would like to find the Algol 68C port for the DECSYSTEM-20 that I
used in the late 70s. I don?t hold out much hope now though.
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE><owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>>*On Behalf Of*Clem Cole
*Sent:*09 April 2020 21:32
*To:*hecnet at update.uu.se <mailto:hecnet at update.uu.se>
*Subject:*Re: [HECnet] ALGOL 68 RS?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 3:28 PM Keith Halewood
<Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org <mailto:Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>>
wrote:
Been there. Done that. In space nobody can hear
your sigh of
disappointment. Sorry :)
That's fair.
It?s particularly sad in that one of the
developers in the original
project died fairly recently.
I live in hope still that I can find the compiler I used.
Good hunting.
3:44 p.m.
New subject: ALGOL 68 RS?
On Apr 9, 2020, at 10:36 PM, Thomas DeBellis
<tommytimesharing at gmail.com> wrote:
What's it written in?
On 4/9/20 7:54 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> One of these days I hope to be able to run the MC Algol-68 interpreter (written in
Algol60).
>
> Meanwhile, if you want Algol-68 but are willing to put up with a modern machine,
there's an Algol-68 for Linux available.
>
> paul
It's called "algol68g", a "compiler-interpreter" written in C.
The code is surprisingly small.
paul
8 Apr
8 Apr
5:09 p.m.
Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org>
wrote:
In DUNE::[.SMALLTALK], I've cleaned up the weirdness in the source files ...
Sorry, I'm a little late to this party. Where is the ReGIS/VT125 version? I copied
Keith's files, but these appear to be for the UIS version. The .TXT file in the
original ZIP file talks about a BIG32.EXE and a SMALL32.EXE, but these don't seem to
be in the ZIP.
Thanks,
Bob
5:16 p.m.
I think it?s the virus talking but I was thinking of something perverse - lo-res with
vt100 and the smg$ routines.
Perhaps I?ll have a sleep and hopefully forget all about it.
On 8 Apr 2020, at 16:09, Robert Armstrong <bob at
jfcl.com> wrote:
?
Keith Halewood <Keith.Halewood at pitbulluk.org> wrote:
In DUNE::[.SMALLTALK], I've cleaned up the weirdness in the source files ...
Sorry, I'm a little late to this party. Where is the ReGIS/VT125 version? I copied
Keith's files, but these appear to be for the UIS version. The .TXT file in the
original ZIP file talks about a BIG32.EXE and a SMALL32.EXE, but these don't seem to
be in the ZIP.
Thanks,
Bob
9:19 p.m.
Thanks for that Keith
I've copied the files and will compare with the progress I've made.
For the record the VWS043 distribution contains a VWS emulation layer for X11. I'm
going to try that first.
Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Keith
Halewood
Sent: 08 April 2020 15:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Hi,
In DUNE::[.SMALLTALK], I've cleaned up the weirdness in the source files and
there's a build.com to be used in conjunction with link.com. Everything else is
original apart from the file attributes of the vmi files.
I don't have the UI library. I did a bit of stubbing locally then remembered more
about stepping around with the debugger than I thought I ever knew. If you define the
logical lib to point to where the UI stuff is, it should presumably work.
My main interest in all of this was the interpreter and the use of sections etc.. More
stuff I'd forgotten.
Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of mark
at wickensonline.co.uk
Sent: 08 April 2020 07:23
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Interesting to hear there is an emulation of the VK100 aka GIGI.
I had one for a while a few years ago. It was quite a fascinating beast, but very much
'cost reduced', as much as DEC ever went down that road.
My HP thin client I think falls into the same bracket - it has just failed and is my
Windows XP throwback box that allows me to run Exceed and Reflection with full support for
the LK450, so it looks like I'm going to have to find another one on the internet or
solve the problem with this one!
Regards, Mark.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Timothy Stark
Sent: 08 April 2020 01:05
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
Mame has VT240 support, I am not sure whether that is
compatible with
the VT125 or not.
Yes, I looked into MAME source code (it is available on Github and Mamedev.org).
Yes, it has some VT125 codes but not enabled yet.
Also I found another VK100 emulation called "GIGI" - extended VT125 version but
it is flagged as not working at this time.
That came with BASIC interpreter itself and has programmable font images. They had
software at my university to teach students how to spell Russian words as foreign
language.
Tim
12:23 a.m.
I have a VT125, I'd love to try this at some point.
-Dave
On 4/7/20 6:00 PM, Keith Halewood wrote:
I got it ?working? but missing the uVMS Workstation
support... that and not having a VT125. Remember the VMI files need to be 512 byte fixed
records because they?re mapped in.
> On 7 Apr 2020, at 22:15, Thomas DeBellis <tommytimesharing at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> ?Yes, that is pretty awesome!
>
> I don't suppose any flavor of Smalltalk ever made it over to the PDP-10? I think
Object Oriented Lisp (Lisp with Flavors) may have made it.
>
> There was a graphics device called a Type 340 Precision Incremental CRT Display which
was used on the PDP-6 and available on the KA-10. I saw one at MIT on MIT-AI (ITS).
Since Tenex started out on a KA-10, it is available there, too.
>
> I never heard of it on the KI-10 but I believe it was possible. For internal memory
on the 20, probably not. Tops-20 has certain small traces of the device.
>
> However, SIMH does in fact implement the Type 340; apparently, fully. You can a
pop-up window with all the dots in the right places. I had started investigating porting
some of that code to KLH10. One assumes with the SIMH KL, it could be made available.
It's an interesting thought.
>
>> On 4/7/20 4:46 PM, mark at wickensonline.co.uk wrote:
>> Wow!
>>
>> Thank you for this! Not only is Smalltalk interesting in itself, but this an
excellent example of VAX Macro-32 too!
>> I will attempt to assemble + compile the application.
>> It looks like it is using VS II user interface libraries. That will be the first
hurdle to compile it on a machine with the appropriate library and graphics - I'm
thinking here maybe on of Matt's graphical versions of SIMH?
>>
>> Thanks, Mark.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of John H. Reinhardt
>> Sent: 07 April 2020 15:15
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] VAX/Smalltalk-80
>>
>>> On 4/7/2020 7:45 AM, Nigel Williams wrote:
>>> See below for a link to a g-drive file containing a ZIP archive of the DEC
research group implementation of Smalltalk for the VAX.
>>>
>>> If someone has a VT125 to try it on I would appreciate seeing an image of the
screen with Smalltalk running.
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> *From:* Nigel Williams <nw at retroComputingTasmania.com>
>>>> *Date:* 7 April 2020 at 10:33:55 pm AEST
>>>> *To:* John Ames <commodorejohn at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* *Re: VAX/Smalltalk-80?*
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>>> On 2 Apr 2020, at 10:08 am, John Ames via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>>> I know from the book "Smalltalk-80: Bits of History, Words of
Advice"
>>>> Thanks for the reminder about the VMS version, as you likely know
>>>> their paper about VAX Smalltalk was in an early DEC Technical Journal
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>> ...while the second ran under VMS and was actually developed within
>>>>> DEC. This version - VAX/Smalltalk-80 - was headed up by Stoney
>>>>> Ballard and Stephen Shirron; anybody know if there's a surviving
>>>>> copy out there, if it was ever available outside DEC to begin with?
>>>> I contacted Stephen and he kindly provided a ZIP
>>>>
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NvO-ULropJ9xyT-WFqalXY79FBt6tdfB
>>>>
>>>> I had a quick look and it will need an early VMS I suspect, around
>>>> version 4.x (might work on a later version).
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> nigel.
>> Very cool. I have the three (?) popular books about smalltalk-80 from the
80's. I'll have to dig them out along with the DEC Tech Journal (If I have it).
>>
>> --
>> John H. Reinhardt
>>
>>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
1499
days inactive
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participants (14)
-
bob＠jfcl.com -
bqt＠softjar.se -
clemc＠ccc.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
fsword007＠gmail.com -
johnhreinhardt＠thereinhardts.org -
Keith.Halewood＠pitbulluk.org -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
nw＠retrocomputingtasmania.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
raywjewhurst＠gmail.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
tommytimesharing＠gmail.com