19 Oct
2021
19 Oct
'21
10:34 p.m.
The last version or so of Tops-10 appears to have supported user mode
extended addressing, which could imply that either the microcode was
modified to implement Tops-10's semantics or Tops-10 was modified to use
the Tops-20 microcode.
I think the later happened.? Microcode releases were less frequent than
monitor releases as I recall, perhaps far less frequent.
The physical memory is the same between the KL and KI ten, so maybe that
part of Tops-10 didn't need to change too much.? Doing sections would
have had significant impact, however.
On 10/18/21 9:43 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I have some vague recollection that T10 in the last
incarnation(s)
could use the KL10 paging, but I could be remembering wrong.
But maybe there are some other T10 people around who might/could know...
? Johnny
On 2021-10-19 01:13, Peter Lothberg wrote:
This is kind of a bit off topic.. But...
So I have a lot of T10 7.02 based code for KI10 (using tops10 KI
paging...). None of the PDP10 emulators do T10 KI paging..
7.03 has lots of internal changes that did not work on KI, so back
ported? DECnet 4 etc from 7.03 to 7.02 (remember we had KI CPU's..)
Was there 7.02 that used KL10/Tops20 paging? I don't have the dist
tapes any longer?
Or is there a PDP10 emulator that do KI Tops10 paging that would run
my 7.02?
--P
So what's the actual T20 patch for NOV 2021 DECnet?
Ps, tops10 does not? "cross compile" between versions well (or at all..)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
??? *From: *"tommytimesharing" <tommytimesharing at gmail.com>
??? *To: *"hecnet" <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
??? *Sent: *Monday, October 18, 2021 3:00:00 PM
??? *Subject: *Re: [HECnet] A2RTR downtime
??? I wouldn't worry about it; I don't use VENTI all that much,
either. ??? ?/Except/ when I do?? Then I have to tell you that it has
proven to
??? be positively invaluable and I am very grateful for that!
??? If this were critical, then I'd think about getting off my butt and
??? putting up Tops-10 somewhere on one of my home systems.? But that
??? would blow a lot of time; I haven't done a MONGEN since?well, I
??? honestly can't remember?it's well over four decades and I never knew
??? that part of it well to begin with.??? Come to think of it, I might
??? have been doing a ONCE and not a MONGEN.
??? Actually, having a guest account on other HECnet systems has also
??? proved invaluable for chasing down arcane Tops-20 issues. Thanks
all!!
??? I reached out to Lars Brinkhoff concerning my Tops-10 patch and he
??? said he would distribute wherever it made "sense" to do so. If I
??? get any feedback, I will forward it.? Otherwise, let me know if
??? there is any way I can provide assistance.
??? Yes, it is a shame about the STOPCODE, but it would appear that the
??? maintainer had some different ideas in the mid-1980's when this code
??? was put in about what the usage of Tops-10 would be.? This comment
??? is illustrative, the first sentence being key:
??????? _I doubt very much that the date itself has really gone past
??????? 2021_.? Probably someone smashed an AC or the routine to get the
??????? time from the monitor is returning junk. However, on November 9,
??????? 2021, it appears that many people will see this problem so
??????? prepare your SPR for that date.
??? I think the problem is that Tops-10 didn't have the kind of die-hard
??? fanatics supporting it (read, MRC) that Tops-10 did, so stuff like
??? this was caught and fixed years ago.? D36COM has an edit date of
??? 2001 for this, but since it is from Gorin, it's probably older.
??? I continue to find Y2K things to clean up, these days mostly in the
??? listings from various compilers and the remaining CUSP's that MRC
??? didn't catch.
??? Another thing I fix are internal time of day comparisons. This is
??? stored as an unsigned 36 bit fixed fraction having resolution to
??? about ? of a second, 35 bits bringing you to 27-Sep-2217 20:00:00
??? EST US, the full 36 taking you to 7-Aug-2576 19:59:59 EST US.? Since
??? the PDP-10 only has signed comparisons, all single comparison
??? arithmetic will break in a mere 195 years.? Fixing that double word
??? signed compares has given me some more breathing room.? In 554
??? years, I'm sure I'll have thought of something else?
??????? ****
------------------------------------------------------------------------
??????? On 10/18/21 11:19 AM, Robert Armstrong wrote:
??????? ***
??????????? *Second* is VENTI; I had wanted to test something on it and
??????????? it doesn't appear to be online.
??????? *
??????? Sorry, I?m somewhat lazy about booting it up when the host
??????? system is rebooted.? I don?t use VENTI that much.
??????? **
??????????? Had you had any interest in trying it?
??????? It sounds like I?m going to have to.? It?s a shame this STOPCODE
??????? was a halt and not just a debug one; at least the latter would
??????? have allowed the system to continue running.
??????? This also means I have to re-discover how to do a MONGEN and
??????? build.? There was a time, 30 years ago (actually, 40 years ago)
??????? when I could have done it from memory but now I?ll have to read
??????? the manual again