On 8 Jan 2013, at 14:45, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 01/08/2013 02:38 PM, G. wrote:
I've always wondered about VMS sources: how they are actually distributed
today and how much space they take? Is a CD-ROM enough for everything? And in
which format are they? Just simple text files in a bunch of directories or
there is something fancier such as some cross references and indexes?
They used to make source *listings* available on fiche; I have several
sets of those. It's a stack of fiche maybe 3-4" thick.
How old are these "listings"?
But the main question is: where can they be obtained? Is HP still selling them
and how much they would cost? A figure with too many zeroes, right? :/
For a currently-developed high-end OS for high-end hardware in the
application space in which VMS is typically used, yes, lots of zeros.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> writes:
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charset=ISO-8859-1
I think I remember that believe Bob got one of the much older (Vax)
versions sprung free with a hobbyist license on a CD. It was not clear
how useful/complete it was, since it lacked the build environment.
In the early days, VMS source was shipped on 9-track tape with VMS. I
remember perusing the contents when I worked at my Uncle Sam's US Navy
Automated Test Program Generation and Automated Test Equipment Division
at Lakehurst NAEC... Today, however, only the listings are provided and
they are sanitized to elide some IP and things like the LMF.
Current sources are still protected HP IP
Correct.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
These URL were being passed along on one of the Alumni lists and I though this group might find them entraining. My memory is these were made in the last 1970s/early 1980s.
Each is a few minutes long. The first to are for removing bad blocks, the later is a breakfast cereal.
DEC-paste
https://www.youtube.com/v/tKU0ivYxq_I&hl
DEC-Wash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOphzme6EDw
Digi-Bits <-- a little long but some good stuff in it, particularly shots at the sales force
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E91Cyo6HOxs
A few days ago a "TELL 1.13 SHOW KNOWN NODES" from 42.42 BET:: was very slow. It's probably 4 times faster now. I don't know if I'm passing through your part of the net to get to Johnny.
Ian
On 2013-01-08, at 11:48 AM, Peter Lothberg <roll at Stupi.SE> wrote:
Dave, do you se and improvement/degradation of the
cisco-tunnel-to-johhny-bridged-ethernet part of Hecnet?
-P
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G. <gerry77 at mail.com> writes:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:47:03 -0500, you wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:=20 >=20 > >What exactly
does that mean?=20 >=20 > I just too a look at the NCP sources.
Sorry for this somewhat off topic message, but I've seen that from time
= to time some chit-chat is allowed...
I've always wondered about VMS sources: how they are actually
distributed today and how much space they take? Is a CD-ROM enough for
everything? = And in which format are they? Just simple text files in a
bunch of directories = or there is something fancier such as some cross
references and indexes?
They are referred to as the OpenVMS LISTING because that's what they are;
the listings from the various assembler, compiler and utilities which are
used to build VMS.
But the main question is: where can they be obtained? Is HP still
selling= them and how much they would cost? A figure with too many
zeroes, right? :/
You need to first sign and pay for a source listings license agreement.
Back many years ago, IIRC, it was about $2K. There's then maintenance
that must be paid yearly to get the listings CDs/DVDs when produced.
Depending upon what you do with VMS, these listings are invaluable.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
I think I remember that believe Bob got one of the much older (Vax) versions sprung free with a hobbyist license on a CD. It was not clear how useful/complete it was, since it lacked the build environment.
Current sources are still protected HP IP
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 01/08/2013 02:38 PM, G. wrote:
> I've always wondered about VMS sources: how they are actually distributed
> today and how much space they take? Is a CD-ROM enough for everything? And in
> which format are they? Just simple text files in a bunch of directories or
> there is something fancier such as some cross references and indexes?
They used to make source *listings* available on fiche; I have several
sets of those. It's a stack of fiche maybe 3-4" thick.
> But the main question is: where can they be obtained? Is HP still selling them
> and how much they would cost? A figure with too many zeroes, right? :/
For a currently-developed high-end OS for high-end hardware in the
application space in which VMS is typically used, yes, lots of zeros.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 01/08/2013 02:38 PM, G. wrote:
I've always wondered about VMS sources: how they are actually distributed
today and how much space they take? Is a CD-ROM enough for everything? And in
which format are they? Just simple text files in a bunch of directories or
there is something fancier such as some cross references and indexes?
They used to make source *listings* available on fiche; I have several
sets of those. It's a stack of fiche maybe 3-4" thick.
But the main question is: where can they be obtained? Is HP still selling them
and how much they would cost? A figure with too many zeroes, right? :/
For a currently-developed high-end OS for high-end hardware in the
application space in which VMS is typically used, yes, lots of zeros.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:47:03 -0500, you wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
What exactly does that mean?
I just too a look at the NCP sources.
Sorry for this somewhat off topic message, but I've seen that from time to
time some chit-chat is allowed...
I've always wondered about VMS sources: how they are actually distributed
today and how much space they take? Is a CD-ROM enough for everything? And in
which format are they? Just simple text files in a bunch of directories or
there is something fancier such as some cross references and indexes?
But the main question is: where can they be obtained? Is HP still selling them
and how much they would cost? A figure with too many zeroes, right? :/
Thanks, :)
G.
The parent code base (Locus TNC) been in BSD and Mach before. As I mentioned it was in HP-UX and the Intel SSD Paragon is based on the same code. Frank Mayhar was at one time working in a FreeBSD port. Tandem/HP shipped the Unixware version and post merger Bruce started to work on the Linux port - hence the OpenSSI project.
Assume a Cluster File System for uniform name space (NFS will work to start with but is not good enough in the long run), a membership service (aka CMS) and a cluster wide internode communications service (ICS), the process code can be moved in about 2-3 months of work. Basically, you have to perform heavy surgery on the process code and add the vproc layer (think vfs layer that added to support multiple FS). Once you have a proper hooks, then the process code is pretty much the same - modulo differences in memory systems.
At Locus we had it all in 14 "packages" [with two - CMS & ICS - being required]. The others were ala cart. Intel took the process technology, DEC primarily took the filing stuff, and Tandem took everything.
Clem
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On 1/6/2013 8:04 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
well the cluster stuff that TruCluster is based is already FOSS. checkout OpenSSI.org. sadly that tree is dead/or nearly so. Bruce stopped working on it and never was able to get the vproc layer into the Linux upstream sources. which is a real shame
Oh, nice!
Maybe we should get that somewhere else. Like NetBSD or rolled into the Illumos stuff. :)
-brian
