On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system at tmesis.com> wrote:
It was a question of why go out of ones
way to recode in C.
No idea, but the numbers did not lie. The customers wanted C not BLISS and if you look at the number of customer projects that switched to it >>outside<< of DEC, it was not even close.
I learned BLISS/10 and BLISS/11 (and eventually BLISS/32) at CMU on the 10s before I learned C. When I first saw C (the white book had not yet been written) and I was not not assumed, particularly since the BLISS macro processor and code generator were so far advanced from dmr's compiler. But I quickly learned that I >>preferred<< C for a number of reasons. Originally, because it was self-hosting which BLISS was not for the PDP-11 and my edit/compile/test cycle was just so much easier.
That said for early VMS editions, when there was not C, all we had was BLISS, so I used it; but I also used to grumble as I had been enlightened from the dark side. I can definitely state that Stan and I had had Culter's VAX11-C when wrote the TCP stack we would have use it not BLISS - but it was all we had and his compiler was a good 3-4 years into the future.
Late on Larry and I used to talk about this at lunch. I think most of the system folks in the VMS group that really learned C, eventually came to the same spot as I did. It was just an easier echo system to use; but they key was that were not trying to use BLISS I/O, we used C calls once we switch over - which may have been what make you think that it's support was not as good.
That said, the compiler guys (Grove at al), doggedly stayed with BLISS to the end. Rich and I have also talked about the issue, including the "what if GEM has been in C not BLISS" - would Intel have been able to accept it as the base? An interesting thought [instead the DEC DNA is ground up and reinjected].
Clem
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
I'm an IP guy, hands down. DECnet I actually have very little experience
using aside from just being a consumer of current services.
What I would like to know is how I create a program that, in IP nuances,
"listens on a port" for a client to connect.
Specifically VMS in this case.
Paul explained a little bit how it functions, but he wasn't sure how
that was done on VMS either.
Anyone have any good pointers?
http://DECUSlib.com/Freeware/FreewareV40/SEND/
Sourced in Bliss so it's readable! SEND has code for both client and server
DECnet object creation and communication.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net>
On 14 Jan 2013, at 14:34, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM=
wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:=20
=20
What's the best alpha emulator to go with?
=20
AlphaVM-free from Emu/VM. Runs under Linux. Artem recently made updates
to it at my request to allow use of the Linux bridge and tunnel devices
to make a self-contained Xwindows accessible instance running on Linux.
It's now like having a portable Alpha! I've also successfully clustered
my 17" HP ENvy running AlphaVM-free. Had to use wired-ehternet. Bridge
and tunnel would not play nicely with the wireless ethernet
Now if only it didnt appear to constantly use 100% CPU. ;)
AlphaVM-free appears to use less than 20% on my Envy. Are you running the
latest build 1.2.2??? Try 1.1.11. That's what I've been running and it's
not consuming much CPU at all.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
On 14 Jan 2013, at 14:34, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system at TMESIS.COM> wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
What's the best alpha emulator to go with?
AlphaVM-free from Emu/VM. Runs under Linux. Artem recently made updates
to it at my request to allow use of the Linux bridge and tunnel devices
to make a self-contained Xwindows accessible instance running on Linux.
It's now like having a portable Alpha! I've also successfully clustered
my 17" HP ENvy running AlphaVM-free. Had to use wired-ehternet. Bridge
and tunnel would not play nicely with the wireless ethernet
Now if only it didnt appear to constantly use 100% CPU. ;)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
http://retrotron.sampsa.com/vmsmedialib/axp/vms83.iso.zip
8.3 install CD.
sampsa
On 14 Jan 2013, at 21:42, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
On 1/14/2013 2:34 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
What's the best alpha emulator to go with?
AlphaVM-free from Emu/VM. Runs under Linux. Artem recently made updates
to it at my request to allow use of the Linux bridge and tunnel devices
to make a self-contained Xwindows accessible instance running on Linux.
It's now like having a portable Alpha! I've also successfully clustered
my 17" HP ENvy running AlphaVM-free. Had to use wired-ehternet. Bridge
and tunnel would not play nicely with the wireless ethernet.
Ok, that was easy. Now I guess I need an ISO for VMS for alpha. :)
Thanks!
-brian
On 1/14/2013 2:34 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
What's the best alpha emulator to go with?
AlphaVM-free from Emu/VM. Runs under Linux. Artem recently made updates
to it at my request to allow use of the Linux bridge and tunnel devices
to make a self-contained Xwindows accessible instance running on Linux.
It's now like having a portable Alpha! I've also successfully clustered
my 17" HP ENvy running AlphaVM-free. Had to use wired-ehternet. Bridge
and tunnel would not play nicely with the wireless ethernet.
Ok, that was easy. Now I guess I need an ISO for VMS for alpha. :)
Thanks!
-brian
On 2013-01-14 20:33, Brian Hechinger wrote:
I'm an IP guy, hands down. DECnet I actually have very little experience
using aside from just being a consumer of current services.
What I would like to know is how I create a program that, in IP nuances,
"listens on a port" for a client to connect.
Specifically VMS in this case.
Paul explained a little bit how it functions, but he wasn't sure how
that was done on VMS either.
Anyone have any good pointers?
That should be in the DECnet/VMS manuals, I would think.
Afraid I can't help more, except for doing what you need to do, which is just start reading through the manual set.
I could help more if we were talking RSX... ;-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> writes:
What's the best alpha emulator to go with?
AlphaVM-free from Emu/VM. Runs under Linux. Artem recently made updates
to it at my request to allow use of the Linux bridge and tunnel devices
to make a self-contained Xwindows accessible instance running on Linux.
It's now like having a portable Alpha! I've also successfully clustered
my 17" HP ENvy running AlphaVM-free. Had to use wired-ehternet. Bridge
and tunnel would not play nicely with the wireless ethernet.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
I'm an IP guy, hands down. DECnet I actually have very little experience using aside from just being a consumer of current services.
What I would like to know is how I create a program that, in IP nuances, "listens on a port" for a client to connect.
Specifically VMS in this case.
Paul explained a little bit how it functions, but he wasn't sure how that was done on VMS either.
Anyone have any good pointers?
-brian
lee.gleason at comcast.net writes:
I wrote the original patches for Monitor that enabled those hidden
classes, and the Pagewapper article that detailed how to apply them
I haven't had an opportunity to check on newer versions of VMS, but it's
trivial to see if at least some support is still there for them.
On a VMS system, try
$ MON ETHERNET
or any of the other undocumented monitor classes. Then try a command
that definitely isn't going to be there
$ MON NOTTHERE
If the error messages are different - then at least some of the support
for the undocumented classes is still there.
Yes, Lee. The fun will come in trying to find where to change the mask
values in the Alpha and or Itanium code stream to not mask off ETHERNET
response. I can surely do this but I have been busy working on paying
projects, dealing with post-Sandy damages issues, suing Bank Of America
for account fraud, my daughter back in heroin rehab and, over the past
week, the flu -- a nasty strain of flu too. Perhaps, I'll look it over
in the rest of this afternoon since it's already been wasted primarily
on reading the ridiculous BOA settlement offer I just received. Laugh-
ter really is the best medicine! ;)
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG
Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
