On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:00 AM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
On Jan 15, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
If there's a PDP-11 PL/I compiler, join me in benchmarking using some PL/I examples I found on kednos.com ;)
Don't think I've ever seen one. I have F4, F77, Pascal, BASIC+2, COBOL, BCPL, Simula-2, Xlisp, TECO, Forth... Possibly some other things that I can't remember now...
Focal, Coral, Jovial (gag), Mumps. Then from the outside world: Algol-60, Algol-68,...
Right -- Cutler did the original PL/1 compiler for the VAX only. He bought the front end from Frieberhouse (aka LPI aka Liant - aka Ryan-Marfarland). Since it was written in PL/1, Dave had to do the development at MIT on Multics until it was good enough to could self host on the VMS. At the time, there was not market need for an PL/1 for the 11 family and if my memory serves me, I think the development for the 10's and 20s was going away. PL/1 was IBM's big systems language and they were trying to move their code base from FORTRAN and Cobol to it,
As for the PDP-11 C compiler generating poor code, that's because it did not really have too as the feeling was that the Ritchie compiler for UNIX was not that good either. Any C compiler of the time was viewed as just needed to work properly, self host and generate correct code.
It would be interesting to see how GCC does with whetstone.c.
paul
Hello!
What's wrong with Jovial? We've built a great air traffic control
system around it. Too bad the hardware is old enough to vote.
And none of it is certifiable for hobbyists.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 05:56:33PM +0100, Johnny Billquist wrote:
That it would... Anyone have GCC setup to generate something that can
be linked under RSX?
That's a tall order (adding .OBJ to binutils?) ... and lately I think GCC for
PDP-11s is pretty badly broken. I built the (then-)latest GCC to cross-compile
for PDP-11s a few weeks ago (working on porting Conticki) and it's pretty
broken -- stack frames get all tangled up on any function with >2 locals.
Turning off frame pointers or enabling optimization just makes it worse.
I did a temporary hack which got it generating seemingly correct (but *awful*)
code, but I didn't understand how it worked well enough to really fix it. It
seems like it's trying to keep track of modifications to SP but apparently on
*any* modification it assumes that it's lost track of the top of the stack
(even if the modification was push and then pop, i.e. no net change) and tries
to dig its way out with the frame pointer (which it gets off by a word).
But anyway ... I would think a GAS-to-MACRO translator wouldn't be too
difficult to write, since GCC doesn't depend too heavily on GASsisms.
John Wilson
D Bit
El 15/01/2013, a les 17:56, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> va escriure:
That it would... Anyone have GCC setup to generate something that can be linked under RSX?
Can't do that. But I'd bet it can generate code that can be linked under BSD2.11
(BTW the bug I found in the PDP-11 gas assembler is still there)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
El 16/01/2013, a les 2:33, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
Can I then simulate the simulation of the simulation for the simulated simulation or however many levels I just recursed? ;)
Well, you can add an arduino simulator to the stack. But the fabric of the Universe is beginning to shake... :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On 15 Jan 2013, at 20:39, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
El 16/01/2013, a les 2:37, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
I had no idea that network still existed I haven't heard any mention of it in ages. A quick wikipedia says it's still quite huge. Hmmmm.
If I'm not wrong its user base is mostly european.
Aaaaah. That would explain it.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
El 16/01/2013, a les 2:37, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
I had no idea that network still existed I haven't heard any mention of it in ages. A quick wikipedia says it's still quite huge. Hmmmm.
If I'm not wrong its user base is mostly european.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
El 15/01/2013, a les 2:12, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> va escriure:
Hercules can run OS/390 and z/OS. One of those supports SNA over IP. I'm not sure which. I think Dave might know a bit about this.
Not natively. You need one of those megabucky IBM products called "Enterprise Extender" to do that.
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On 15 Jan 2013, at 20:34, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
El 15/01/2013, a les 4:05, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure:
Good luck FINDING OS/390.
Unless, of course, you know the right people. *ahem*.
Actually it is not _so_ hard. It's highly ilegal though...
Just use that P2P network whose name begins with "em" and ends with "ule". The magic word to search for is ADCD (not to be confused with the aussie heavy metal band of a similar name).
I had no idea that network still existed I haven't heard any mention of it in ages. A quick wikipedia says it's still quite huge. Hmmmm.
Oh, that's about 10GB, so be ready to be patient :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
El 15/01/2013, a les 4:05, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> va escriure:
Good luck FINDING OS/390.
Unless, of course, you know the right people. *ahem*.
Actually it is not _so_ hard. It's highly ilegal though...
Just use that P2P network whose name begins with "em" and ends with "ule". The magic word to search for is ADCD (not to be confused with the aussie heavy metal band of a similar name).
Oh, that's about 10GB, so be ready to be patient :)
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
On 15 Jan 2013, at 20:29, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
If someone is interested, I have published the source code and the basic circuitry I have been using. I have also built a virtual console for the virtual pdp-11. Or if you like it more, a simulation of the simulated console for the simulated PDP-11.
Can I then simulate the simulation of the simulation for the simulated simulation or however many levels I just recursed? ;)
http://ancientbits.blogspot.com.es/2013/01/blinkenlights-not-so-difficult-a…
Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
jg at jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOV::JGUILLAUMES
PS: This mail _could_ end being duplicated... I apologize for it
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff!
http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.
