Flight was the "game" we played when we could get access to suitable hardware in DEC, i do remember playing it on a new vax9000 in multi user mode and it was hot! For those who have not come across the program, it was a multi user simulation with many planes and airfields which also ran over computers connected via decnet. There was also a toolkit to create your own planes and airfields.
http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/decwindows/
Found a copy above. Maybe another use for hecnet....
Mark
On 10 Oct 2013, at 23:21, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Oct 10, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 10/10/2013 04:51 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
Is there a collection of 'standard' games for VMS (VAX or AXP) =
downloadable from somewhere?
What I'm referring to is something like the 'bsdgames' package available =
on most Linux distros..
VMS, as well as the hardware it runs on, was a relatively expensive in its
day. VMS systems were NOT purchased for games play. There are games that
were produced and submitted to DECUS, but there's never been any definitive
packaging thereof.
Then again, CDC Cyber systems are *way* more expensive than any VAX, and nevertheless much of the innovation in games (especially role playing games and multi-user interactive games) was done there.
(Read up on "PLATO" for the details.)
Very true, but to be fair, PLATO was a teaching system, aimed (mostly) at
children.
Yes, PLATO was intended as a teaching system. Children? Not quite. It was aimed initially at college students, subsequently to both younger and older age groups, from elementary school to adult education. I think the majority of it was high school and beyond.
For example, the FAA used to do a lot of training on PLATO, until quite recently in fact.
paul
On 11/10/2013 08:40, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Mark, the drive didn't work? Or did it not work out in the target
system you had in mind? (Oddly enough I have one of those grouchy
systems here. (S)he runs my website and does some other things.)
I've been playing with the idea of tracking down a similar drive, but
in the 32GB size for it, and take the time to shoehorn in the OS and
then the website into it properly.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/10/2013 08:21, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Oct 2013, at 07:47, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way
of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old
Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
I'm fully aware of that, in fact I plan to try using a 4GB CF card on my
4000/60 at some stage to see what it does. You linked to a *SATA* to SCSI
adapter intended for use on hard drives?
I'm aware that SATA to CF/SD adapters are available, I used one for a while
with a CF card. That may be an option but like others have said the
reliability can be variable. Also some companies that offer embedded
micro-PC stuff also sell 8GB and 16GB SATA SSDs that might be an option too,
maybe? I am fairly sure I have a 16GB one spare somewhere.
On a Mac you can lay down partitions on the disk, the limit on a Mac IIRC is
on partition size on the the early SCSI machines, not on the drive size
(which I think is 2GB or 4GB on those due to limitations on the SCSI chip?).
I am not aware of any way to make DEC software do that.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I bought one of these a while back off eBay:
http://www.wickensonline.co.uk/images/20131011073307915.png
It is a SAMSUNG 16GB Flash SSD MCAQE16G8APR-0XA 1.8" SSD 3.3V ATA5 UDMA66
This was with the intention of using it as the replacement drive in a Sun
Ultra 5 workstation. It didn't work, but I guess I wouldn't rule it out in
other applications.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
It didn't work in the Sun Ultra 5 - I've not tried it in anything else. I do have a candidate system to try, so I'll let you know...
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
Hello!
Mark, the drive didn't work? Or did it not work out in the target
system you had in mind? (Oddly enough I have one of those grouchy
systems here. (S)he runs my website and does some other things.)
I've been playing with the idea of tracking down a similar drive, but
in the 32GB size for it, and take the time to shoehorn in the OS and
then the website into it properly.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:35 AM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/10/2013 08:21, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Oct 2013, at 07:47, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way
of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old
Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
I'm fully aware of that, in fact I plan to try using a 4GB CF card on my
4000/60 at some stage to see what it does. You linked to a *SATA* to SCSI
adapter intended for use on hard drives?
I'm aware that SATA to CF/SD adapters are available, I used one for a while
with a CF card. That may be an option but like others have said the
reliability can be variable. Also some companies that offer embedded
micro-PC stuff also sell 8GB and 16GB SATA SSDs that might be an option too,
maybe? I am fairly sure I have a 16GB one spare somewhere.
On a Mac you can lay down partitions on the disk, the limit on a Mac IIRC is
on partition size on the the early SCSI machines, not on the drive size
(which I think is 2GB or 4GB on those due to limitations on the SCSI chip?).
I am not aware of any way to make DEC software do that.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I bought one of these a while back off eBay:
http://www.wickensonline.co.uk/images/20131011073307915.png
It is a SAMSUNG 16GB Flash SSD MCAQE16G8APR-0XA 1.8" SSD 3.3V ATA5 UDMA66
This was with the intention of using it as the replacement drive in a Sun
Ultra 5 workstation. It didn't work, but I guess I wouldn't rule it out in
other applications.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
On 11/10/2013 08:21, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Oct 2013, at 07:47, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
I'm fully aware of that, in fact I plan to try using a 4GB CF card on my 4000/60 at some stage to see what it does. You linked to a *SATA* to SCSI adapter intended for use on hard drives?
I'm aware that SATA to CF/SD adapters are available, I used one for a while with a CF card. That may be an option but like others have said the reliability can be variable. Also some companies that offer embedded micro-PC stuff also sell 8GB and 16GB SATA SSDs that might be an option too, maybe? I am fairly sure I have a 16GB one spare somewhere.
On a Mac you can lay down partitions on the disk, the limit on a Mac IIRC is on partition size on the the early SCSI machines, not on the drive size (which I think is 2GB or 4GB on those due to limitations on the SCSI chip?). I am not aware of any way to make DEC software do that.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Digital Unix on Alpha seems to be more tolerant with hard drives than early OpenVMS releases.
Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
On 11/10/2013 08:21, Mark Benson wrote:
On 11 Oct 2013, at 07:47, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
I'm fully aware of that, in fact I plan to try using a 4GB CF card on my 4000/60 at some stage to see what it does. You linked to a *SATA* to SCSI adapter intended for use on hard drives?
I'm aware that SATA to CF/SD adapters are available, I used one for a while with a CF card. That may be an option but like others have said the reliability can be variable. Also some companies that offer embedded micro-PC stuff also sell 8GB and 16GB SATA SSDs that might be an option too, maybe? I am fairly sure I have a 16GB one spare somewhere.
On a Mac you can lay down partitions on the disk, the limit on a Mac IIRC is on partition size on the the early SCSI machines, not on the drive size (which I think is 2GB or 4GB on those due to limitations on the SCSI chip?). I am not aware of any way to make DEC software do that.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I bought one of these a while back off eBay:
http://www.wickensonline.co.uk/images/20131011073307915.png
It is a SAMSUNG 16GB Flash SSD MCAQE16G8APR-0XA 1.8" SSD 3.3V ATA5 UDMA66
This was with the intention of using it as the replacement drive in a Sun Ultra 5 workstation. It didn't work, but I guess I wouldn't rule it out in other applications.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
Well I'm busy porting Super Star Trek to Javascript which is somewhat
challenging. An update of the ((PDP) Fortran) version (that you can run on
RULLFS by logging as SST) has already been ported to C, but because everything
is event-driven in a browser, the next step is not that easy.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 02:21:16AM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Next challenge is to use JS to turn ReGIS into SVG and draw that :)
On 11 Oct 2013, at 07:47, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
I'm fully aware of that, in fact I plan to try using a 4GB CF card on my 4000/60 at some stage to see what it does. You linked to a *SATA* to SCSI adapter intended for use on hard drives?
I'm aware that SATA to CF/SD adapters are available, I used one for a while with a CF card. That may be an option but like others have said the reliability can be variable. Also some companies that offer embedded micro-PC stuff also sell 8GB and 16GB SATA SSDs that might be an option too, maybe? I am fairly sure I have a 16GB one spare somewhere.
On a Mac you can lay down partitions on the disk, the limit on a Mac IIRC is on partition size on the the early SCSI machines, not on the drive size (which I think is 2GB or 4GB on those due to limitations on the SCSI chip?). I am not aware of any way to make DEC software do that.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 11/10/2013 01:52, Daniel Soderstrom wrote:
http://www.artmix.com/SATA_SCSI_AZMN_II_1.html
This adapter is available on ebay for $149 and he says they work well in Vaxstations. He also has some which take CF flash cards.
Regards,
Daniel,
Thanks for the link Daniel. This is great news. I know that there have been various incarnations of adapters that have come and gone and been niche enough that there hasn't been reliable evidence of their functionality computers with older scsi implementations. Typically they are built to support equipment in the music industry.
Anything that provides us a way forward is definitely a good thing! I don't like noisy hard drives any more than the next person.
I will have to explore my theory of the 18GB limit on the VAXstation 4000/60 and /90 and I thought that was a hard rule, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It may be that I was using an earlier version of VMS where it definitely is the case that only certain models of drive are supported. I had to root around to find a supported drive for OpenVMS 6.1 - even generic Seagate 50 pin SCSI 2.1GB drives weren't recognised because they aren't RZ* tagged in the firmware.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.ukhttp://hecnet.euhttp://declegacy.org.ukhttp://retrochallenge.nethttps://twitter.com/#!/%40urbancamo
I think it is about as fast as possible, but it might be more memory efficient.
On my machine with firefox, the images are drawn about instantly.
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:41:06PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Sweet. The code is a tad slow right now, are you looking into that as youre cleaning it up?
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 10 Oct 2013, at 23:23, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Yes, if you include a <canvas> element and call a JS function with the id
of the canvas and the file to display. I only need to clean up the code!
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 09:40:16PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
Cool so it would be possible to include the JS on an arbitrary page and display SIXEL graphics using it?
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 10 Oct 2013, at 20:25, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Perhaps I made a few improvements!
The buttons load a real sixel file instead of a Javascript string.
http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/sg.html
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 10:17:28PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I meant in a browser, so you'd have a script that you can call to display SIXEL images
stored on a server, like <IMG> tags but using JS function calls instead :)
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 9 Oct 2013, at 22:15, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
I use SpiderMonkey for stand-alone Javascript - adding a ppm output
function would not be difficult!
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 10:12:36PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
A JS library that could display SIXEL images would be pretty awesome though :)
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 9 Oct 2013, at 22:11, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
With a little effort, I could write a tool to convert sixel to ppm...
Perhaps in C, so that it would work as a foreign command under VMS.
A plugin would be more difficult...
On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 07:32:48PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
That's awesome!
I wonder if we could turn this into a SIXEL decoding plugin for websites somehow..
So you could have a whole bunch of SIXEL images on a website, an INDEX.HTML that imports this javascript and then displays the images?
Because I haven't found any utilities to convert images FROM sixel to other formats, just one to convert netpbm -> sixel.
sampsa <sampsa at mac.com>
mobile +358 40 7208932
On 9 Oct 2013, at 19:28, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Sampsa,
At http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/sg.html
type
js> load('monkey.js')
js> display(s$)
It needs 'continue script' once or twice.
:)
Erik
On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 04:06:36PM +0200, Sampsa Laine wrote:
On 8 Oct 2013, at 16:03, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi all,
For those interested in Sixels, I ported the code (quick and dirty)
from ftp://ftp.cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/terminal/all_about_sixels.txt
to Javascript and combined it with Flot and a JQuery terminal:
http://rullf2.xs4all.nl/sg/sg.html
You then get a Javascript terminal, with a display function; some examples:
js> example$
js> display(example$)
js> display(Array(5).join('CA at ACGOG'))
js> display('HECNET')
and
js> display(digital$)
Considering the run time to display the latter image, photos should
perhaps not be too detailed...
Cool - any change you could add my logo (B&W picture of angry monkey from Family Guy)?
That would totally make my day.
There are plenty of CF or SD cards under 18gb. Also, there must be some way of only using part of a drive, as these cards are used extensively in old Macs which have a 170mb boot drive limit.
Regards,
Daniel,
Sent from my iPad
On 11 Oct 2013, at 2:13 pm, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 Oct 2013, at 01:52, Daniel Soderstrom <snaggs at mac.com> wrote:
http://www.artmix.com/SATA_SCSI_AZMN_II_1.html
This adapter is available on ebay for $149 and he says they work well in Vaxstations. He also has some which take CF flash cards.
Which is great, but again you run in to the snag that I've never seen a SATA disk smaller than 40GB and the upper size limit on a VAXstation is typically 18GB. Somewhat problematic.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
