Weirdly enough, I have no problem with running the bridge and SIMH on the same machine - caveat: I am running on OS X.
At the moment, I have the following:
- Gorilla (OS X 10.4.something) running the bridge on interface 0
- GORVAX (SIMH, OpenVMS 7.3, MULTINET) running on interface 0, acting as a router between the bridge and a MULTINET tunnel to the outside
- CHIMPY (running VMS 8.3, TCP/IP services), acting as an end node on the bridged network
So on the main host, there's only one interface and it all works (all = DECNET, I can't get IP traffic from Gorilla to GORVAX).
Sampsa
On 2 Mar 2009, at 09:50, Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote:
The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same
machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node
on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own
outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you.
So, if you try to run in one machine,
with hardware that can't see its own packets,
then you need 3 interfaces,
1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge
2: DECnet side of bridge
3: DECnet speaking software
or
a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and
a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet.
Or have I still misunderstood?
Aloha, Angela
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote:
The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same
machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node
on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own
outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you.
So, if you try to run in one machine,
with hardware that can't see its own packets,
then you need 3 interfaces,
1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge
2: DECnet side of bridge
3: DECnet speaking software
or
a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and
a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet.
Or have I still misunderstood?
You're making things over-complex.
I can't ever imagine a scenario in which you need more than two interfaces.
In your first example above, 1 and 2 can be on the same interface with
no problems.
The only time you even need more than one interface is if the machine
running the bridge program is itself also a DECnet node, in which case
the machines own DECnet traffic can't be on the same interface as the
bridge is capturing DECnet traffic. All other stuff can be shared on any
of the interfaces.
In short. bridge can coexist with any TCP/IP traffic. DECnet can coexist
with any TCP/IP traffic. bridge and DECnet can't coexist.
And in all of these sentences I'm talking about that specific machines
protocols/applications running. It is not relevant if another machine
talks DECnet when we're talking about the bridge program. The bridge
program is not a DECnet program, and should not be confused with them. The
bridge is just a cable extension. A repeater. A hub.
Johnny
On Sunday, 2009-03-01 21:50:24 Johnny Billquist wrote:
The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same
machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node
on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own
outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you.
So, if you try to run in one machine,
with hardware that can't see its own packets,
then you need 3 interfaces,
1: To talk TCP/IP / UDP for main interface plus UDP side of bridge
2: DECnet side of bridge
3: DECnet speaking software
or
a machine with only one interface running the bridge program, and
a machine with two interfaces, one for TCP/IP/UDP and one DECnet.
Or have I still misunderstood?
Aloha, Angela
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
Done.
Sampsa
On 2 Mar 2009, at 01:17, Steve Davidson wrote:
Sampsa,
Could you update the DECnet database using MIM:: please. Area 19
appears to be unknown to your system.
Thanks.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 19:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] What use are *you* making of HECnet?
Ok, so I just realised CHIMPY is in fact acting as a gateway into and
out of HECnet already :)
To send mail in:
Address the message to "<HECNET NODE>::
<USER>"@chimpymail.sampsa.com
To send mail out
Address the message to CHIMPY::SMTP%"<Internet email address>"
Sampsa
On 1 Mar 2009, at 23:53, Peter Lothberg wrote:
If I remember right, it was/is Robert Armstrong who had that up and
running.
LEGATO used to relay email between HECnet (using MAIL11) and the
Internet/SMTP, but I quit doing that last fall when I switched
registrars.
There's no reason I couldn't - I just never bothered to set up the
necessary
domain name and mail routing again.
It was pretty much never used, even by me - after all, everyone
with a
HECnet connection already has an Internet connection.
Bob
We could talk "SMTP" over DECnet.....
-P
Angela Kahealani wrote:
I'm connecting via a NetBSD 4.0 system with two (2) NIC's. One NIC
is connected to the Internet router, the other is managed entirely by
Johnny's bridge program.
Does the bridge program need two NIC's?
one for DECnet (with the necessarily forced MAC)
2nd for UDP? can the UDP port share with TCP/IP functionality?
i.e., to get from
"Internet" <--> Bridge <--> DECnet <--> DECnet-consuming-application
how many NICs do I need? Since the DECnet-consuming-application
must have a DECnet address, I know it needs it's own NIC on which
it can own a corresponding MAC in the DECnet address range, but
does the DECnet side of the Bridge program need it's own DECnet
address also?
Is the short answer to go read some documentation on the bridge program?
No. The short answer is "no". :-)
One NIC is enough. The bridge program isn't visible to DECnet. Think of it as a cord extension. It grabs all the "correct" ethernet packets on an interface, and sends them out as UDP packets to the IP stack. What the IP stack choose to use for interface is none of it's concern. The same for the other direction. UDP packet is received, and sent out on a specified ethernet interface.
The one limitation is that it is usually problematic to have the same machine that is running the bridge also participate as a DECnet node on the same interface. Because then you need to see all your own outgoing packets. Not all hardware will do that for you.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
At 10:44 PM -0500 3/1/09, Steve Davidson wrote:
Something that Zane mentioned suggested this question. How are you
connecting to HECnet?
The following is how I was connecting until everything went into storage last September.
Pentium III running OpenBSD with two NIC's. This is my firewall, and it runs the bridge. I'd like to upgrade this soon to a low-power Mini-ITX system as the Pentium III system was getting flaky when I had to shut it down last September.
DEC VAXstation 4000 (I'm drawing a blank as to if it's a 60 or 90 since it's in storage, was a VLC till it developed PS issues) running VAX/VMS 5.5-2. This is PDXVAX my DECnet Area router, and it also runs Multinet for a Multinet bridge to LEGATO.
My main VMS system is MONK which is a Compaq XP1000/667 running OpenVMS 8.3 with DECnet phase IV (was originally running Phase V).
Yes, the Multinet link provides a second connection into HECnet, Christine and I have been the sites routing between the two types of connections. There were also one or two people using Cisco router links as well, but I don't know if anyone still has those links up.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
I'm connecting via a NetBSD 4.0 system with two (2) NIC's. One NIC
is connected to the Internet router, the other is managed entirely by
Johnny's bridge program.
Does the bridge program need two NIC's?
one for DECnet (with the necessarily forced MAC)
2nd for UDP? can the UDP port share with TCP/IP functionality?
i.e., to get from
"Internet" <--> Bridge <--> DECnet <--> DECnet-consuming-application
how many NICs do I need? Since the DECnet-consuming-application
must have a DECnet address, I know it needs it's own NIC on which
it can own a corresponding MAC in the DECnet address range, but
does the DECnet side of the Bridge program need it's own DECnet
address also?
Is the short answer to go read some documentation on the bridge program?
Aloha, Angela Kahealani
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
Something that Zane mentioned suggested this question. How are you
connecting to HECnet?
I'm connecting via a NetBSD 4.0 system with two (2) NIC's. One NIC is
connected to the Internet router, the other is managed entirely by
Johnny's bridge program. It only sees DECnet traffic through the
bridge, no IP at all. It works quite well for what it is. I should
mention that the NetBSD system is a Pentium 166 with 32MB of memory.
What others see is a VAXstation 4000 Model 60 (AGENA::) running VMS 7.3.
It works for me!
-Steve
At 5:44 PM -0600 3/1/09, Patrick J. Jankowiak wrote:
I am mainly reading the mail list.. It';s interesting but at this time I have no ability to participate. There is a VMS box, but no way to connect it to HECNET. So keep up the good work.
thanks,
Patrick Jankowiak
What is your TCP stack? If you're using Multinet you can use it to connect.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Sampsa,
Could you update the DECnet database using MIM:: please. Area 19
appears to be unknown to your system.
Thanks.
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 19:09
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] What use are *you* making of HECnet?
Ok, so I just realised CHIMPY is in fact acting as a gateway into and
out of HECnet already :)
To send mail in:
Address the message to "<HECNET NODE>::
<USER>"@chimpymail.sampsa.com
To send mail out
Address the message to CHIMPY::SMTP%"<Internet email address>"
Sampsa
On 1 Mar 2009, at 23:53, Peter Lothberg wrote:
If I remember right, it was/is Robert Armstrong who had that up and
running.
LEGATO used to relay email between HECnet (using MAIL11) and the
Internet/SMTP, but I quit doing that last fall when I switched
registrars.
There's no reason I couldn't - I just never bothered to set up the
necessary
domain name and mail routing again.
It was pretty much never used, even by me - after all, everyone
with a
HECnet connection already has an Internet connection.
Bob
We could talk "SMTP" over DECnet.....
-P
