On 2012-06-05 04:44, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-05 03:24, Steve Davidson wrote:
Paul,
I think that depends on whether or not the idle loop pattern (for the
console light display) is being used. The lights pattern most certainly
makes use of the WAIT instruction. The SJ monitor is a completely
different beast than FB and friends - no question about it!
Well, there are more ways to spin a cat... Or spin the lights in this
case. WAIT is one way to show something on the front panel. Loading the
display register is another.
RT-11 is in fact using the Switch Register at 177570 to display things
on the front panel.
Look at RMONFB.MAC, around line 4800, to see the code.
(Every time I read the RT-11 sources, I feel a little dirty... No
offense meant for the RT-11 fans around here or anywhere.)
It's all conditionalized on LIGH$T, and there is not even the option if
you are running the SJ monitor...
Aw, heck. I might as well post the code, since isn't that long...
====
3$:
.IF NE LIGH$T
.ROM DEC LITECT,VALUE=1
BNE 8$
ADD #512.,LITECT
4$: ROL 7$
BNE 5$
COM 7$
5$: BCC 6$
ADD #100,4$
BIC #200,4$
6$: BIT #LIGHT$,CONFG2
BEQ 8$
MOV (PC)+,@(PC)+
7$: .WORD 0,SR
.ENDC
8$:
..NULJ::
====
(And yes, SR is defined as 177570)
(And maybe you understand why I feel dirty when reading RT-11 after this fine example of code... It's cut-and-pasted right from the source, it really looks just like this.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 03:24, Steve Davidson wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 20:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Speaking of IDLE
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it
working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction
sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it
depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully
the idle loop
of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that
actually depends
on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do,
for instance.
(I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a
few years
ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11
software might
be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might
differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I
haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B
version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not
sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops,
no central idle of any kind that I can see.
paul
Paul,
I think that depends on whether or not the idle loop pattern (for the
console light display) is being used. The lights pattern most certainly
makes use of the WAIT instruction. The SJ monitor is a completely
different beast than FB and friends - no question about it!
Well, there are more ways to spin a cat... Or spin the lights in this case. WAIT is one way to show something on the front panel. Loading the display register is another.
RT-11 is in fact using the Switch Register at 177570 to display things on the front panel.
Look at RMONFB.MAC, around line 4800, to see the code.
(Every time I read the RT-11 sources, I feel a little dirty... No offense meant for the RT-11 fans around here or anywhere.)
It's all conditionalized on LIGH$T, and there is not even the option if you are running the SJ monitor...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 03:50, Peter Lothberg wrote:
For people who don't need LAT and have a Cisco box, this is way better
than the bridge program.
(If you really want LAT with other parts of HECnet, then there is no
alternative to the bridge...)
You can bridge LAT with the cisco box... -:) ((It might even HELP you
with LAT over WAN....)) (And it can act as a LAT termianl server)
Nice. I did not know that. That's even better. Will it just bridge the protocols you ask for, or will it do them all? Hmm, I assume it's using GRE for this?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2012-06-05 02:57, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully the idle loop of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that actually depends on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do, for instance. (I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a few years ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11 software might be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops, no central idle of any kind that I can see.
Right. I think my discussion with whomever it was actually centered around RT-11 and Unix. I had to go digging in the Unix code (since I have been playing quite a lot with 2.11BSD), and the information is incorrect on Unix. I searched all the way back to 7th edition (if I remember right), and Unix on the PDP-11 is using WAIT, and always have been. If anyone can find any other pointers to any Unix not using WAIT, I'm always interested in hearing. Since I normally only play with 2.11BSD with all kind of patches, I might definitely have missed something in past history.
But thanks on the confirmation for RT-11. I seemed to remember having checked that one and not found any WAIT, but I was way too unsure to claim anything.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
For people who don't need LAT and have a Cisco box, this is way better
than the bridge program.
(If you really want LAT with other parts of HECnet, then there is no
alternative to the bridge...)
You can bridge LAT with the cisco box... -:) ((It might even HELP you
with LAT over WAN....)) (And it can act as a LAT termianl server)
-P
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Paul_Koning at Dell.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 20:58
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Speaking of IDLE
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it
working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction
sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it
depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully
the idle loop
of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that
actually depends
on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do,
for instance.
(I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a
few years
ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11
software might
be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might
differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I
haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B
version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not
sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops,
no central idle of any kind that I can see.
paul
Paul,
I think that depends on whether or not the idle loop pattern (for the
console light display) is being used. The lights pattern most certainly
makes use of the WAIT instruction. The SJ monitor is a completely
different beast than FB and friends - no question about it!
-Steve
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 06/04/2012 12:13 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
SIMH 3.9 somehow kernel paniced my solaris server!
Wow.
-brian
ps: it's older solaris, but stil!
Holy cow! I have NEVER seen that happen. (which is why I run it!)
How the heck did you do that?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Hello!
I agree. I have my site (website http://www.gregg.levine.name )
running there because its a lot more sturdy then a peripatetic Linux
system who has other issues.
However I take it back, you're right Brian. The release you're running
is old by design, the literal information that uname told me confirmed
that the kernel (as such) is definitely part of the Sol11 release
cycle, but from that time period.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Jun 4, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2012-06-04 13:52, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Anyone know how it works? I'd really like to get it working on Solaris.
Simple. For a VAX, simh tries to detect the instruction sequence that the OS do in the idle loop. That's why it depends on which OS you are running on the emulated machine.
For a PDP-11 it is (supposedly) simpler, since hopefully the idle loop of the OS uses the PDP-11 WAIT instruction, but that actually depends on which OS we're talking about. Not sure that RT-11 do, for instance. (I have some vague memory of discussing this with someone a few years ago, and coming to the realization that not all PDP-11 software might be using the WAIT.)
For other hardware and OS combinations, the answers might differ even more.
The doc says that RT and Unix do it differently (no WAIT). I haven't seen the Unix code but I did see the one for RT (F/B version), and indeed, no WAIT instruction there. I'm not sure why not. RT11 S/J seems to just be full of spin loops, no central idle of any kind that I can see.
paul
On 06/04/2012 12:13 PM, Brian Hechinger wrote:
SIMH 3.9 somehow kernel paniced my solaris server!
Wow.
-brian
ps: it's older solaris, but stil!
Holy cow! I have NEVER seen that happen. (which is why I run it!)
How the heck did you do that?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On 06/04/2012 06:17 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
FYI - Update now have a Cisco box, which will be setup within a few days
to be able to route DECnet over IP, so that will become another options
to hook into HECnet at the Update site.
For people who don't need LAT and have a Cisco box, this is way better
than the bridge program.
(If you really want LAT with other parts of HECnet, then there is no
alternative to the bridge...)
One can also bridge LAT via a Cisco. And Cisco IOS also has a native
LAT-over-IP encapsulation implementation for doing exactly this. I hope
to work on that soon. I've had to drop out of sight for a bit lately in
order to get some work done (and working on getting some ham antennas up
on the roof!) but I'll be back in HECnet-hack-land soon.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
