HECnet February 2014

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21 participants
91 discussions

RSTS/E tapes, was Re: [HECnet] two dumb RSX questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/16/2014 09:15 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: What're the requirements for RSTS/E 10.1? I think I managed to fit it in 40M very carefully in simh once... It will not fit on a single RL02, unfortunately. ;) It fits nicely on am RM02/RM03 (~70MB), with languages etc. I don't know what the strict requirements are for the OS itself, offhand. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 1 month

RSTS/E tapes, was Re: [HECnet] two dumb RSX questions

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014, Dave McGuire wrote: On 02/16/2014 09:15 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: What're the requirements for RSTS/E 10.1? I think I managed to fit it in 40M very carefully in simh once... It will not fit on a single RL02, unfortunately. ;) I should get that UDA50, order a replacement drive, pickup the PSU and run it on the 11/44, then. ;) I'll find another solution for the 11/23+. The {11/03,11/23} can be RT-11 or RSX-11M+. It fits nicely on am RM02/RM03 (~70MB), with languages etc. I don't know what the strict requirements are for the OS itself, offhand. Ahh. -Dave -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 1 month

OS X (lack of) tape support, was Re: [HECnet] tape image manipulations...

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: Apple suddenly and arbitrarily removed the tape drivers from OS X years ago. That was one reason why I dumped OS X. They unilaterally decided that I didn't need tape support, and I don't like being told how to conduct my business. I agree and understand.

12 years, 1 month

RSTS/E tapes, was Re: [HECnet] two dumb RSX questions

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/17/2014 03:04 AM, Peter Lothberg wrote: And while on this subject, I wanna buikd a RSTS/E system to, tapes of stuff, anyone? Here you go, Peter: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/rsts/ Note, the DECnet/e tape image is a working one, not the corrupt one that's floating around. Let me know if I can assist. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 1 month

RSTS/E tapes, was Re: [HECnet] two dumb RSX questions

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014, Dave McGuire wrote: On 02/17/2014 03:04 AM, Peter Lothberg wrote: And while on this subject, I wanna buikd a RSTS/E system to, tapes of stuff, anyone? Here you go, Peter: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/rsts/ Note, the DECnet/e tape image is a working one, not the corrupt one that's floating around. Let me know if I can assist. -Dave What're the requirements for RSTS/E 10.1? I think I managed to fit it in 40M very carefully in simh once... -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

12 years, 1 month

two dumb RSX questions

by roll＠Stupi.SE

Are you giving guest access and/or offering accounts? Sure.. I'll talk to my sys$admin:..... (it needs a guest account) And do you have Fortran? :) It's a basic RSX with DECnet, I'll install anything that anyone can offer for layared products.. And while on this subject, I wanna buikd a RSTS/E system to, tapes of stuff, anyone? -P

12 years, 1 month

OS X (lack of) tape support, was Re: [HECnet] tape image manipulations...

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 02/16/2014 08:33 AM, Clem Cole wrote: As for the OSX lack of mtio.h - i've just pulled it from FreeBSD and never had an issue - obviously there is not driver. I 100% agree -- it does seems nuts and I've b*tched at my friends at Apple about it a few times. Another thing I have on my todo list is try to slide the drivers back into an hackintosh i had running on a vm in a system that has an old DEC/Adaptec PCI card in it that I still use for SCSI tapes. That said, when I have needed the tape I've just used the BSD driver on the base system. Apple suddenly and arbitrarily removed the tape drivers from OS X years ago. That was one reason why I dumped OS X. They unilaterally decided that I didn't need tape support, and I don't like being told how to conduct my business. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 1 month

two dumb RSX questions

by phiber＠phiber.com

Nice! Real hardware! One day I'll get my 11/53 back up. Are you giving guest access and/or offering accounts? And do you have Fortran? :) Regards, Mark On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Peter Lothberg <roll at stupi.se> wrote: With (a lot) of help from Johnny I have a RSX11 box on HECnet. It's a 11/53, 1.5M memory, SCSI disk and tape on CMD controller and delqua. (It's in Sunnyvale). $set host krylbo [Attempting a connection, connect OK, ] [Remote host is a RSX-11M+ system] [TYPE ^\,<RET> to return to node SOL] Connected to "KRYLBO" log 10,2 Password: RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87 [1,54] System KRYLBO 16-FEB-14 16:45 Logged on Terminal RT0: as PLT1 Good Afternoon ***************************************************************** * * * Welcome to RSX-11M-PLUS * * * * Version 4.6 Base level 87 * * This is file LB:[1,2]LOGIN.TXT * * * ***************************************************************** Last interactive login on Friday, February 14, 2014 07:40:49 (RT0:) NCP>show exec char Node characteristics as of 16-FEB-14 16:50:52 Executor node = 59.55 (KRYLBO) Identification = RSXBURK, Management version = 4.2.0 Host = 59.55 (KRYLBO), Loop count = 1 Loop length = 40, Loop with = Mixed Incoming timer = 15, Outgoing timer = 30 NSP version = 4.0.0 Maximum links = 10, Delay factor = 32 Delay weight = 2 Inactivity timer = 30, Retransmit factor = 5 Routing version = 2.0.0, Type = Endnode IV Maximum circuits = 1 Incoming proxy = Disabled Outgoing proxy = Disabled Segment buffer size = 576 NCP>show kno cir Known circuits summary as of 16-FEB-14 16:51:06 Circuit = QNA-0 State = On Adjacent node = 59.57 (E825GW) NCP> -P Dave McGuire skrev 2013-12-24 05:14: On 12/23/2013 10:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Ahh, got it. I have a bru64k.tap file that I think came from the same place. If you have a brusys.tap file, would you please send me a copy? I can't seem to find that anywhere. Did you try booting the BRU64K tape? Sounds like that should be a BRUSYS system as well. Not sure what the correct name is. I know it by BRUSYS, but there might be some slight difference between the 11M and M+ standalone BRU, or it might just be different versions of the same. BRU64K also rings some bell, so I think I've seem that name as well. I booted it. It seems BRU64K does not support MU: devices. The "regular" BRUSYS does. I don't know what other differences there may be. BRU64K "might" be able to fit into a system with merely 64 k RAM... (And might be older than your other BRU immage ...) Ok. I was mainly concerned about the stuff fitting...I'm assuming 4.2/4.3 are larger than 4.1. 4.1 was the last version I ran. I've found the relevant sections of the documentation and am reading it now. Excellent. Progress! I've restored the DL installation set under simh, moved the RL02 disk images over to a (real) VAX, written them to RL02 packs, and am running a sysgen on a (real) PDP-11/24. It's midway through the assembly of the executive. I took a crappy phone pic: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1124-rsx-sysgen-20131223.jpg (yes, that bottom RL02 really is dirty...I'll clean it soon) I wish I still had that tape, but sadly it was lost many years ago. Distribution tape for 4.1? I thought you had 4.3 anyway, so what would you use 4.1 for? I wouldn't...but it was a pristine, original DEC RSX-11M distribution tape, and those don't exactly grow on trees. Thank you Johnny. I'm sure I will have other questions as I become reacquainted with RSX. No problems. Feel free to ask anything. Thank you! First question: I'd like to try to get DECnet running on this system, if possible, to get it on HECnet. I've never run DECnet under RSX before. I could put a DEUNA in the machine, but I am running short of slots. I have a DELUA, but I don't recall sysgen asking about DELUAs. Are they compatible at the driver level? Meaning, if I re-do my sysgen to include a DEUNA driver, will that work with a DELUA? -Dave As I remember the SYSGEN/NETGEN task, the controller intended for DECnet should NOT be taken into SYSGEN at all, but later, at the totally separate task of performing NETGEN once Your OS. is up and running, it should be included there. So, no need to redo your SYSGEN when playing with different Ethernet cards. BTW: DELUA replaced DEUNA... /Gvran -SM6NNC

12 years, 1 month

two dumb RSX questions

by roll＠Stupi.SE

With (a lot) of help from Johnny I have a RSX11 box on HECnet. It's a 11/53, 1.5M memory, SCSI disk and tape on CMD controller and delqua. (It's in Sunnyvale). $set host krylbo [Attempting a connection, connect OK, ] [Remote host is a RSX-11M+ system] [TYPE ^\,<RET> to return to node SOL] Connected to "KRYLBO" log 10,2 Password: RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87 [1,54] System KRYLBO 16-FEB-14 16:45 Logged on Terminal RT0: as PLT1 Good Afternoon ***************************************************************** * * * Welcome to RSX-11M-PLUS * * * * Version 4.6 Base level 87 * * This is file LB:[1,2]LOGIN.TXT * * * ***************************************************************** Last interactive login on Friday, February 14, 2014 07:40:49 (RT0:) NCP>show exec char Node characteristics as of 16-FEB-14 16:50:52 Executor node = 59.55 (KRYLBO) Identification = RSXBURK, Management version = 4.2.0 Host = 59.55 (KRYLBO), Loop count = 1 Loop length = 40, Loop with = Mixed Incoming timer = 15, Outgoing timer = 30 NSP version = 4.0.0 Maximum links = 10, Delay factor = 32 Delay weight = 2 Inactivity timer = 30, Retransmit factor = 5 Routing version = 2.0.0, Type = Endnode IV Maximum circuits = 1 Incoming proxy = Disabled Outgoing proxy = Disabled Segment buffer size = 576 NCP>show kno cir Known circuits summary as of 16-FEB-14 16:51:06 Circuit = QNA-0 State = On Adjacent node = 59.57 (E825GW) NCP> -P Dave McGuire skrev 2013-12-24 05:14: On 12/23/2013 10:46 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Ahh, got it. I have a bru64k.tap file that I think came from the same place. If you have a brusys.tap file, would you please send me a copy? I can't seem to find that anywhere. Did you try booting the BRU64K tape? Sounds like that should be a BRUSYS system as well. Not sure what the correct name is. I know it by BRUSYS, but there might be some slight difference between the 11M and M+ standalone BRU, or it might just be different versions of the same. BRU64K also rings some bell, so I think I've seem that name as well. I booted it. It seems BRU64K does not support MU: devices. The "regular" BRUSYS does. I don't know what other differences there may be. BRU64K "might" be able to fit into a system with merely 64 k RAM... (And might be older than your other BRU immage ...) Ok. I was mainly concerned about the stuff fitting...I'm assuming 4.2/4.3 are larger than 4.1. 4.1 was the last version I ran. I've found the relevant sections of the documentation and am reading it now. Excellent. Progress! I've restored the DL installation set under simh, moved the RL02 disk images over to a (real) VAX, written them to RL02 packs, and am running a sysgen on a (real) PDP-11/24. It's midway through the assembly of the executive. I took a crappy phone pic: http://www.neurotica.com/misc/pdp1124-rsx-sysgen-20131223.jpg (yes, that bottom RL02 really is dirty...I'll clean it soon) I wish I still had that tape, but sadly it was lost many years ago. Distribution tape for 4.1? I thought you had 4.3 anyway, so what would you use 4.1 for? I wouldn't...but it was a pristine, original DEC RSX-11M distribution tape, and those don't exactly grow on trees. Thank you Johnny. I'm sure I will have other questions as I become reacquainted with RSX. No problems. Feel free to ask anything. Thank you! First question: I'd like to try to get DECnet running on this system, if possible, to get it on HECnet. I've never run DECnet under RSX before. I could put a DEUNA in the machine, but I am running short of slots. I have a DELUA, but I don't recall sysgen asking about DELUAs. Are they compatible at the driver level? Meaning, if I re-do my sysgen to include a DEUNA driver, will that work with a DELUA? -Dave As I remember the SYSGEN/NETGEN task, the controller intended for DECnet should NOT be taken into SYSGEN at all, but later, at the totally separate task of performing NETGEN once Your OS. is up and running, it should be included there. So, no need to redo your SYSGEN when playing with different Ethernet cards. BTW: DELUA replaced DEUNA... /Gvran -SM6NNC

12 years, 1 month

tape image manipulations...

by clemc＠ccc.com

Many thanks. I think we all have created a library of tape tools over the years. I'll put on my todo this to get my set together. As for the OSX lack of mtio.h - i've just pulled it from FreeBSD and never had an issue - obviously there is not driver. I 100% agree -- it does seems nuts and I've b*tched at my friends at Apple about it a few times. Another thing I have on my todo list is try to slide the drivers back into an hackintosh i had running on a vm in a system that has an old DEC/Adaptec PCI card in it that I still use for SCSI tapes. That said, when I have needed the tape I've just used the BSD driver on the base system. Clem On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 5:51 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: Since from time to time, I get questions about the different tape image formats that exists, as well as how to read/write tapes from Unix, I decided to publish a set of small programs I initially write many, many years ago. In the process of cleaning things up to make them more presentable, I also made them more flexible. The odd person might have seen these programs in earlier reincarnations from me at some point in time. Anyway, I have a set of four programs, that a few people might find useful, if they play on Unix systems. tpr - reads from a physical tape and creates an image on disk tpw - reads an image from disk and writes it to a physical tape tpc - copy/convert a disk image tpx - examine/verify a disk image These programs will handle both .tpc images (2 byte record length headers) and .tap images (4 byte record length headers and footers). The programs tries to automatically identify the format of the file, but you can also force a format. They are still extremely simple and stupid programs, and have very little error handling, or help. Feel free to ask if you have questions. Suggestions, as well as patches are also welcome. The files can be found under ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/tptools.tar (And yes, I know they will not compile under OSX - Apple in their infinite wisdom have dropped support for tapes, and thus mtio.h no longer is around, and their man-pages also have big holes around tapes, where plenty of references from other man-pages exists... tpc and tpx is easy to fix for OSX though, but you're out of luck as far as tpr and tpw goes...) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

12 years, 1 month

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HECnet February 2014