HECnet May 2013

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

38 participants
680 discussions

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/17/2013 04:32 AM, Oleg Safiullin wrote: I bet you wouldn't have trouble cooling a real PDP-11 in a Russian winter. ;) Some PDP-11's are smaller and cooler than PC's :) http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/pics/1183/1183-d.jpg That's a great "hacking around" setup! Very nice! http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/pics/dell.jpg OH MY GOD!! I'm going to have nightmares about those. Are there collectors there that collect the Soviet clones? I have an UKNC, the soviet computer, small 11/03 clone with second CPU instead of device controllers and with graphics :) http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/pics/uknc/NewKMDYK.jpg Those are such neat machines! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by b4＠gewt.net

On Fri, 17 May 2013, Bob Armstrong wrote: John Wilson wrote: this is a ridiculous security risk so that's why MOP had a magic number Yep, even the DMR has a boot "password", which is just an 8 bit value set by dip switches on the board, that has to match up with the MOP message. They DMA a small program into memory Ah, I was wondering about that, because there aren't any separate boot ROMs on the DEUNA. I bet the "small program" is just part of the T11 code. And I'm assuming that this scheme didn't work on any UNIBUS VAXes - only PDPs. I'd assume so as well. On a semi-related note, wasn't it not possible to netboot a UNIBUS VAX with a DEUNA? I seem to recall that from the manual. It required an intermediate bootloader or something, right? Bob -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by b4＠gewt.net

On Fri, 17 May 2013, G. wrote: On Fri, 17 May 2013 06:49:40 -0700, you wrote: DECnet (NCP) has a TRIGGER command that sends a special MOP message to a remote machine, and that's supposed to force the machine to do a hard reset and the reboot, presumably via DECnet. It uses MOP, not DECnet. Although MOP is described among other DECnet standards and managed with NCP, it does not use DECnet protocols to do its thing. IIRC it does not even use NETDRIVER & Co. but its own NDDRIVER. :) The problem is that it doesn't seem like there are many PDP-11 or VAX communications interfaces that actually implement this. The DMR and DMC appear to, but as far as I can find those are the only ones. In particular there don't appear to be any QBUS interfaces that can do it. Have I missed any? Has anybody ever done this? What interface did you use? Years ago I made some experiments with CONNECT (and TRIGGER) and a DEC 3000 Alpha workstation. It worked (somewhat), but only if the host was waiting at the >>> prompt. If that was the case, it was possibile to connect to the SRM, type commands and receive responses. I do not remember if TRIGGER would start the boot process or if it did not work. I had the overall feeling that the DEC 3000 firmware code managing those functions was not very well tested and debugged as it locked the whole machine quite often... I wonder if I could do this on my AlphaServer ES40... I should probably read the manual. There is that out-of-band management interface so I doubt CONNECT and TRIGGER would be implemented. HTH, :) G. -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Johnny Billquist wrote: "A Trigger Instruction (remote console request to boot) can be executed if the local host system contains the appropriate BOOT ROM for loading the boot code from the DELQA module." Sounds like they're saying that the DELQA just does a BINIT and then it's up to the boot ROM to figure out what happens after that. Bob

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On May 17, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote: Paul_Koning at Dell.com the one that requires hardware help -- is Boot.1 It occurs to me that there's a better way - several versions of the DLV11 (e.g. -E) could assert BHALT when a break was detected. You could do that on the async DECnet DDCMP line. Unfortunately I think that only gets you to console ODT and not an actual reboot. Now, if you took a soldering iron to the DLV11-E and hacked it ever so slightly so that break asserted BINIT instead, I think it'd actually work. Of course you'd need the host side to send a break - I don't imagine DECnet could do that. No, that's not a DECnet or MOP feature. It's not hard to do, of course, given support in the sending system's UART. paul

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Paul_Koning at Dell.com the one that requires hardware help -- is Boot.1 It occurs to me that there's a better way - several versions of the DLV11 (e.g. -E) could assert BHALT when a break was detected. You could do that on the async DECnet DDCMP line. Unfortunately I think that only gets you to console ODT and not an actual reboot. Now, if you took a soldering iron to the DLV11-E and hacked it ever so slightly so that break asserted BINIT instead, I think it'd actually work. Of course you'd need the host side to send a break - I don't imagine DECnet could do that. Bob

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-17 18:51, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-17 18:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: It looks like the DELQA is the only possible option for remote triggering a QBUS 11, and even that one is uncertain. Skimming through the DELQA manual, it seems it should support MOP Remote console BOOT requests. To expand a little. The manual says: "A Trigger Instruction (remote console request to boot) can be executed if the local host system contains the appropriate BOOT ROM for loading the boot code from the DELQA module." Johnny

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-17 18:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: It looks like the DELQA is the only possible option for remote triggering a QBUS 11, and even that one is uncertain. Skimming through the DELQA manual, it seems it should support MOP Remote console BOOT requests. Johnny

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On May 17, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote: Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Boot.1 == ... Boot.2 == ... In my DLV11 example, boot.1 == "RESET" and "JMP @#173000" (and by "RESET", I mean the PDP11 instruction RESET). After that, the BDV11 (or KDF11B, KDJ11 or whatever) takes care of boot.2. I absolutely admit that it wouldn't always work, but it would work a lot of the time. And a little bit of extra code in the DDCMP driver is "free"... I see your point. Yes, clearly you could look for the MOP Boot message (boot.1) in a software DDCMP driver, and handle that just as you described. And whenever that software driver is operational, the result would be exactly what people expect. The difference with, say, a DMC11 is that the Boot message handling in the DMC still works even if the CPU is halted, while the one in the software DDCMP driver doesn't. But with those limitations it would indeed be a perfectly reasonable/useful thing to do. paul

11 years, 6 months

Which DECnet interfaces support remote, unattended, booting?

by bob＠jfcl.com

Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: So you only see it on controllers that have their own microprocessor to implement that part of MOP, One more question and I'll quiet down - it's funny, but as far as I can tell, none of the QBUS synchronous cards could do this. Neither the DPV11 nor DUV11 entries in my handbook say anything about booting. The DPV, in particular, implemented DDCMP (and BISYNC, HDLC, SDLC, and several others) in the controller and was probably at least as powerful as the DMR11, but it doesn't boot. It looks like the DELQA is the only possible option for remote triggering a QBUS 11, and even that one is uncertain.

11 years, 6 months

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HECnet May 2013