HECnet May 2013

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38 participants
680 discussions

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/18/2013 12:52 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I hope you've never used Microsoft Access. ;) No, I haven't. That requires Windows, and I've never used Windows. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:49, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. Another suggestion of having one table per area was given, which should be pretty doable as well. There are some issues that become more burdensome, but it might be worth looking into. It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I've been trying to avoid databases all my life, but when I got my hands on Datatrieve I had to come up with some kind of project to use it in, since I like to test all my PDP-11 software. And the first thing I started on was the nodename database, and right now it has started to pay off a little, since I can easily do various things with the data, and it has turned out to be helpful a couple of times... Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. I second this. How flexible is Datatrieve's permissions system? It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. I hope you've never used Microsoft Access. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:45, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:35, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. One thing I always like to have is some kind of uniformity. That is always harder to get with many people entering data. But I guess that can be addressed by having some explicit guidelines. Yeah, I've noticed that about INFO.TXT. Not everyone follows the same syntax. Right now, the uniformity (as far as it goes) comes from just my head. Always good when your head has uniformity. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:45, Cory Smelosky wrote: On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 15:00, Brian Hechinger wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? You could do separate mini-dbs for each area that each person can modify. Yes. That is what the separate table reference meant pretty much. Hmm, I could perhaps do that, with only me being able to add to the tables, but designated persons being able to modify data in there. Definitely a possibly solution. Johnny Johnny -brian On May 17, 2013, at 12:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-05-17 16:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: On 2013-05-16 18:28, Johnny Billquist wrote: This is a totally volontary thing. I've finally come to the point where I think that there are a few more pieces of data on nodes that would be nice/useful to have from time to time. Much of the information you want (all of it, I think) is already in the INFO.TXT file - $ type legato""::info.txt .... ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES 2.1 |LEGATO|Bob Armstrong |bob at jfcl.com |simh |OpenVMS 7.3|Milpitas, CA, US|DCN Multinet Ro uter 2.2 |POCO | | |MicroVAX-2000 | | |6MB, RD54, TK50 2.4 |MEZZO | | |PDP-11/53 |RSTS | |3.5MB, 2xRA73,TK70, SCSI 2.6 |LARGO | | |VAX-11/730 |VMS 4.7 | |R80, 2xRA81, RL02, RX02, TU80 2.7 |CODA | | |DS20E |OpenVMS 8.3| | 2.9 |DIVISI| | |VAX-8350 |VMS 5.5-2 | |16MB, RA81, RA82, TU81+ 2.10 |ADAGIO| | |VAXserver 3900 |VMS 6.0 | |RA81, RX50, 2xRD54, Kennedy 9610, RRD50, RF31, 2xRF71, RF72, SQ703, Exabyte 8505 2.11 |LENTO | | |PDP-11/73 |RSX-11M+ | |2xRD32, RX50, RL02, Kennedy 9600 2.12 |JENSEN| | |DEC 2000 axp |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.13 |ZITI | | |eBox-3310 |Ubuntu | | 2.14 |MULTIA| | |Multia UDB |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.15 |PAVANE| | |DECstation 3100 |Ultrix | |MIPS box w/DECnet-Ultrix 2.16 |SKETTI| | |HP ProLiant ML110G4 |Ubuntu | | 2.18 |DSRVB1| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | 2.19 |DSRVB2| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | FWIW, keeping a central database up to date is going to be a nightmare - that's why we invented the INFO.TXT files; so each sysadmin could locally update his own information. Yes. I know... :-) Which I said this is all voluntary and so on. I've just felt that the INFO.TXT is not really working that well either. At least not from my point of view. I'm willing to try different things. I could consider some automatic scraping and population of the nodename database from some distributed sources as well, if we can come up with something that seems reasonable. Oh, and thanks. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 05/18/2013 12:45 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. That's a really good idea. It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. Indeed. Very true. Datatrieve is not that different from something like MySQL really. Different syntax, and some different capabilities (mostly more restricted), but otherwise not that strange. If you've ever played with such things. I've done a lot of database work, going back to Ingres and QUEL. I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys databases...I think most people find database work to be dry and boring, but I find it fascinating and stimulating. I've seen DTR applications used in production but have never had any exposure at all to the software...having something to actually *do* with it, like this node database for HECnet, is great stuff, and a great way to learn. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2013-05-18 18:45, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 18:35, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. I can certainly do that. It just becomes a question of people might need to reenter information in case a rollback has to go far. Also trickier to realize if "corruption" actually have happened perhaps. On the other hand, I could atleast have permissions that only allowed random people to modify data, not add new, nor delete. One thing I always like to have is some kind of uniformity. That is always harder to get with many people entering data. But I guess that can be addressed by having some explicit guidelines. Right now, the uniformity (as far as it goes) comes from just my head. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: On 05/18/2013 12:04 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? I like the idea of giving us all write access. Maybe you can set up regular dumps of the database for restoration in case someone screws up. It would give some of us a chance to learn Datatrieve in a real-world scenario. I myself have never worked with it and would like to learn it; I learn best by doing. I wouldn't mind learning Datatrieve either...I bet it'd beat MySQL for sure! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Holy crap!! On 05/18/2013 11:06 AM, H Vlems wrote: A list of my systems: 44.1 HELIUM VAXstation 3100-M48 VMS 7.2 44.2 XENON VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.2 44.3 ARGON VAXstation 4000-90A VMS 7.3 44.4 NEON Asus Eee pc Fedora 14 44.5 ZILVER VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.3 44.6 JODIUM VAXstation 2000 VMS 5.5-1 44.7 RADON VAXstation 3100 VMS 5.5-1 44.8 ASTAAT DECserver 100 44.9 OSMIUM Digital Server 5305 5/533 VMS 8.3 44.10 CHLOOR VAXstation 4000-90A VMS 7.2 44.11 ZWAVEL microVAX 3100-10e VMS 6.1 44.12 INDIUM VXT2000+ 44.13 ERBIUM AlphaServer 800 5/500 Tru64 5.0 44.14 BROOM AlpaServer 1200 5/400 VMS 7.3-2 44.15 FOSFOR VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.3 44.16 COBALT VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.3 44.17 KOPER VAXstation 2000 VMS 5.5-1 44.18 CERIUM VAX 4000-100A VMS 7.3 44.19 IJZER Compaq XP1000 6/500 VMS 8.3 44.20 CHROOM VAX 4000-100A VMS 7.3 44.21 NIKKEL VAXstation 4000-90A VMS 7.3 44.22 ZINK VAXstation 4000 VLC VMS 7.3 44.23 LOOD microVAX 3100-30 VMS 7.3 44.24 CURIUM Multia VX42 4/233 VMS 7.3 44.25 KWIK VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.3 44.26 AURUM Integrity rx2600 VMS 8.4 44.27 RADIUM HP dc5000 sff Windows XP 44.28 TIN AlphaServer 1200 5/533 VMS 8.3 44.29 FLUOR AlphaServer 1000A 5/333 VMS 7.3-2 44.30 BOOR VAXstation 4000-60 VMS 7.1 44.31 SELEEN microVAX 3100-20e VMS 6.1 44.32 ARSEEN microVAX 3100-20e VMS 6.1 44.33 CARBON DEC AXP 3000-300X VMS 1.5-1H1 44.34 OXYGEN DEC AXP 3000-300X VMS 6.1 44.35 TITAAN AlphaServer DS20E 6/666 VMS 8.3 44.36 URAAN AlphaServer 1000A 5/333 VMS 8.3 44.37 BARIUM AlphaServer 1200 5/533 VMS 8.3 44.38 CESIUM Digital Server 5305 5/533 VMS 8.3 44.39 KALIUM AlphaServer 300 Tru64 5.1a 44.40 SODIUM Digital Server 5305 5/533 VMS 8.3 44.41 AZOTE <not in use> 44.42 VISMUT AlphaServer 800 5/333 Tru64 5.1a 44.43 OZON AlphaServer DS10 6/466 VMS 8.4 44.1023 A44RTR simh VAXserver 3900 VMS 6.1 -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 11 months

Another sillyness. More information in the nodename database on MIM.

by b4＠gewt.net

On Sat, 18 May 2013, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2013-05-18 15:00, Brian Hechinger wrote: Is there a way we can get write access to the db? That way we can keep our own info up to date. I was thinking about it. Pros and cons. Easier for updating. Potentially anyone erasing the whole thing. The granularity of permissions is by the whole table. It would perhaps be possible to do something that everyone had their own table, and then I'd just pull data from all of them for various tasks. But then I'd have potential name collision issues and what not... Actually, thinking a bit more, I could probably do some web interface with people having their own passwords and the ability to update just their data that way. Needs some thinking perhaps, but maybe the most doable. Anyone else have some ideas on how to do it? You could do separate mini-dbs for each area that each person can modify. Johnny -brian On May 17, 2013, at 12:03, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2013-05-17 16:18, Bob Armstrong wrote: On 2013-05-16 18:28, Johnny Billquist wrote: This is a totally volontary thing. I've finally come to the point where I think that there are a few more pieces of data on nodes that would be nice/useful to have from time to time. Much of the information you want (all of it, I think) is already in the INFO.TXT file - $ type legato""::info.txt .... ADDR |NAME |OWNER |EMAIL |HARDWARE |OS |LOCATION |NOTES 2.1 |LEGATO|Bob Armstrong |bob at jfcl.com |simh |OpenVMS 7.3|Milpitas, CA, US|DCN Multinet Ro uter 2.2 |POCO | | |MicroVAX-2000 | | |6MB, RD54, TK50 2.4 |MEZZO | | |PDP-11/53 |RSTS | |3.5MB, 2xRA73,TK70, SCSI 2.6 |LARGO | | |VAX-11/730 |VMS 4.7 | |R80, 2xRA81, RL02, RX02, TU80 2.7 |CODA | | |DS20E |OpenVMS 8.3| | 2.9 |DIVISI| | |VAX-8350 |VMS 5.5-2 | |16MB, RA81, RA82, TU81+ 2.10 |ADAGIO| | |VAXserver 3900 |VMS 6.0 | |RA81, RX50, 2xRD54, Kennedy 9610, RRD50, RF31, 2xRF71, RF72, SQ703, Exabyte 8505 2.11 |LENTO | | |PDP-11/73 |RSX-11M+ | |2xRD32, RX50, RL02, Kennedy 9600 2.12 |JENSEN| | |DEC 2000 axp |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.13 |ZITI | | |eBox-3310 |Ubuntu | | 2.14 |MULTIA| | |Multia UDB |OpenVMS 7.3| | 2.15 |PAVANE| | |DECstation 3100 |Ultrix | |MIPS box w/DECnet-Ultrix 2.16 |SKETTI| | |HP ProLiant ML110G4 |Ubuntu | | 2.18 |DSRVB1| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | 2.19 |DSRVB2| | |DECserver-200/MC | | | FWIW, keeping a central database up to date is going to be a nightmare - that's why we invented the INFO.TXT files; so each sysadmin could locally update his own information. Yes. I know... :-) Which I said this is all voluntary and so on. I've just felt that the INFO.TXT is not really working that well either. At least not from my point of view. I'm willing to try different things. I could consider some automatic scraping and population of the nodename database from some distributed sources as well, if we can come up with something that seems reasonable. Oh, and thanks. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

11 years, 11 months

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HECnet May 2013