I have been trying to find TF-series drives for a while, wouldn't mind a 9-track either but not sure I have room for one of those.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf Of Kari Uusim ki
Sent: 25 January 2013 10:41
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Tape drive explosion
TK50Z is a SCSI version as the TZ30 is as well.
I have never seen a TK70 drive with another interface than the QBUS
controller TQK70 or the BI bus controller TBK70.
The two generation of DLT drives after TK70 has had either SCSI or DSSI
interfaces e.g. TZ85/TF85, TZ86/TF86.
Then the DSSI interface was abandoned and all the rest of the DEC branded
DLT drives had a SCSI interface only i.e. TZ87, TZ88, TZ89, TZ90.
I don't know why the DSSI interface was dropped, but I guess the SCSI drives
sold better especially to the Alpha customers.
Regards,
Kari
On 25.1.2013 9:27, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>
wrote:
On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to the
internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from the cassette is
arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If not, the takeup leader should
be replaced.
Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this cartridge is the
spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't rotate causing the drive to
not rewind.
Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally dropped? I've
seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been dropped on the floor.
You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like TZ85, TZ86
and TZ87.
Is this true? According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I can only
be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation DLT
drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible that far.
Ian
.
I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives (TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can
read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which formats the
drive can handle.
Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete truth of
the topic.
Regards,
Kari
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Hang on it. It's great drive and very good a reading old tapes.
A couple of years back, I had the last known copy of the UNIX Circuit Design System (aka UCSD) - we cleaned the tape. Shinned up the head. We figured we had one shot at read it. The had to retry a bunch, but we let it go. Damned if we got the entire tape with out any loss.
Dennis declared them as a "very late delivery" to part of UNIX V7 and Warren now has those bits in TUHS archives.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:09 AM, John H. Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt at yahoo.com> wrote:
I picked up a TSZ08 on Ebay a couple years ago. I haven't used it lately, but it still loads tapes successfully. It's a horizontal 9-track drive like the TSZ07.
John H. Reinhardt
On 1/25/2013 8:00 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
TS08 - great drive, I'd love to find one used.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net <mailto:ian at platinum.net>> wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org <mailto:uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>> wrote:
> On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org <mailto:uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to
the internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from
the cassette is arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If
not, the takeup leader should be replaced.
>>
>> Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this
cartridge is the spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't
rotate causing the drive to not rewind.
> Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally
dropped? I've seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been
dropped on the floor.
>
>>> You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like
TZ85, TZ86 and TZ87.
>>
>> Is this true? According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I
can only be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation
DLT drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible
that far.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> .
>
> I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives
(TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
> Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which
formats the drive can handle.
>
> Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete
truth of the topic.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kari
>
>
>
> ---
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or
not-spam here:
http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=720AED2066A811E29…
Just for clarity, it's not for sale, just acknowledging that there is one around.
On 1/25/2013 8:09 AM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
I picked up a TSZ08 on Ebay a couple years ago. I haven't used it lately, but it still loads tapes successfully. It's a horizontal 9-track drive like the TSZ07.
John H. Reinhardt
On 1/25/2013 8:00 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
TS08 - great drive, I'd love to find one used.
typo: That's TSZ08
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
TS08 - great drive, I'd love to find one used.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
> On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to the internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from the cassette is arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If not, the takeup leader should be replaced.
>>
>> Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this cartridge is the spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't rotate causing the drive to not rewind.
> Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally dropped? I've seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been dropped on the floor.
>
>>> You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like TZ85, TZ86 and TZ87.
>>
>> Is this true? According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I can only be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation DLT drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible that far.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> .
>
> I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives (TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
> Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which formats the drive can handle.
>
> Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete truth of the topic.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kari
>
>
>
> ---
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=720AED2066A811E29…
I picked up a TSZ08 on Ebay a couple years ago. I haven't used it lately, but it still loads tapes successfully. It's a horizontal 9-track drive like the TSZ07.
John H. Reinhardt
On 1/25/2013 8:00 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
TS08 - great drive, I'd love to find one used.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net <mailto:ian at platinum.net>> wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org <mailto:uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>> wrote:
> On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki
<uusimaki at exdecfinland.org <mailto:uusimaki at exdecfinland.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to
the internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from
the cassette is arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If
not, the takeup leader should be replaced.
>>
>> Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this
cartridge is the spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't
rotate causing the drive to not rewind.
> Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally
dropped? I've seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been
dropped on the floor.
>
>>> You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like
TZ85, TZ86 and TZ87.
>>
>> Is this true? According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I
can only be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation
DLT drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible
that far.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> .
>
> I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives
(TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
> Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which
formats the drive can handle.
>
> Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete
truth of the topic.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kari
>
>
>
> ---
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or
not-spam here:
http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=720AED2066A811E29…
TS08 - great drive, I'd love to find one used.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin <ian at platinum.net> wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
> On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
>>
>> On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to the internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from the cassette is arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If not, the takeup leader should be replaced.
>>
>> Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this cartridge is the spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't rotate causing the drive to not rewind.
> Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally dropped? I've seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been dropped on the floor.
>
>>> You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like TZ85, TZ86 and TZ87.
>>
>> Is this true? According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I can only be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation DLT drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible that far.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> .
>
> I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives (TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
> Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which formats the drive can handle.
>
> Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete truth of the topic.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kari
>
>
>
> ---
> Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=720AED2066A811E29…
On 25 Jan 2013, at 10:41, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
I don't know why the DSSI interface was dropped, but I guess the SCSI drives sold better especially to the Alpha customers.
This was about the time DEC sold off DLT to Quantum. As for other applications of DSSI, DEC was going through a lot of big changes in the mid-1990sresulting in them adopting a lot more industry standards, like SCSI and PCI. It was likely cheaper and more effective to adopt newer SCSI tech from QLogic, Symbios or Adaptec than develop a newer higher-speed DSSI standard. SCSI was al-round faster than DSSI also and new Fast SCSI-2 blew it away. Guess it was just progress?
--
Mark Benson
TK50Z is a SCSI version as the TZ30 is as well.
I have never seen a TK70 drive with another interface than the QBUS controller TQK70 or the BI bus controller TBK70.
The two generation of DLT drives after TK70 has had either SCSI or DSSI interfaces e.g. TZ85/TF85, TZ86/TF86.
Then the DSSI interface was abandoned and all the rest of the DEC branded DLT drives had a SCSI interface only i.e. TZ87, TZ88, TZ89, TZ90.
I don't know why the DSSI interface was dropped, but I guess the SCSI drives sold better especially to the Alpha customers.
Regards,
Kari
On 25.1.2013 9:27, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
Ian
Sent from my iPad
On 2013-01-24, at 8:33 PM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
On 25.1.2013 0:26, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
On 2013-01-24, at 2:06 AM, Kari Uusim ki <uusimaki at exdecfinland.org> wrote:
Is the takeup leader (the plastic ribbon which is fastened to the internal reel) intact? Its outer end which grabs the tape from the cassette is arrow-shaped. Is the "arrow" quite in order? If not, the takeup leader should be replaced.
Tape leader is fine on this drive. The problem with this cartridge is the spool inside the cartridge jammed and wouldn't rotate causing the drive to not rewind.
Ok. Cartridge failure, then. Could it have been accidentally dropped? I've seen several times DLT cartriges fail after been dropped on the floor.
You can also read a TK50 tape with a newer DLT drive like TZ85, TZ86 and TZ87.
Is this true? According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Linear_Tape a CompacTape I can only be read by a TK50 and a TK70.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have some newer generation DLT drives, but none of them admit to being backwards compatible that far.
Ian
.
I'm not sure if others than DEC branded DLT drives (TZ85,TZ86,TZ87) can read TK50 tapes, but DEC drives sure do.
Even the front of the drive has leds which indicate which formats the drive can handle.
Like Johnny said, Wikipedia articles aren't always the complete truth of the topic.
Regards,
Kari
---
Filter service subscribers can train this email as spam or not-spam here: http://my.email-as.net/spamham/cgi-bin/learn.pl?messageid=720AED2066A811E29…
.
On 25 Jan 2013, at 07:34, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/25/2013 02:33 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/25/2013 02:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
It's in the naming scheme. TK = DEC interface, TF = DSSI, TZ = SCSI,
TU = massbus, TA = SDI, etc. I've personally never seen a TZ85/86/87,
but if they exist, and conform to the naming scheme, they're SCSI.
Oh wait, duh, I'm half asleep. I have indeed seen them, at least the
TZ86 and TZ87, as I HAVE some here in those nice little half-width tape
changers. They are indeed SCSI.
On 25 Jan 2013, at 07:33, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 01/25/2013 02:27 AM, Ian McLaughlin wrote:
We're any of the other DEC drives released in a scsi version?
It's in the naming scheme. TK = DEC interface, TF = DSSI, TZ = SCSI,
TU = massbus, TA = SDI, etc. I've personally never seen a TZ85/86/87,
but if they exist, and conform to the naming scheme, they're SCSI.
Some of the later TZ8x drives can be found banded as other brands under a DLT model rather than a DEC model number. For example, I have a Compaq DLT4000 20/40 GB drive that's exactly the same hardware as a TZ88 but the badge on the front is different. It works just fine with OpenVMS :) Alas the 88 is too late to read TK50 cartridges... I think.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
