HECnet June 2012

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

38 participants
612 discussions

by Alastair.Boyanich＠au.fujitsu.com

Johnny, Sounds fun. Do you have any other systems down here in .au ? If not and you have some spare time this weekend, I'd love a bit of a hand getting initially one of my systems online. We have a 3 day weekend/long weekend so I'll have more time. I'll try building the newer version of the bridge.c on the SGI, but the old one appears to function. Ports are all still setup as per instructions. Al. -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 9:01 AM To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: [HECnet] Size of HECnet Just some fun details... As of today, there are 321 nodes in the nodename database. They are spread out over 16 areas. We have machines located on (at least) three continents, if I remember right. While not online all the time, I think we currently have atleast the following OSes represented: RSX RSTS/E VMS Ultrix Linux OSF/1 TOPS-10 Tops-20 Windows XP IOS If you know of any errors in this information, more fun facts, or anything else you'd like to share, feel free to do so. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by Alastair.Boyanich＠au.fujitsu.com

[..snip!..] Besides, anyone who thinks I know how to use VMS is a moron, Im a total VMS noob. I know properly 10x about Linux what I do about VMS. That said there are plenty areas I've never had to deal with and mounting without root privileges is seemingly one of them. Thing is it 'just works' in RSX and VMS it 'just don't work' in Linux, at least at a prompt using the conventional tools. [..snip!..] Mark: If your that much of a noob.. I have a "Tips" file/page that's a little less daunting than the VMS-FAQ I used to hand out to people at my uni computer club when they joined the VMS sig or had no idea. I still update it from time to time. http://deviate.fi/~uridium/VMS-TIPS.TXT Maybe a few nuggets in there. Al.

12 years, 5 months

Eeeewwwww

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 6/6/2012 8:03 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Built and ran SIMH 3.9 3.8-1 works just fine (it's what i'm running now) and 3.9 runs fine in my sol11 VM. Did it have something to do with the networking perhaps, maybe a weird interaction with the Crossbow subsystem? We already know that part of that doesn't do things exactly the way we need them to, I wonder if there are other issues. No, this is on zaphod which runs horribly old SXCE. -brian

12 years, 5 months

Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-07 03:17, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 6, 2012, at 9:11 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-07 03:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: pdp11, that's a different story, though I do try to do some more bits from time to time... You mean the gcc PDP-11 backend? Are you mad? :-) Johnny Maybe so, but working on its has been a good learning experience. It actually helped me doing "real work" on gcc. God. I have never fully understood the internals of gcc. I remember identifying some bugs in it several years ago when it targeted VAX. But I did that by writing code, running it through the compiler and reading the output to identify the problem. Then someone else had to go in there and actually figure out how it managed to get it wrong. I also helped the guy doing the original PDP-11 backend for gcc, but once more, I understood the PDP-11 side of things, but not much of the gcc internals... But I have tried. :-) All respect to you then, Paul. Johnny

12 years, 5 months

PDP-11 GCC back-end, was Re: [HECnet] Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 06/06/2012 09:01 PM, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: Strange that gcc has so much trouble for VAX. I thought that had gotten a fair amount of care & feeding lately. pdp11, that's a different story, though I do try to do some more bits from time to time... Are you working on that?? I recently ran across this page: http://www.diane-neisius.de/pdp11/index_E.html ...in which a very enthusiastic person got it running some time ago, but with some pretty significant restrictions. I'd truly love to see the PDP-11 GCC back-end be resurrected and made to be fully functional. It may have a very limited appeal, but I already use GCC-based cross-compilers for many different architectures in both my work and recreational activities (both mostly ARM7), and would love to be able to do some bare-metal PDP-11 work with GCC as well. If you're working on this, allow me to voice my heartfelt support for this effort! -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 5 months

Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by Paul_Koning＠Dell.com

On Jun 6, 2012, at 9:11 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-07 03:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 6, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: ... This is also mildly interesting: http://netbsd0.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/retrocomputing-with-vamp-stack-vax.ht… Always good to see a VAXstation being put to good use. Strange that gcc has so much trouble for VAX. I thought that had gotten a fair amount of care& feeding lately. Sad to say, but gcc really stinks... And the amount of time it needs to compile even something trivial is close to eternity. :-( pdp11, that's a different story, though I do try to do some more bits from time to time... You mean the gcc PDP-11 backend? Are you mad? :-) Johnny Maybe so, but working on its has been a good learning experience. It actually helped me doing "real work" on gcc. paul

12 years, 5 months

Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 6/6/2012 6:13 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: My email client has been slowly squirrelling HECnet emails away in a folder using a rule I set up and then forgot about since I got my shiny new iPad. Is there a cross platform way of achieving uniformity with this kind of thing using gmail hosted mail? Or do I need to configure each client. That'll be a PITA. You mean sorting things into folders? If so then all you need to do is log into the web client and, uh, let me check. :) select the message you want to use as a template (like a hecnet mail) click the More dropdown menu item choose Filter messages like these You should be able to figure it out from there. :) -brian

12 years, 5 months

Multinet Tunnel Connections to SG1::

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-07 03:02, Dave McGuire wrote: On 06/06/2012 08:59 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-07 02:10, Dave McGuire wrote: On 06/06/2012 06:11 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: By the way, as a warning... I seem to remember that DECnet support now have been dropped from Linux. So it might not be in there anymore, if you look at recent versions. Huh? Nope, works fine here, on a two-week-old Mint installation. (Mint is Ubuntu with Canonical's bad decisions un-done) Snip from 2.6-33 release notes: ==== commit f8b55f251012e104093e105483c45c5d85ad3040 Author: Christine Caulfield<christine.caulfield at googlemail.com> Date: Thu Feb 18 11:33:13 2010 +0000 Orphan DECnet Due to lack of time, space, motivation, hardware and probably expertise, I have reluctantly decided to orphan the DECnet code in the kernel. Judging by the deafening silence on the linux-decnet mailing list I suspect it's either not being used anyway, or the few people that are using it are happy with their older kernels. Signed-off-by: Christine Caulfield<christine.caulfield at googlemail.com> Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds<torvalds at linux-foundation.org> ==== I guess the code might still be in there, but there is even less guarantee (if such a thing is possible in an open source project) that it works. Sure, but what I'm disagreeing with is the whole idea of something becoming "unsupported" means it automatically stops working. Oh, sure... I was just pointing out that doing some Linux box for DECnet routings have a larger-than-zero chance that it will stop working at some point, if you get it to work in the first place. At some point, there will be incompatible kernel changes (that's the Linux way...the least stable APIs on the planet!) which will break it, but that hasn't happened yet. Yes. I'm constantly amazed by peoples total fascination and devotion to an OS that is so crooked. Chrissie is on HECnet, so she can expand more on the current status, I guess. Excellent. Hi! We still want DECnet! 8-) :-) I plan to contact the developers when I have a little time and offer to do some more formalized testing against RSTS/E and RSX and get them feedback, and possibly fix some of the issues. This really needs to happen. Well, she is on HECnet, and is already reading this. However, since she formally disowned it, it might be that there is actually noone you could contact... Well, we'll either have to talk her into re-owning it (Hi Chrissie! 8-)) or someone else will have to take up its maintenance. At least eventually, when someone breaks the kernel networking APIs again. I don't know, but I'm almost smelling someone volunteering here... ;-) Johnny

12 years, 5 months

Raspberry Pi + SIMH VAX?

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-06-07 03:01, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote: On Jun 6, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: ... This is also mildly interesting: http://netbsd0.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/retrocomputing-with-vamp-stack-vax.ht… Always good to see a VAXstation being put to good use. Strange that gcc has so much trouble for VAX. I thought that had gotten a fair amount of care& feeding lately. Sad to say, but gcc really stinks... And the amount of time it needs to compile even something trivial is close to eternity. :-( pdp11, that's a different story, though I do try to do some more bits from time to time... You mean the gcc PDP-11 backend? Are you mad? :-) Johnny

12 years, 5 months

Multinet Tunnel Connections to SG1::

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 06/06/2012 08:59 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: On 2012-06-07 02:10, Dave McGuire wrote: On 06/06/2012 06:11 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: By the way, as a warning... I seem to remember that DECnet support now have been dropped from Linux. So it might not be in there anymore, if you look at recent versions. Huh? Nope, works fine here, on a two-week-old Mint installation. (Mint is Ubuntu with Canonical's bad decisions un-done) Snip from 2.6-33 release notes: ==== commit f8b55f251012e104093e105483c45c5d85ad3040 Author: Christine Caulfield <christine.caulfield at googlemail.com> Date: Thu Feb 18 11:33:13 2010 +0000 Orphan DECnet Due to lack of time, space, motivation, hardware and probably expertise, I have reluctantly decided to orphan the DECnet code in the kernel. Judging by the deafening silence on the linux-decnet mailing list I suspect it's either not being used anyway, or the few people that are using it are happy with their older kernels. Signed-off-by: Christine Caulfield <christine.caulfield at googlemail.com> Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <torvalds at linux-foundation.org> ==== I guess the code might still be in there, but there is even less guarantee (if such a thing is possible in an open source project) that it works. Sure, but what I'm disagreeing with is the whole idea of something becoming "unsupported" means it automatically stops working. At some point, there will be incompatible kernel changes (that's the Linux way...the least stable APIs on the planet!) which will break it, but that hasn't happened yet. Chrissie is on HECnet, so she can expand more on the current status, I guess. Excellent. Hi! We still want DECnet! 8-) I plan to contact the developers when I have a little time and offer to do some more formalized testing against RSTS/E and RSX and get them feedback, and possibly fix some of the issues. This really needs to happen. Well, she is on HECnet, and is already reading this. However, since she formally disowned it, it might be that there is actually noone you could contact... Well, we'll either have to talk her into re-owning it (Hi Chrissie! 8-)) or someone else will have to take up its maintenance. At least eventually, when someone breaks the kernel networking APIs again. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

12 years, 5 months

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HECnet June 2012