HECnet December 2012

hecnet@lists.dfupdate.se

43 participants
1079 discussions

by jeep＠scshome.net

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 18:04 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits? On 23 Dec 2012, at 17:59, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: On 12/23/2012 05:56 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: As i'm not getting anywhere with my TOPS-10 endeavours, I thought i'd try something else: older VAXVMS in SIMH's VAX-11/780 simulator. ;) 1). What would be the best/most interesting version to try? 2). Where would I get install media for these older versions? ;) I have a bunch of older VMS distributions. I don't know if they're available anywhere else or not; I would assume so but am not sure. At least several 3.x and 4.x distributions, going back to 3.0. Let me know if they're wanted and I can put them up somewhere. Please upload them, I am quite interested in older VMS. I don't want to squirt them around publicly. Do you have a place on HECnet that I can copy them to? Unfortunately, my link is currently down (Steve's been busy and we've been unable to quite get MWATCH working for me), so we'll need to use some other method. Can you dump them on a system here via scp? I have a pentium II I can give easy access to for that. I will try to deal with that today. So far this morning I have been reworking NETUPDATE because of the large number of node additions and changes. I found a bug when running it on GORVAX::. Seems that Sampsa never changed the SCSSYSTEMID when he changed areas... I'll leave that as an exercise for Sampsa. Sampsa, Tag - you're it! :-) The new version of NETUPDATE is much faster and deals with cluster environments. Current versions should pick up the new version automatically. -Steve I'd say 4.7 for speed and period-correctness, 5.5 for feature fulness. Maybe i'll go with both! Do it! I will! The last release of VMS to run on an 11/780 was, I believe, v6.2. I have a copy of 6.2 in some file format nothing knows. VMS doesn't even seem to. Send me a copy and I'll see if I can figure it out. I found it here: http://wdl1.winworldpc.com/Abandonware%20Operating%20Systems/M isc/OpenVMS%206.2%20%5bVAX%5d.7z ( I hope you can handle 7-zip. > It's probably really VMS backup format and I was using it wrong. ;) ) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

11 years, 11 months

Older VAXVMS Install kits?

by b4＠gewt.net

On 26 Dec 2012, at 10:25, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote: -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:45 To: Johnny Billquist Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits? On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2012-12-24 03:37, Cory Smelosky wrote: On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:33, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote: -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:25 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits? On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:23, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2012-12-24 03:05, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: I might have the wrong tape. Is there some specific reason for V4.6? Get a news VMS version -- I can make V6.something or V7.something available for you -- and then, restore the .B save set to your boot device. Then, you boot from the system disk to continue the install. Back then, VMS was dis- tributed on tape. I've no idea how you access that from SimH. During the boot, VMS will prompt you to enter where the distribution media is mounted and then, it will just do the rest -- just answer to the questions as they arise. If I can find the time, I'll get to my storage unit and pull the V4 (orange wall) tomes with the installation notes for 11/780 just in case. As I remember the procedure, it's kindof tricky to see how you'd do it in simh. On a real 11/780, you'd boot the standalone backup first. Not sure, but I think that would have been a bunch of RX01 floppies. One the standalone backup is running, you can restore the distribution tape .B saveset to the destination disk, and after that, things starts getting easier. However, as simh don't have the FE, nor RX01, how do you get the standalone backup running? I wonder if you could use the standalone backup from a newer VMS to install a really old version. Recent CD distributions boot the standalone backup, and I suspect you would able to boot simh into that. I'm booting VMS 7.3 and running backup from there to image it to another disk. Does it NEED to be standalone backup? Not sure what Cory's real problem is though, as he claims he now restores the .B saveset and still don't get a bootable system. Did the backup restore the saveset without complaints? What is the name of the saveset you are restoring, Cory? Have you atleast read through the installation manual for a recent VMS? I think the basic procedure is unchanged. It copies the backup set without issue. Am I perhaps attaching it to the wrong tape device? (tq) Johnny It can be standalone or not. Try: $backup/image/verify <version-saveset>.b/save <device>: THAT worked. What line did you use before? And why didn't you read the manuals? backup vms052.b/save_set dual: As per the VMS 5.0 documentation, with 50 changed to 52. However, doing backup/image/verify vms052.b/save dua1: worked. Quick Note: You have to use the "/image" qualifier. Saveset "B" is a disk image! "/verify" is for piece of mind Thanks, others said that awhile ago too, and my email client decided to send old messages again And the set that 4.6 needed was REQUIRED., not a .B -Steve I will go back to trying VMS 4.6 in a bit. Anyway. Good that you got somewhere. Johnny -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff! http://gimme-sympathy.org/ My permanently-a-work-in-progress pet project.

11 years, 11 months

Older VAXVMS Install kits?

by jeep＠scshome.net

-----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:45 To: Johnny Billquist Cc: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits? On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:42, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2012-12-24 03:37, Cory Smelosky wrote: On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:33, "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net> wrote: -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Cory Smelosky Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 21:25 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- Subject: Re: [HECnet] Older VAXVMS Install kits? On 23 Dec 2012, at 21:23, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: On 2012-12-24 03:05, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> writes: I might have the wrong tape. Is there some specific reason for V4.6? Get a news VMS version -- I can make V6.something or V7.something available for you -- and then, restore the .B save set to your boot device. Then, you boot from the system disk to continue the install. Back then, VMS was dis- tributed on tape. I've no idea how you access that from SimH. During the boot, VMS will prompt you to enter where the distribution media is mounted and then, it will just do the rest -- just answer to the questions as they arise. If I can find the time, I'll get to my storage unit and pull the V4 (orange wall) tomes with the installation notes for 11/780 just in case. As I remember the procedure, it's kindof tricky to see how you'd do it in simh. On a real 11/780, you'd boot the standalone backup first. Not sure, but I think that would have been a bunch of RX01 floppies. One the standalone backup is running, you can restore the distribution tape .B saveset to the destination disk, and after that, things starts getting easier. However, as simh don't have the FE, nor RX01, how do you get the standalone backup running? I wonder if you could use the standalone backup from a newer VMS to install a really old version. Recent CD distributions boot the standalone backup, and I suspect you would able to boot simh into that. I'm booting VMS 7.3 and running backup from there to image it to another disk. Does it NEED to be standalone backup? Not sure what Cory's real problem is though, as he claims he now restores the .B saveset and still don't get a bootable system. Did the backup restore the saveset without complaints? What is the name of the saveset you are restoring, Cory? Have you atleast read through the installation manual for a recent VMS? I think the basic procedure is unchanged. It copies the backup set without issue. Am I perhaps attaching it to the wrong tape device? (tq) Johnny It can be standalone or not. Try: $backup/image/verify <version-saveset>.b/save <device>: THAT worked. What line did you use before? And why didn't you read the manuals? backup vms052.b/save_set dual: As per the VMS 5.0 documentation, with 50 changed to 52. However, doing backup/image/verify vms052.b/save dua1: worked. Quick Note: You have to use the "/image" qualifier. Saveset "B" is a disk image! "/verify" is for piece of mind... -Steve I will go back to trying VMS 4.6 in a bit. Anyway. Good that you got somewhere. Johnny

11 years, 11 months

HECnet mapping project

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 26 Dec 2012, at 13:45, sampsa at mac.com wrote: the once that don't show up send me their... s/once/ones/g - just woke up. sampsa

11 years, 11 months

Happy Holidays HECnet

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 26 Dec 2012, at 13:24, Jordi Guillaumes i Pons <jg at jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote: Cm'on guys. Do you want a relatively cheap place, with good night life, (relative) safety and not-so-hardcore as Beirut? Come to Barcelona! ;) I'd be cool with that, always liked Catalan joints, used to ski every year in Andorra when I lived in Portugal. Sampsa

11 years, 11 months

HECnet mapping project

by sampsa＠mac.com

On 26 Dec 2012, at 12:49, Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote: Just to cover something here, as far as non-bridge link I *will not* do manual stuff. That's just icky. For the bridge connections I don't see that we have a lot of choice so we'll have to think on that when we get it. Brian, the manual stuff was a duck tape solution - the once that don't show up send me their router + end node CSVs and update them whenever there's a change. For the mapping, it makes no difference where they came from and the format is stupidly simple anyway :) Sampsa

11 years, 11 months

Happy Holidays HECnet

by jg＠jordi.guillaumes.name

Al 26/12/12 02:33, En/na sampsa at mac.com ha escrit: On 26 Dec 2012, at 03:31, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: And I did suggest Switzerland. Nice and neutral. :-) As well as being very central so it's not too far for anyone. (Said half in joke, since I do realize the costs of actually staying here for a couple of days isn't cheap.) Not a fan of CH, way too expensive and kinda dull :) Beirut is too hardcore I guess, maybe one meet in CA and another in UK around the DEC Legacy event? Not that I'm that fond of the UK either, hence my impending departure.. sampsa Cm'on guys. Do you want a relatively cheap place, with good night life, (relative) safety and not-so-hardcore as Beirut? Come to Barcelona! ;)

11 years, 11 months

Cisco DECnet info, was Re: [HECnet] HECnet mapping project

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 12/25/2012 8:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: On 12/25/2012 06:14 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote: Found the problem, STUPI isn't listing you as a known circuit: I think the actual connection is between their Cisco routers. STUPI has nothing to do with it and doesn't know about it. Bob's right; these are GRE tunnels (Peter is a hard-core Cisco guru), both to Peter and to Brian H. (who is quite sharp with Cisco stuff as well!) So how can we do this...I don't think IOS implements NICE, but I'm sure its DECnet routing table can be pulled out via SNMP. Brian (Hechinger), I can set up a read-only SNMP community and your poller (when it discovers an appropriate router) can walk the tree, maybe? And either Sampsa's code can parse that output, or you can reformat it into a consistent format to hand to Sampsa? What do you think? (snmpwalk is your friend!) This is being written in python so I'm sure I won't have any trouble accessing SNMP. I hope. :) I have my router as well, but the more data points the better. I'm nowhere near looking into that just yet however. I will keep you all informed. :) -brian

11 years, 11 months

HECnet mapping project

by wonko＠4amlunch.net

On 12/26/2012 4:30 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote: Actually it looks like I would need to implement various other layers before I could even start on NICE, that might be a bit too much. SNMP might be an option in that case. I don't know much about the details of SNMP, I can look it up of course but I guess there would need to be a format for the routing and end node data, if I can match what CISCO produces then that would make it easier, anyone have any info on this? You guys got off into the woods fast. :) I will look into non-dec router devices after we get the dec ones nailed down with my current code. I'm thinking possibly SNMP for the cisco devices, yes. Not 100% sure that'll work though. As to your router if you don't want to bother with NICE or SNMP just let me know how I remotely query your device. How that happens is up to you so long as it isn't silly. :) A simple API that shoots back something like JSON or XML is fine, for example. We'll talk later when I get to you. :) Just to cover something here, as far as non-bridge link I *will not* do manual stuff. That's just icky. For the bridge connections I don't see that we have a lot of choice so we'll have to think on that when we get it. -brian

11 years, 11 months

HECnet mapping project

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

Actually it looks like I would need to implement various other layers before I could even start on NICE, that might be a bit too much. SNMP might be an option in that case. I don't know much about the details of SNMP, I can look it up of course but I guess there would need to be a format for the routing and end node data, if I can match what CISCO produces then that would make it easier, anyone have any info on this? Regards Rob -----Original Message----- From: Rob Jarratt [mailto:robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com] Sent: 26 December 2012 09:10 To: 'hecnet at Update.UU.SE' Cc: 'sampsa at mac.com' Subject: RE: [HECnet] HECnet mapping project -----Original Message----- From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Johnny Billquist Sent: 26 December 2012 01:24 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Cc: sampsa at mac.com Subject: Re: [HECnet] HECnet mapping project On 2012-12-26 02:13, sampsa at mac.com wrote: On 26 Dec 2012, at 03:00, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote: Yuck. Seriously, if you depend on manual information, it's going to be broken sooner or later. I'm not at all clear what the problem is, though. I can, from MIM, tell which areas are online. And for each area, you can check which nodes are online in that area. After that, it just becomes a question of figuring out how the bits are connected. The problem is the CISCO gear doesnt talk NCP, so we can't do stuff like SHOW KNOW CIRC (to get routers to walk) or SHOW ADJ NODES (to get end nodes). If the CISCO guys want on the map, it'll have to be manual for now.... You'll have the same problem with Rob's DECnet router... And possibly other equipment, or nodes that don't want to talk NICE. I have just downloaded the spec and will think about how easy it would be to add this to the router, not that anyone other than me uses it :-( Johnny

11 years, 11 months

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HECnet December 2012