On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:53:38 +0100, you wrote:
| 1.8 DECnet-20 Operation
|
| DECnet-20 consists of the monitor and front-end components, and
| user-mode utilities. DECnet-20 resides within the TOPS-20 monitor.
| The DN20 is not required for DECnet communications over the NIA20 and
| the CI20.
So maybe you just need to find the right monitor and user-mode utilities. :)
I forgot to say that the Ethernet is the NIA20 thing. Moreover, thanks to
Marc Chametzky, we now do know that the configuration is not built into the
monitor like in TOPS-10 but it's read from a configuration file which
apparently contains everything you'd need to run DECnet-20... :)
Apologies for this self-answer.
HTH again,
G.
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:32:01 -0500, you wrote:
The TOPS-20 host is presently available via IP - 74.143.35.91:1023. In any
case, my knowledge of TOPS-20 is slowly growing *ex nihilo* ... I loaded
the tapes from bitsaver.org and believe that I am running the correct
monitor... (unfortunately, the docs that I've found don't always correspond
to the version of software I've chosen to run).
I'm sure there may be a newer DECnet tape out there; however, the latest I
could find (at the time) was v4, I believe... in any case, one of my
biggest issues is hardware knowledge -- running `netgen` does not seemingly
inquire about the [equivalent] NIC...
As pointed out in other messages, NETGEN is not the right tool for this
task. IIRC DECnet-10 and -20 share a common code base with a good deal of
conditionals, but anyway the idea is the same. On TOPS-10 once the right
monitor is running the job is almost done because things like node name and
address are built into the monitor executable (maybe TOPS-20 is a little
more flexible on this side) so there is no need to do anything more.
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/BB-PBQUA-BM_1990/01/7-documentation/install…
At the above link (hope it does not get truncated) there is something that
could be useful: in appendix C there is a reference to the AN-MONDCN.EXE
that maybe is the monitor you are looking for. Check the following tape:
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v7_0_tcpip_distribution_tape/index.h…
This other tape contains what appears to be the DECnet-20 distribution:
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/BB-H240E-BM_1985/index.html
The above tape contains a DECNET.DOC file that states the following:
| 1.8 DECnet-20 Operation
|
| DECnet-20 consists of the monitor and front-end components, and
| user-mode utilities. DECnet-20 resides within the TOPS-20 monitor.
| The DN20 is not required for DECnet communications over the NIA20 and
| the CI20.
So maybe you just need to find the right monitor and user-mode utilities. :)
HTH,
G.
If it's of any interest to anyone, I can confirm that the Panda distribution is capable of working on DECnet. I just got CALHAN back up and running, although I had to tweak more things than I had expected in order to get it working. I can't even guarantee if I shut it down that it'll come back up. :-)
For reference, in my klt20.ini, I have:
devdef ni0 564 ni20 dedic=true ifc=e1000g1 enaddr=aa:00:04:00:2e:4d
I also set the interface hardware address using "ifconfig e1000g1 ether aa:00:04:00:2e:4d" so that it'd match.
And in my TOPS-20 SYSTEM:7-1-CONFIG.CMD file, I have these settings:
NODE CALHAN 19.302
ETHERNET 0 DECNET
DECNET ROUTER-ENDNODE
DECNET MAXIMUM-ADDRESS 1023
!DECNET BUFFER-SIZE 1467
!DECNET DEFAULT-FLOW-CONTROL NONE
Anyway, it seems to be working. I even did a quick shutdown/restart and it came back online. :-)
--Marc
Thanks again for the replies, folks...
I've skimmed the docs at bitsavers.org, but I agree -- they seem scarce. The docs I have reference NCP, but the tapes I have didn't restore ncp.exe... I'll keep looking... thanks again...
Thanks for the show exec Johnny... I have confirmed that the tape I used is DN20 4.0... I need to go RTFM / see if I missed some files on the DUMP.
$VDIR <*>NCP*.*
PS:<DECNET>
NCP.MEM.1;P777700 4 1603(36) 3-Jun-85 16:11:03 DMCDANIEL
PS:<DECNET-SOURCES>
NCP.HLP.1;P777700 1 118(36) 9-Mar-82 04:24:56 EVANS
NCPTAB.CMD.1;P777700 1 276(36) 7-Dec-82 17:35:59 DMCDANIEL
.CTL.1;P777700 1 1549(7) 12-Apr-85 10:05:16 DMCDANIEL
.MAC.1;P777700 39 99255(7) 15-May-85 21:20:50 DMCDANIEL
Total of 42 pages in 4 files
PS:<SUBSYS>
NCP.HLP.1;P777752 1 118(36) 9-Mar-82 04:24:56 EVANS
NCPTAB.REL.1;P777700 14 7137(36) 11-Oct-87 13:11:37 BROOKS
Total of 15 pages in 2 files
Grand total of 61 pages in 7 files
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:20 PM, <gerry77 at mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:01:21 +0100, you wrote:
> Joe. I believe DECnet V4 might be the latest.
I think so too.
> Afraid I don't know the magic incantations though. Checked the manuals?
Few hours ago, after my first answer to Joe, I've discovered that digitized
docs about TOPS-20 in general (and DECnet-20 in particular) are quite
scarce. Just for comparison: TOPS-10 software notebooks are almost complete
while TOPS-20 ones are almost absent... :(
G.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:03:50 +0100, you wrote:
TOPS-20 Network Configurator for DN20, Version 4A(11)
That seems to be ANF-10 (Advanced Network Functions)
protocol configuration utility.
ANF-10 was a TOPS-10 thing only so this should not be the case. Instead I
think that Johnny is correct when he writes that the thing Joe pasted seems
only related to DECnet over DTEs like synchronous links, not Ethernet.
I had very little experience with TOPS-20 and from
what I see it was quite different on TOPS-10. But I
would certainly look for DECnet-20 and I would not
expect more than phase III.
I'm sure that DECnet-20 V4 did Phase IV too. :)
G.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 00:01:21 +0100, you wrote:
Joe. I believe DECnet V4 might be the latest.
I think so too.
Afraid I don't know the magic incantations though. Checked the manuals?
Few hours ago, after my first answer to Joe, I've discovered that digitized
docs about TOPS-20 in general (and DECnet-20 in particular) are quite
scarce. Just for comparison: TOPS-10 software notebooks are almost complete
while TOPS-20 ones are almost absent... :(
G.
On 2012-01-12 00:03, Rok Vidmar wrote:
TOPS-20 Network Configurator for DN20, Version 4A(11)
That seems to be ANF-10 (Advanced Network Functions)
protocol configuration utility.
ANF-10 has nothing to do with DECnet, but later on
you could upload DN20 with DECnet IV image to have
DECnet connectivity over synchronous lines.
I had very little experience with TOPS-20 and from
what I see it was quite different on TOPS-10. But I
would certainly look for DECnet-20 and I would not
expect more than phase III.
DECnet-20 is phase IV. Don't anyone read when I paste in stuff from NCP here?
Here is some more explicit output then:
.ncp tell sol sho exec cha
Node characteristics as of 12-JAN-12 00:16:09
Executor node = 59.10 (SOL)
Identification = Systems Concepts SF CA USA - SC30M - DN-20 4.0, Management version = 4.0.0
Loop count = 1, Loop length = 127
Loop with = Mixed, Incoming timer = 30
Outgoing timer = 60, NSP version = 4.0.0
Maximum links = 65535, Delay factor = 48
Delay weight = 10
Inactivity timer = 120, Retransmit factor = 10
Routing version = 2.0.0, Type = Routing IV
Routing timer = 600
Broadcast routing timer = 40, Maximum address = 1023
Maximum circuits = 20
Maximum cost = 100
Maximum hops = 16, Maximum visits = 20
Maximum broadcast endnodes = 64
Maximum broadcast routers = 32
Maximum buffers = 80, Buffer size = 576
Segment buffer size = 576
.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
TOPS-20 Network Configurator for DN20, Version 4A(11)
That seems to be ANF-10 (Advanced Network Functions)
protocol configuration utility.
ANF-10 has nothing to do with DECnet, but later on
you could upload DN20 with DECnet IV image to have
DECnet connectivity over synchronous lines.
I had very little experience with TOPS-20 and from
what I see it was quite different on TOPS-10. But I
would certainly look for DECnet-20 and I would not
expect more than phase III.
--
Regards, Rok
Joe. I believe DECnet V4 might be the latest.
However, you must be missing something, since the dialog you pasted in here only asks about creating DECnet links over DTE, which is not ethernet.
Afraid I don't know the magic incantations though. Checked the manuals?
Johnny
On 2012-01-11 22:32, Joe Ferraro wrote:
Thanks for the responses...
There is no decnet connectivity to the TOPS 20 host...
The TOPS-20 host is presently available via IP - 74.143.35.91:1023
<http://74.143.35.91:1023>. In any case, my knowledge of TOPS-20 is
slowly growing /ex nihilo/ ... I loaded the tapes from bitsaver.org
<http://bitsaver.org> and believe that I am running the correct
monitor... (unfortunately, the docs that I've found don't always
correspond to the version of software I've chosen to run).
I'm sure there may be a newer DECnet tape out there; however, the latest
I could find (at the time) was v4, I believe... in any case, one of my
biggest issues is hardware knowledge -- running `netgen` does not
seemingly inquire about the [equivalent] NIC...
$netgen
TOPS-20 Network Configurator for DN20, Version 4A(11)
[Type START to begin configuration dialog]
NETGEN>start
Node name: tx0
Node address: 20.3
?Not confirmed: ""
Node address: 2
Transmit password: <blah>
What DTE port number is used for this DN20: 0
?Value is out of range: "0"
What DTE port number is used for this DN20: 1
The total number of DMC11s and DMR11s must not exceed 6
How many DMC11 lines are on this DN20: 1
DMC-0 Cost: 1
How many DMR11 lines are on this DN20:
How many KDPs are on this DN20:
[Configuration Saved On: PS:<DECNET>TX0.CNF.1]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>NMLACC.MAC.1] [OK]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>CETAB.MAC.1] [OK]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>NETPAR.MAC.1] [OK]
[Configuration complete]
Type SAVE and FINISH after any additional changes
Type EXIT to terminate NETGEN
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:24 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl
<mailto:hvlems at zonnet.nl>> wrote:
Joe,
Could you explain how the TOPS-20 system is connected to your network?
Your mail indicates the ability to do a SET HOST from WOPR to
TOPS20, is that right?
If so then there is DECnet connectivity between WOPR and TOPS20.
or am I missing something?
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Joe Ferraro
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se <mailto:hecnet at update.uu.se>
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Onderwerp: [HECnet] TOPS-20 DECnet
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 03:49
I'll echo the sentiment of not wanting to sound like an AOL user....
With all of the recent, invigorating HECnet discussion, I am curious
if anyone has a decent [approachable] resource for getting a TOPS-20
instance on the [HEC] net. I have a non-panda instance up (ARPAnet),
and have a version of DECnet [apparently] installed, but no dice
with HECnet connectivity. Worse case I guess I may use a captive
account of sorts to gateway from WOPR:: to the 20x node via
telnet.... but that just seems wrong in principle... Joe
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Thanks for the responses...
There is no decnet connectivity to the TOPS 20 host...
The TOPS-20 host is presently available via IP - 74.143.35.91:1023. In any case, my knowledge of TOPS-20 is slowly growing ex nihilo ... I loaded the tapes from bitsaver.org and believe that I am running the correct monitor... (unfortunately, the docs that I've found don't always correspond to the version of software I've chosen to run).
I'm sure there may be a newer DECnet tape out there; however, the latest I could find (at the time) was v4, I believe... in any case, one of my biggest issues is hardware knowledge -- running `netgen` does not seemingly inquire about the [equivalent] NIC...
$netgen
TOPS-20 Network Configurator for DN20, Version 4A(11)
[Type START to begin configuration dialog]
NETGEN>start
Node name: tx0
Node address: 20.3
?Not confirmed: ""
Node address: 2
Transmit password: <blah>
What DTE port number is used for this DN20: 0
?Value is out of range: "0"
What DTE port number is used for this DN20: 1
The total number of DMC11s and DMR11s must not exceed 6
How many DMC11 lines are on this DN20: 1
DMC-0 Cost: 1
How many DMR11 lines are on this DN20:
How many KDPs are on this DN20:
[Configuration Saved On: PS:<DECNET>TX0.CNF.1]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>NMLACC.MAC.1] [OK]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>CETAB.MAC.1] [OK]
[Generating PS:<DECNET>NETPAR.MAC.1] [OK]
[Configuration complete]
Type SAVE and FINISH after any additional changes
Type EXIT to terminate NETGEN
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:24 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Joe,
Could you explain how the TOPS-20 system is connected to your network?
Your mail indicates the ability to do a SET HOST from WOPR to TOPS20, is that right?
If so then there is DECnet connectivity between WOPR and TOPS20.
or am I missing something?
Hans
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Joe Ferraro
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at update.uu.se
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] TOPS-20 DECnet
Verzonden: 10 januari 2012 03:49
I'll echo the sentiment of not wanting to sound like an AOL user.... With all of the recent, invigorating HECnet discussion, I am curious if anyone has a decent [approachable] resource for getting a TOPS-20 instance on the [HEC] net. I have a non-panda instance up (ARPAnet), and have a version of DECnet [apparently] installed, but no dice with HECnet connectivity. Worse case I guess I may use a captive account of sorts to gateway from WOPR:: to the 20x node via telnet.... but that just seems wrong in principle... Joe
