On 2011-07-14 21.22, Mark Wickens wrote:
OK Johnny,
So to not appear too one tracked, and maybe draw the subject a little
more towards your heart ;)
Since my recent acquisition of various PDP handbooks I've decided to
delve the world of PDPs a little now I've been able to read up on the
(somewhat confusing) model numbers.
Could I have recommendations of where to go in terms of an emulator
(assume linux based), which model and operating system?
What I'd like to do is play with some of the languages, especially but
not exclusively APL, I don't know what software there is out there,
whether licenses are required, etc.
I'm guessing this is all very much before the SPL started...
Thanks for the help, Mark.
Those are not neccesarily easy questions to answer.
As for emulator, simh is free, but I'd say e11 is better. So it depends on your preferences. :-)
They both probably work well enough for your needs, though.
What you want to emulate, though, is something with all the "features" that you might want to use, which means lots of memory, split I/D-space and supervisor mode. This means:
11/44, 11/53, 11/7x, 11/8x or 11/9x machines.
As for operating system, that depends on your preferences. I can't really say what you should go with. An additional complication is that there aren't free licenses for some of the stuff, and it's still commercial products.
Johnny
OK Johnny,
So to not appear too one tracked, and maybe draw the subject a little more towards your heart ;)
Since my recent acquisition of various PDP handbooks I've decided to delve the world of PDPs a little now I've been able to read up on the (somewhat confusing) model numbers.
Could I have recommendations of where to go in terms of an emulator (assume linux based), which model and operating system?
What I'd like to do is play with some of the languages, especially but not exclusively APL, I don't know what software there is out there, whether licenses are required, etc.
I'm guessing this is all very much before the SPL started...
Thanks for the help, Mark.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: donderdag, juli 2011 20:51
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness....
On 2011-07-14 19.56, MG wrote:
On 13-7-2011 11:32, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Just that the discussions lately seems to have started assuming that
everyone is running VMS. :-)
If so, wouldn't there be a solid rationale behind that thought? VMS is,
by default,
offering DECnet and out-of-the-box. So, for the sake of DECnet and
genuine usage
thereof, it could hence be seen as a big and important player in that
regard, correct?
VMS does not by default offer DECnet. It's a separate license you need
to install.
But yes, VMS is very much associated with DECnet, and DECnet is very
well integrated in VMS.
So it's an important player when we say DECnet.
But it's by no means the only one, or one you have to have, to run DECnet.
But I know that most people know that this is not true. I just felt
like pointing it out. Not trying
to offend anyone.
I don't know what most people know, but I *did* get the impression that
discussion on
VMS would have been allowed or not considered off-topic. So, you'll have
to excuse me
for having participated in that discussion about VMS and related things
and I'll refrain
from doing so in the future in my messages addressed to this mailing list.
Please don't read too much in to it. Talk about VMS is definitely not
banned. I just thought it was becoming perhaps a little too much last
week, considering the normal volume of mail on this list, and reflecting
on the fact that not everyone might be interested.
There were smileys in my mail...
Johnny
-----
DEC asked a pretty hefty fee for the privilege to run DECnet.
If only that license would have been free, and available to 3rd parties,
well then DECnet would have been somewhat more important.
And yes, I realize its design limitations in phase IV.
There were indeed smileys in your mail Johnny! I guess most of us have a
favorite DEC OS. Mine happen to be VMS and RT-11.
RSX-11 just didn't sit well on a PDP-11/40 with one RK05 and a DECtape I
unit.
Hans
On 2011-07-14 19.56, MG wrote:
On 13-7-2011 11:32, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Just that the discussions lately seems to have started assuming that
everyone is running VMS. :-)
If so, wouldn't there be a solid rationale behind that thought? VMS is,
by default,
offering DECnet and out-of-the-box. So, for the sake of DECnet and
genuine usage
thereof, it could hence be seen as a big and important player in that
regard, correct?
VMS does not by default offer DECnet. It's a separate license you need to install.
But yes, VMS is very much associated with DECnet, and DECnet is very well integrated in VMS.
So it's an important player when we say DECnet.
But it's by no means the only one, or one you have to have, to run DECnet.
But I know that most people know that this is not true. I just felt
like pointing it out. Not trying
to offend anyone.
I don't know what most people know, but I *did* get the impression that
discussion on
VMS would have been allowed or not considered off-topic. So, you'll have
to excuse me
for having participated in that discussion about VMS and related things
and I'll refrain
from doing so in the future in my messages addressed to this mailing list.
Please don't read too much in to it. Talk about VMS is definitely not banned. I just thought it was becoming perhaps a little too much last week, considering the normal volume of mail on this list, and reflecting on the fact that not everyone might be interested.
There were smileys in my mail...
Johnny
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 1:51 PM, MG <marcogb at xs4all.nl> wrote:
On 13-7-2011 13:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
The RS/6000 is just a AIX / random Unix box, whereas the AS/400 is WEIRD.
Personally speaking, I never cared much for AIX myself. IBM also entered
the UNIX
market relatively late (compared to SGI, HP, DEC and so on).
As for the AS/400 platform, now that's an interesting operating system (I
usually
log onto RZKh.de for that) and the type of system that IBM traditionally
peddled.
(A bit like what VMS, RT-11, RSX, etc. were to DEC, later Compaq and HP
now.)
I wouldn't mind having an AS/400 either, it'd make a nice DB2 test
environment.
Especially those physically smaller systems, like the 9401-P03 with the
original
CISC processor (before "System i" and what-not, or whatever IBM calls it
today).
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468965124/
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468966604/
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468967646/
(The above pictures are of/by the proprietor of IPv7.net, who's also a
'partaker'
in HECnet.)
- MG
Hello!
I agree! I've met my share of these IBM boxes, and that one and two
others seemed interesting.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On 13-7-2011 11:32, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Just that the discussions lately seems to have started assuming that everyone is running VMS. :-)
If so, wouldn't there be a solid rationale behind that thought? VMS is, by default,
offering DECnet and out-of-the-box. So, for the sake of DECnet and genuine usage
thereof, it could hence be seen as a big and important player in that regard, correct?
But I know that most people know that this is not true. I just felt like pointing it out. Not trying
to offend anyone.
I don't know what most people know, but I *did* get the impression that discussion on
VMS would have been allowed or not considered off-topic. So, you'll have to excuse me
for having participated in that discussion about VMS and related things and I'll refrain
from doing so in the future in my messages addressed to this mailing list.
- MG
On 13-7-2011 13:05, Sampsa Laine wrote:
The RS/6000 is just a AIX / random Unix box, whereas the AS/400 is WEIRD.
Personally speaking, I never cared much for AIX myself. IBM also entered the UNIX
market relatively late (compared to SGI, HP, DEC and so on).
As for the AS/400 platform, now that's an interesting operating system (I usually
log onto RZKh.de for that) and the type of system that IBM traditionally peddled.
(A bit like what VMS, RT-11, RSX, etc. were to DEC, later Compaq and HP now.)
I wouldn't mind having an AS/400 either, it'd make a nice DB2 test environment.
Especially those physically smaller systems, like the 9401-P03 with the original
CISC processor (before "System i" and what-not, or whatever IBM calls it today).
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468965124/
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468966604/
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/31231773 at N02/4468967646/
(The above pictures are of/by the proprietor of IPv7.net, who's also a 'partaker'
in HECnet.)
- MG
Mark,
I'm not sure if it is the version you are looking for:
Take a look at wopr:: (or) telnet://wopr.adelphos.org
login with games / games - I believe it is option G on the menu...
If it is the version you seek, I can send it to you...
Joe
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
Is this a creation from one of us? He is hosting the DECUS and Freeware archive - I'm wondering if it's possible to get a copy for HECnet.
I've not quite got my head round how to search for stuff in the decus archives. I was trying to find Classic Empire for VAX/VMS which apparently was ported by DECUS, but the link from the http://www.classicempire.com/ website is now throwing an error: http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/v00012.html
Cheers, Mark.
Does the emulator come with an OS?
What I actually mean is: it available for hobbyists?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning <paul_koning at dell.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:13:00
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness....
Yes, 60 bits one's complement, oddball floating point format, 12 bit one's complement I/O processors...
Your memory is quite good. That's just how it works, in all the various OSs I know.
BTW, there exists an emulator -- DtCyber ("Desktop Cyber").
paul
On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
A CDC 6000 no less, that's a 60 bit architecture right?
SCOPE (?) is somewhat arcane though. I remember entering an Algol program and then compiled it. Somebody asked a question and having forgotten what I'd done, tried to compile again. The OS said:
No such file or at end of file.
The user had to type the REWIND command. The compiler could then read the sourcefile again :-)
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul Koning
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness....
Verzonden: 13 juli 2011 16:52
On Jul 13, 2011, at 9:39 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Ah, so that's your specification for an interesting system: weird with DECnet :-)
Apart from the DECnet requirement, if you want weird I don't think you can top a CDC 6000 series machine. The size can be a bit problematic, I suppose.
My dream (about 10% complete) is to build a replica in an FPGA. I have the schematics to do it, it's just a whole lot of work...
paul
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
Yes, 60 bits one's complement, oddball floating point format, 12 bit one's complement I/O processors...
Your memory is quite good. That's just how it works, in all the various OSs I know.
BTW, there exists an emulator -- DtCyber ("Desktop Cyber").
paul
On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:08 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
A CDC 6000 no less, that's a 60 bit architecture right?
SCOPE (?) is somewhat arcane though. I remember entering an Algol program and then compiled it. Somebody asked a question and having forgotten what I'd done, tried to compile again. The OS said:
No such file or at end of file.
The user had to type the REWIND command. The compiler could then read the sourcefile again :-)
------Origineel bericht------
Van: Paul Koning
Afzender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] Towards the Mouth of Madness....
Verzonden: 13 juli 2011 16:52
On Jul 13, 2011, at 9:39 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Ah, so that's your specification for an interesting system: weird with DECnet :-)
Apart from the DECnet requirement, if you want weird I don't think you can top a CDC 6000 series machine. The size can be a bit problematic, I suppose.
My dream (about 10% complete) is to build a replica in an FPGA. I have the schematics to do it, it's just a whole lot of work...
paul
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
