On 11/29/10 10:45, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think.
Ah. :-)
As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
What is Chimpy?
I upgraded SIGGE from 256M to 1.25G a few weeks ago, and I had to run an AUTOGEN before the memory was recognized by the system (as shown by SHOW MEMORY inside VMS). The hardware saw the memory immediately, but VMS did not want to have anything to do with it before the autogen.
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
That is one of the things AUTOGEN will do for you, yes. :-)
As always, you do not need to run AUTOGEN, you can always trim the parameters yourself if you want to. After all, that is all that AUTOGEN do as well.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
So Chimpy is an emulator? Emulating which model?
Johnny
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
That's a difference between alpha and vax vms, on alpha physical_pages is not required.
About 7.3-1, yes that is obviously a type since there is no such vms version for neither vax nor ia64.
The last vaxes, the 7000 and 10000 series supported 4 GB physical memory. I wasn't aware of more than 32 address bits in the hardware.
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 09:45:13
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think. As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I wrote 7.3-1, out of some weird muscle memory I think. As for AUTOGEN, I recently upgrade CHIMPY from 256 MB to 1 GB and it just recognized the RAM automagically? Am I missing something?
On the VAX it required changing the SYSGEN PHYSICALPAGES parameter.
Gregg: I'm running the emulator on a Dell laptop, Core 2 Duo processory, Ubuntu Desktop + Oracle VirtualBox + Ubuntu Server. As for the Alpha emu, it's not exactly scarce: you can just google for PersonalAlpha and get a Windows version that's kinda restricted but functional.
Sampsa
On 29 Nov 2010, at 09:14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Well, I didn't write 7.3-1, I asked if it really was correct that Sampsa was using it, as I believe 7.3 was the last release for VAX. :-)
And I said "in theory", since I'm not sure any existing VAX ever brought out all 34 address bits, but there are really 34 physical address bits in the VAX extended addressing mode. Check the spec.
The address field in a PTE can be either 21 bits (traditional) or 25 bits (extended). Add to that, the address within the page (9 bits), and you'll end up with either 30 bits, or 34 bits of physical addresses.
32 bit physical addresses have never existed on a VAX.
Johnny
On 2010-11-29 07:07, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:07 AM, <hvlems at zonnet.nl> wrote:
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Hello!
I believe you are right. Sampsa, what in the Name of the Force, and
the fellows who mind Time, are you running VMS under? Simh was ported
to Alpha, it's not happy there, but it works.
And I do recall a reference to an Alpha emulator, its only problem was
one of scarcity. No not the one you told us about not too long ago, a
different one.
--
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
Umm Johnny it must have been late when you wrote this..
The last release for VAX was 7.3. Anything later is alpha or ia64. 7.3-1 was only released for alpha.
The address space for VAX is 32 bits, no page bits. And 2**32 is 4G. Where did you find 16 GB?
------Origineel bericht------
Van:Johnny Billquist
Afzender:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden:hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Verzonden: 29 november 2010 02:03
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of
physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs,
which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures
machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to
change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be
obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs, which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2010-11-28 21:20, Sampsa Laine wrote:
I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) still reports 64 MB.
Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway?
7.3-1 ??? I thought the last version of VMS for VAXen was 7.3
As for memory, VMS (on VAX) supports up to (in theory atleast) 16G of physical memory. However, that requires the extended memory mode PTEs, which only came with NVAX, so no luck with simh.
The "older" layout supports a max of 1G, but I think all architectures machines split that into 512M of RAM and 512M for I/O space.
Oh, and when you add memory, you need to run an AUTOGEN afterwards, to change a bunch of parameters to the new hardware config (whould be obvious ;-) ).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Oh, is that what you meant with "code-fu", I didn't understand that!
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:03:12
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Yes they are, but I don't have the coding skills or time to develop a JIT for it :)
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:59, hvlems at zonnet.nl wrote:
The simh sources are freely available, aren't they?
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:20:32
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Reply-To: hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
If I had the code-fu, I'd love to write a JIT for SIMH, imagine the performance we could get out of it with that...
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 22:18, Mark Wickens wrote:
Still doesn't run as fast as a 3 Ghz NVAX processor. Oh wait, that was only in my dreams....
(did some rough-as comparisons a while back and came to the conclusion that Intel Core Duo and VAX processors were roughly the same performance Hz to Hz).
Mark.
3.8 VUPS for the 3900 only!
Verzonden vanaf mijn draadloze BlackBerry -toestel
From: "Steve Davidson" <jeep at scshome.net>
Sender: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:05:44 -0500
To: <hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
ReplyTo: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Sampsa,
What kind of a laptop and what OS are you running? The 3900 series systems ran about 38 VUPs and the 780 ran at 1 VUP...
-Steve
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:54
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
That worked!
Cool, I now have a 14 VUPS laptop with 512 megs of RAM. Just trying to get DECWINDOWS to work, I'm assuming I can get it to display remotely even though it has no graphics hardware built in, right?
Sampsa
On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:49, H Vlems wrote:
The VAX 11/780 may well have been limited to just 32 MB, I can t remember.
Try modifying PHYSICAL_PAGES, perhaps the microcode that comes with simh was modified.
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens Sampsa Laine Verzonden: zondag, november 2010 21:46 Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness
Ah, bummer - what about the 11/780? Sampsa On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:44, Steve Davidson wrote: > Sampsa, > > I'm pretty sure that the 3900 series machines only supported 64MB max > and that is what you are emulating. > > -Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On > Behalf Of Sampsa Laine > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 15:41 > To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE > Subject: Re: [HECnet] SIMH VAX memory weirdness > > Still only seeing 64 MB in the OS.... > > Sampsa > > > On 28 Nov 2010, at 20:27, Oleg Safiullin wrote: > >> On 29.11.2010 2:20, Sampsa Laine wrote: >>> I just increased the memory on one of my SIMH VAX VM's to 512 MB from > 64 MB - the system boots fine but SHOW MEMORY (under OpenVMS 7.3-1) > still reports 64 MB. >>> >>> Do I need to tell the VMS installation about the new RAM somehow? How > much RAM does 7.3-1 (VAX) support anyway? >>> >>> Sampsa >>> >>> >> >> Try to replace ka655.bin firmware with the following file: >> >> http://pdp-11.org.ru/~form/files/ka655x.bin >
Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht. Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com Versie: 10.0.1170 / Virusdatabase: 426/3285 - datum van uitgifte: 11/28/10
