Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Marc Chametzky:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in HECnet lives in software?
Right now I'm not on HECnet -- someday not too long from now, I hope.
That will be a DECnet/E system emulated in E-11. I do have a Pro or
two, but I'm a bit hesitant to hook that up -- it would have to be by
DDCMP. I suppose it should work, if I hook it to the E-11 based
system and have that be a router.
paul
I'm also currently not on HECnet, but it's a future goal. I have a small herd of Alphas and Integrity systems but no actual VAXen nor PDP's. I hope to create some using VMware's ESXi virtual platform on some HP DL380 G3's that I have. I"m looking into Simh fo rthe VAX and PDP-11's and KLH-10 for a PDP-10
John H. Reinhardt
Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Marc Chametzky:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in HECnet lives in software?
Right now I'm not on HECnet -- someday not too long from now, I hope.
That will be a DECnet/E system emulated in E-11. I do have a Pro or
two, but I'm a bit hesitant to hook that up -- it would have to be by
DDCMP. I suppose it should work, if I hook it to the E-11 based
system and have that be a router.
I've done that in the past over internet, if you are interested.
My PRO (running P/OS) is also running that way, since I don't have a DECNA. :-(
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Marc Chametzky:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety
of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in
HECnet lives in software?
Right now I'm not on HECnet -- someday not too long from now, I hope.
That will be a DECnet/E system emulated in E-11. I do have a Pro or
two, but I'm a bit hesitant to hook that up -- it would have to be by
DDCMP. I suppose it should work, if I hook it to the E-11 based
system and have that be a router.
paul
Chrissie Caulfield wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane, got any RSTS/E system up now? Might be interesting to hear if
it could talk with RSX...
I *STILL* need to find the cables to get my systems up and running. I have
a 20Mbit *Commercial* FIOS line basically going to waste, since until my
servers are up and running a residential line would work just fine
for me.
My RSTS/E system is actually in worse shape than PDXVAX and MONK. At
least
they're in the racks, though they aren't cabled up. The BA123
chassis for
CAMECA is sitting under the workbench in the garage, while I think
most of
the boards are over in the corner where it will live. Realistically
I don't
see me being online for at least another couple months, as I have a
lot of
work to do on the house before the weather gets to bad.
I really miss having my VMS systems online 24x7, or being able to flip a
switch and have a PDP-11 powered up.
Maybe it's just me who's crazy enough to keep several PDP-11 (and
PDP-8) systems up and running at home... :-)
But anyway. DECnet (well, phone, DAP and CTERM) between RSX and Linux
isn't really working, even though it should be pretty similar to
talking with VMS systems (from Linux point of view).
That's bizarre, because I regularly used to use dnlogin on Linux to
connect to MIM (and I also tried it back again) when I was setting up
the link.
I did also do a few file transfers, though they were very basic, so
probably didn't stretch anything very much :)
Hmm. Have you done something then?
Becuase when I tried dlogin, it worked pretty ok, except some packet(s)
broke with the protocol implementation in RSX. And at that point, I also
found that there was some kind of bug in the RSX implementation, because
when I got the protocol errors (usually resulting in a lost connection),
I could also observe that DECnet in RSX was loosing buffers somewhere
that weren't reclaimed. After a while of this, the only thing to do was
to reboot RSX (yes, that is a bug in RSX, but there is/was also a bug in
LAT from Linux, which in turn triggered the bug in RSX.)
As for file trasnfers, I basically never managed to get it to work in
any direction, initiated from any direction.
Admittedly, this was many years ago now (I'd say atleast around five
years ago). Perhaps you have fixed a few things since then?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in HECnet lives in software?
Let's see now. Among the systems I manage...
1.1 (MAGICA) Unreachable
A real 11/70. Only powered on intermittently, but standing ready by the turn of the key. Used to be running 24/7 until a few years ago. Services were moved over to MIM.
1.2 (ERNIE) Unreachable 0 4
A real 11/84. Running 2.11BSD as I write this, but running RSX when on HECnet.
1.3 (FNATTE) Unreachable
A real 11/73. Running RSX. I doubt I'll resurrect that one.
1.4 (GOBLIN) Unreachable
A uVAX 3500. But I think it has been lost to history.
1.5 (ZEKE) Unreachable
This was a VAX 6440. Decomissioned.
1.6 (GNOME) Unreachable
A real VAXstation 3100/76
1.7 (BJARNE) Unreachable
AlphaStation 255. Currently not in running order, but nothing seriously wrong with it.
1.8 (KRILLE) Unreachable
A real VAX-8650. Almost ready by just turning a key as well. Same place as MAGICA. We have a budget "problem" as well as a cooling problem, which is why the machine isn't doing much. To run it, I might need to reconnect a console, as well as separately turning on the cabinets with disks in them, and the HSC-90.
1.9 (TEMPO) Unreachable
Linux
1.10 (SIGGE) Unreachable
A real VAX-7720. We should upgrade it to an 7810 sooner or later. We should have the cpu card somewhere... Running in short order, much like KRILLE.
1.11 (ROCKY) Unreachable
AlphaServer 7000. Decomissioned.
1.12 (PONY) Unreachable
AS2100. Decomissioned.
1.13 (MIM)
Emulated (E11). Pretends it's an 11/74. Up 24/7.
1.14 (TINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. (Really Bjorn Victors responsibility.)
1.15 (PONDUS) Reachable 0 4 UNA-0 1.15 (PONDUS)
A real 11/93. Normally running 24/7.
1.16 (GNAT) Unreachable 0 4
VAXstation 4000/90. Sometimes on, sometimes off.
1.17 (JOSSE) Unreachable 0 30
PC running Windows XP.
1.18 (PAMINA) Unreachable
Emulated. KLH-10. Also Bjorn Victor.
1.19 (BEA) Unreachable 0 30
A real PRO-380 running P/OS.
1.20 (KNASE) Unreachable
Another real 11/70. We have some problem with that machine right now. I think it's a power supply, but we haven't had time to work on it for a while.
We have a third 11/70 as well, which we haven't really looked through yet. Might do something with that one eventually.
Well, that's what I know. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
At my end it's a mix of real hardware and SIMH:
- RHESUS, CHIMPY and CHIMP are real hardware (Itanium/Alpha boxes)
- GORVAX is a SIMH VAX box
I'm also playing around with some 8-bit emulators, I've got MP/M running on the SIMH AltairZ80.
Sampsa
On 20 Aug 2009, at 19:06, Marc Chametzky wrote:
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
The recent downtime thread has sparked much discussion about a variety of DEC (and perhaps some Compaq) hardware, but who among us is living in HECnet lives in software?
I have two systems nominally connected to HECnet, both emulated. I have the SIMH VAX emulator running VMS (DUSTY) and I have Mark Crispin's Panda system running TOPS-20 (CALHAN). Both of these are running as part of virtual Unix systems (one Linux, one Solaris) on a single ESXi box.
I've also played with a couple Alpha emulators from Stromasys (CHARON-AXP on Windows and CHARON-AXP NCE on Linux), but I've not set up a more permanent virtual Alpha system.
I'd set up a virtual PDP-11 to play with as well, perhaps running RSTS/E, but it's been far too long since I've used a PDP-11 to remember how to set it up and maintain it. Same thing with VM/370 or z/VM on Hercules. It's sad how much I've forgotten over the years.
--Marc
Chrissie Caulfield wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane, got any RSTS/E system up now? Might be interesting to hear if
it could talk with RSX...
I *STILL* need to find the cables to get my systems up and running.
I have
a 20Mbit *Commercial* FIOS line basically going to waste, since until my
servers are up and running a residential line would work just fine
for me.
My RSTS/E system is actually in worse shape than PDXVAX and MONK. At
least
they're in the racks, though they aren't cabled up. The BA123
chassis for
CAMECA is sitting under the workbench in the garage, while I think
most of
the boards are over in the corner where it will live. Realistically
I don't
see me being online for at least another couple months, as I have a
lot of
work to do on the house before the weather gets to bad.
I really miss having my VMS systems online 24x7, or being able to flip a
switch and have a PDP-11 powered up.
Maybe it's just me who's crazy enough to keep several PDP-11 (and
PDP-8) systems up and running at home... :-)
But anyway. DECnet (well, phone, DAP and CTERM) between RSX and Linux
isn't really working, even though it should be pretty similar to
talking with VMS systems (from Linux point of view).
That's bizarre, because I regularly used to use dnlogin on Linux to
connect to MIM (and I also tried it back again) when I was setting up
the link.
I did also do a few file transfers, though they were very basic, so
probably didn't stretch anything very much :)
I just logged in to MIM and managed to TYPE a file that was on my Linux system. Can you be more specific about the problems you were seeing? are they incoming or outgoing? which commands were you using?
Chrissie
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Zane H. Healy:
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Paul Koning wrote:
Excerpt of message (sent 20 August 2009) by Zane H. Healy:
Ditto, though last I tried Linux DECnet was in the late 90's. It's
also worth mentioning that DECnet/E seems to have trouble coexisting
with just about anything, so DECnet/Linux isn't alone. :-)
Oh really? That wasn't our experience when we built it...
paul
I suspect it is one of those "version creep" sort of things. I've noticed
that VAX/VMS V5.5-2 is much happier talking with things such as RSTS/E, and
IIRC even RSX-11M+ than say OpenVMS V8.3. Of course my secondary OS is
OpenVMS (primary is Mac OS X), so my comments are coloured a little by it.
I could believe that. Once PDP-11 support was sold off, it would make
sense for interoperability with those operating systems to suffer.
Another area I've had problems with DECnet/E is with the network hardware
itself, and software installation. It is incredibly touchy about your
network switches. I had one switch that every other OS and network stack I
through at it would work, not so DECnet/E, in fact I had to put the PDP-11
on a hub to be able to even install it, as I couldn't do the install when
attached to the switch. The other installation problem was that the
distribution kit doesn't like living on a 4mm DAT. You can install RSTS/E
from 4mm DAT, but as near as I can tell, DECnet/E needs to live on a TK50
(or I assume 9-Track).
I can't understand that. RSTS just installs from plain old tape.
Some kits are backupsets (ANSI labeled), there may be some DOS labeled
tapes (meaning the drive you have must be able to handle 14 byte
blocks) and the RSTS bootable OS install table is a mixed format tape
(first DOS then ANSI).
As for touchy about network switches, in what way? RSTS -- probably
like most PDP-11 systems -- doesn't have much memory for network
buffers, so if your switch bunches the traffic together then that
might cause trouble. But apart from that it's just plain old
Ethernet. The only OS I ever heard of having Ethernet issues was
DECnet/DOS when used with a 3C901 NIC -- which has only a single
buffer so it would croak on back to back packets. (The solution to
that was "buy a real NIC".)
It has been several years since I've been able to play with it much, has
anyone managed to install DECnet/E on an emulated system? About 6 years ago
it refused to install on either E11, or SIMH for me (of course at that point
SIMH networking code was very primitive). IIRC, that is long enough ago I
was using a different switch than the one that gave me so many problems.
Apart from my stint in RSTS development, which by now is almost 25
years ago, I've mostly run RSTS and DECnet/E on E11. It's been a
while since I did that, but it certainly worked in the past; that's
how I did the interop testing with DECnet/Linux. I also at one time
got DECnet/E running on a Pro-380, DDCMP only unfortunately. Some day
I may write a DECNA driver... :-(
paul
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
I really miss having my VMS systems online 24x7, or being able to flip a
switch and have a PDP-11 powered up.
Maybe it's just me who's crazy enough to keep several PDP-11 (and PDP-8) systems up and running at home... :-)
You're not the only one crazy enough. I simply haven't had the cooling, and
can't really afford the electricity. As for the VMS systems, it's simply a
matter of having the time to get them back online now that we are finally
moved into our new house.
Zane
