On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Sampsa Laine <sampsa at mac.com> wrote: As for Jobs, uhh, OS X is an extension of OpenStep which Apple they got the rights to when they acquired Next and they brought Jobs in. What are you talking about? The replacement for Mac OS work started long before Jobs returned. You are right, what they ended up with NextStep/OpenStep etc. But learning to join what we now call the FOSS community began before he returned. Talking to my friends that were there at the time, the tell me that culturally breaking out of the "closed" nature was not something Jobs liked. The engineers inside Apple at the time were what started it. Remember then they were still in the Avis "we try harder" mode to Microsoft and the PC and many of them felt the way to fight redmond was to be part of the unix community etc.. When Jobs returned, they were already participating in the FOSS community. There was a system called MachTen the pre-dated the Next machine ( IIRC that was being used inside of Apple before NextStep also). I ran it on a 68030 based color Mac-II (which I only go rid of about 2 years ago). It was CMU Mach/BSD under the covers and allowed traditional MacOS programs to run. A lot of folks thought it was cool - best of both worlds. Also your comment about App store -- I ask you to please differentiate between the iOS App store and Mac App store, Many Mac developers that I work with do not use the later and I know some are proud of it and display thing on their web sites saying so. If I look at the system in which I am typing this message, very few of the applications come from the Apple store. That said -- I agree with your comment for iOS however and nearly 100% of my iPhone apps come from the store. All do indirectly[the IT shop of my employer loads a program from the store called "apps at work" - and that program some how loads other applications from an Intel specific library]. IMO, with the success of iOS, Apple seems to have gone back to its closed ways and I do find that worrisome. Clem