19 Nov
2021
19 Nov
'21
9:39 p.m.
As far as I know here are programs on Vax Vms that also read Tops10 tapes;
on the 10/20-Vax integration tools there was tenvax: decsystem-10 to Vax to
do something like that. Just google around and you find something.
Intergaration tools are on pdp10 archive.
Reindert
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
Of Robert Armstrong
Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 21:30
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying
through clustering
Thanks, but it's a TOPS10 tape that I want to read, on a simulated KS10
with TOPS10.
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:06 PM, R. Voorhorst wrote:
Use the real vax Vms Ethernet clustered with a simh Vax, enable Mscp disk
and tape serving and you can use the Vms commands like copy, dump and backup
and specific programs to read tapes to move contents onto simh device files
whether disk or tape.
Reindert
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Robert Armstrong
Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 20:23
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Subject: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP
Can someone point me to a program for VMS that will read a real, physical,
9-track tape into a simh compatible TAP or TPC file? I was sure I already
had one, but I can't seem to find it anymore.
Thanks,
Bob
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19 Nov
19 Nov
9:44 p.m.
? Yes, there's a BACKUP/DUMPER program for VMS.? Works great for text,
but it mangles 36 bit binary files (e.g. .EXE, .REL, .UNV, etc).? Or at
least I've never found a way to get the files back from VMS to TOPS10
and have them still be functional.
? Reading the tape on TOPS10 with actual BACKUP seems like the best
plan, but thanks for the suggestions.
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:39 PM, R. Voorhorst wrote:
As far as I know here are programs on Vax Vms that also read Tops10
tapes; on the 10/20-Vax integration tools there was tenvax:
decsystem-10 to Vax to do something like that. Just google around and
you find something. Intergaration tools are on pdp10 archive.
Reindert
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
*On Behalf Of *Robert Armstrong
*Sent:* Friday, 19 November, 2021 21:30
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS
copying through clustering
? Thanks, but it's a TOPS10 tape that I want to read, on a simulated
KS10 with TOPS10.
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:06 PM, R. Voorhorst wrote:
Use the real vax Vms Ethernet clustered with a simh Vax, enable
Mscp disk and tape serving and you can use the Vms commands like
copy, dump and backup and specific programs to read tapes ?to move
contents onto simh device files whether disk or tape.
Reindert
*From:* owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
[mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] *On Behalf Of *Robert Armstrong
*Sent:* Friday, 19 November, 2021 20:23
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
*Subject:* [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP
? Can someone point me to a program for VMS that will read a real,
physical, 9-track tape into a simh compatible TAP or TPC file??? I
was sure I already had one, but I can?t seem to find it anymore.
Thanks,
Bob
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9:52 p.m.
? There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes
to disk container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length
record files for its container.? Each file record is one tape record.?
Not simh compatible, although I could write a program to convert to tap
format.
Bob
9:56 p.m.
You could use Glen Everhardt's program to read the physical tape and store it locally
in RMS format. Then you could move the RMS file across your cluster environment (or
access it directly) on a sim VAX to write to a simh simulated tape drive. The file
attached to the simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be readable
just find on a simh KS10.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of
Robert Armstrong
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying through
clustering --> tenvax rtc
There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes to disk
container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length record files for its
container. Each file record is one tape record. Not simh compatible, although I could
write a program to convert to tap format.
Bob
9:59 p.m.
How does RMS format encode tape marks?
paul
On Nov 19, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Mark Pizzolato - Info
Comm <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
You could use Glen Everhardt?s program to read the physical tape and store it locally in
RMS format. Then you could move the RMS file across your cluster environment (or access
it directly) on a sim VAX to write to a simh simulated tape drive. The file attached to
the simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be readable just find on
a simh KS10.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>> On Behalf
Of Robert Armstrong
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying through
clustering --> tenvax rtc
There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes to disk
container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length record files for its
container. Each file record is one tape record. Not simh compatible, although I could
write a program to convert to tap format.
Bob
10:01 p.m.
Why would that matter? However Glen?s program manages to do it, it is the only thing that
should care about that detail since it will be writing the RMS file and then reading it
when outputting to the physical tape.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf Of Paul
Koning
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 1:00 PM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying through
clustering --> tenvax rtc
How does RMS format encode tape marks?
paul
On Nov 19, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at
infocomm.com<mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>> wrote:
You could use Glen Everhardt?s program to read the physical tape and store it locally in
RMS format. Then you could move the RMS file across your cluster environment (or access
it directly) on a sim VAX to write to a simh simulated tape drive. The file attached to
the simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be readable just find on
a simh KS10.
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>> On Behalf
Of Robert Armstrong
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE<mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying through
clustering --> tenvax rtc
There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes to disk
container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length record files for its
container. Each file record is one tape record. Not simh compatible, although I could
write a program to convert to tap format.
Bob
10:16 p.m.
? I haven't looked, but I'd guess that it does the same thing simh does
- zero length records.
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:59 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
How does RMS format encode tape marks?
paul
On Nov 19, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Mark Pizzolato -
Info Comm
<Mark at infocomm.com <mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>> wrote:
You could use Glen Everhardt?s program to read the physical tape and
store it locally in RMS format.? Then you could move the RMS file
across your cluster environment (or access it directly) on a sim VAX
to write to a simh simulated tape drive.? The file attached to the
simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be
readable just find on a simh KS10.
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE><owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE
<mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>>*On Behalf Of*Robert Armstrong
*Sent:*Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
*To:*hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
*Subject:*Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS
copying through clustering --> tenvax rtc
? There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps
magtapes to disk container files and back again, but it uses RMS
variable length record files for its container.? Each file record is
one tape record.? Not simh compatible, although I could write a
program to convert to tap format.
Bob
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Hecnet-list mailing list
Hecnet-list at lists.sonic.net
https://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/hecnet-list
10:27 p.m.
My mistake, I thought the comment was about standard VMS tape copying programs.
paul
On Nov 19, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Robert Armstrong <bob
at jfcl.com> wrote:
I haven't looked, but I'd guess that it does the same thing simh does - zero
length records.
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:59 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
> How does RMS format encode tape marks?
>
> paul
>
>> On Nov 19, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm <Mark at infocomm.com
<mailto:Mark at infocomm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> You could use Glen Everhardt?s program to read the physical tape and store it
locally in RMS format. Then you could move the RMS file across your cluster environment
(or access it directly) on a sim VAX to write to a simh simulated tape drive. The file
attached to the simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be readable
just find on a simh KS10.
>>
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
<owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE>> On Behalf
Of Robert Armstrong
>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
>> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE <mailto:hecnet at Update.UU.SE>
>> Subject: Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS copying
through clustering --> tenvax rtc
>>
>> There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes to
disk container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length record files for its
container. Each file record is one tape record. Not simh compatible, although I could
write a program to convert to tap format.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Hecnet-list at lists.sonic.net <mailto:Hecnet-list at lists.sonic.net>
> https://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/hecnet-list
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10:01 p.m.
? Now that is a clever hack - hadn't considered doing that. Thanks!
Bob
On 11/19/21 12:56 PM, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
You could use Glen Everhardt?s program to read the physical tape and
store it locally in RMS format.? Then you could move the RMS file
across your cluster environment (or access it directly) on a sim VAX
to write to a simh simulated tape drive.? The file attached to the
simh VAX simulated tape drive will be in simh format and will be
readable just find on a simh KS10.
*From:*owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> *On
Behalf Of *Robert Armstrong
*Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:53 PM
*To:* hecnet at Update.UU.SE
*Subject:* Re: [HECnet] VMS progtram for real tape -> TAP --> VMS
copying through clustering --> tenvax rtc
? There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen Everhardt that dumps magtapes
to disk container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable
length record files for its container.? Each file record is one tape
record.? Not simh compatible, although I could write a program to
convert to tap format.
Bob
20 Nov
20 Nov
12:17 a.m.
On 2021-11-19 21:52, Robert Armstrong wrote:
? There's also a VMSTPCE program by Glen
Everhardt that dumps magtapes
to disk container files and back again, but it uses RMS variable length
record files for its container.? Each file record is one tape record.
Not simh compatible, although I could write a program to convert to tap
format.
Actually, that is the same as the plain tpc file format used by e11 and
simh, if you can just get the file image across without any change at
all, and have the record length information also preserved.
If this was RSX, I could certainly help in more ways, but my VMS-fu is
very rusty.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
1:57 a.m.
Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se>
If this was RSX, I could certainly help in more ways, but my VMS-fu is
very rusty.
Thanks, but Mark's VMSTPCE hack works perfectly. I read one tape to a disk file on
a real VAX with a real tape drive, then moved that file to a simulated VAX and wrote it
back to a simulated tape drive. Then I moved the TAP file to simh TOPS10 and tried
reading it. Works great. A bit tedious, but it does the job.
Bob
8:03 a.m.
Thanks, but Mark's VMSTPCE hack works
perfectly. I read one tape to a disk file on a real VAX with a real tape drive, then
moved that file to a simulated VAX and wrote it back to a simulated tape drive. Then I
moved the TAP file to simh TOPS10 and tried reading it. Works great. A bit tedious, but
it does the job.
Bob
If you can hook the real tape drive to a Linux box you may want to check the
'tapedd' utility that comes with KLH10 as it could read physical tapes and
output several virtual tape image formats.
See here: https://github.com/PDP-10/klh10/blob/master/doc/vtape.txt
HTH,
G.
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11 comments
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participants (6)
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bob＠jfcl.com -
bqt＠softjar.se -
gerry77＠mail.com -
Mark＠infocomm.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
R.Voorhorst＠swabhawat.com