On 2013-04-08 18:13, Clem Cole wrote: I'm scratching very stale memory bits here, but Ultrix for the Vax/750 circa 1982/83 might have had a MOP server that did not need a full DECnet install. We did not run DEC-Net at one of my jobs because we had TCP/IP which did everything DECNet could do and worked across vendors. But I thought had a couple of LAT devices to support some dial-up modems and a funky DEC printer that after it booted, spoke TCP fine, but used MOP to boot. I was not involved with configuration or maintaining any of it, so none of the details ever stuck and lend together in my mind. But I would think you look at Ultrix around that time you might find something. Ultrix definitely got a mop server at some point. If it was around in 1982/83 is something I can't comment much on, however... The flag day for TCP/IP was 1 Jan 1983, so I wouldn't expect you were running much TCP/IP before that point. (Yes, I know experiments and development was going on, but the number of implementations were few, still had issues, and was very much work still in progress.) NCP maybe? I know we had a 3Com terminal server that was a piece of work, but we ran the UUCP link of the Vax for a long time and the modems I thought were on a LAT. I just don't remember. My memories of LAT were that it was it's own protocol in the ethernet sense (i.e. had it's own packet type IIRC I want to say 6003) which was different from what DECnet used. It was a very low overhead protocol, very MIT Chaos-Net like, and much more efficient for terminals and other low speed devices than TCP. Correct. LAT is a protocol on ethernet. 0x6004 in fact. 0x6003 is actually DECnet. LAT is rather efficient, but it don't have any routing capability. Johnny Clem On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com <mailto:bob at jfcl.com>> wrote: Yeah, but most (actually, "all" I think) of the DECservers required MOP to download them. How did you do that without DECnet? Or was it just an unwritten catch-22 that you had to have a DECnet node somewhere to boot up your terminal server, even if it wasn't the node you actually wanted to connect to ? Bob -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol