On 2013-02-13 17:58, Bill Pechter wrote: On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com <mailto:clemc at ccc.com>> wrote: On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se <mailto:bqt at softjar.se>> wrote: Well, the 11/70 easily outlived the 11/44, in that 11/70 machines were still sold after the 11/44 was terminated, as far as I know. Interesting data. I'm a little surprised to hear it because DEC was clearly trying to get the traditional 11/70 customer to move to the VAX line in those days. I wonder if the 70 was used in some commercial settings where they wanted a real duplicate. Unlike the Nova/Esclipe the VAX had a "compatibility mode" but it was a tad impure. The OS was different and binaries did not work with some assistance. Other than running Dungeon and few other games, I never knew a customer that used compatibility mode in production - it was a great sales tools, but once folks got their VAX they tended to do a "full port" of the code. So swapping a VAX besides costing more, meant some systems/SW work on the customers part. That was not true of the 11/44. I remember buying an 11/44 for use where we did not need (could not afford an VAX for that use) but wanted the larger address space over the 40 class machines. We had a very large 11/70 and were also buying Vaxen at the time, That particular machine was the last 11 I ever personally was part of the purchase and I moved on to other things, so I sort of stopped watching the progress of the PDP11 line. I know the QBUS gave the 11 some amount of resurgence, although by then most of us were using Vaxen or 68K based UNIX boxes. Thanks for the information. Clem I thought the 11/70 couldn't be sold past about 1984 or 85. Some FCC Regulations on emissions blocked new ones. They didn't want to reengineer and retrofit them. As far as I remember and understand, that was the case for the original 11/70. And I understood it that the DEC DATASYSTEM 570 (ie, the 11//0 in a corporate cabinet) was done to solve the FCC issues. They pulled back all the ones they could from the field and regional offices (replacing some with the rare 11/74 KB11Cm boxes) so they could sell refurbs to AT&T (who purchased a ton for COSMOS and other network functions). I worked at DEC in 1986, and we had at least four 11/70 machines (all corporate cabinets) running at that point in the office. I know and heard of lots of other 11/70 machines out in the field way later than that too. I think it was something like 911 in Los Angeles who ran on a couple of 11/70 into 2000 or beyond, for example. I had the fun of troubleshooting an 11/74 single cpu and parts were really rare. I bet. I wish I had one. I've seen the pictures of CASTOR, with all four CPUs, but the whereabouts of that machine now is unknown. It was dismantled in 2000 or 2001, if I remember right. I seem to remember 11/44's being sold until the 11/84 came out. A google search said it was in '88, two years after I left DEC... The 11/84 came out way earlier. The technical manual for it that I have is dated 1985. (See http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/1184/) I can believe that the 11/84 made the 11/44 obsolete, however. They fulfill the same niche, with the 11/84 being faster, smaller and probably cheaper. I'm pretty sure the 11/70 may have outlived the 11/44 on used and refurb boxes, only. That might be. Funny thing. I just read a little in the 11/44 Technical Manual, and it says it is meant for (among other things), TRAX, and refers to TRAX V2.0. That sounds like it must have been a product for more than a week, or else they released V2 super fast. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol