17 Dec
2017
17 Dec
'17
9:12 p.m.
Hi there, everybody! I'm a vintage computer collector in southern California, USA, and
I'm interested in joining HECnet. I thought I'd introduce myself and then ask some
questions on the mailing list before I ask to join the network.
One of my favorite computers in my collection is a VAX-11/730 system with an R80, RL02,
TU81 and DECwriter III. It has an ethernet card, and it came with OpenVMS 7.3 on the R80
and VMS 5.3 on an RL02 pack. I don't seem to have a single good TU58 tape, even after
repairing the capstan rollers in the drives, but I can boot up the computer via tu58em.
I've shared the boot-optimized console tape image I put together, as well as an image
I created of the CRDPACK RL02 pack that came with the system:
https://github.com/NF6X/VAX-11-730-Console-v57
It's been a couple years since I fired up that system, but I recently had another
burst of interest and began setting up some VAX emulations in simh. I have a simulated
VAX-11/785 running in simh on a BeagleBone Green (a little embedded computer board,
similar to the Raspberry Pi). I plan to leave it running as a full-time VMS presence at
home, so it can be up on HECnet all the time. It would be a natural host for any bridging
or routing I need to do, and I plan to use it as my main bridge between my modern
computers and anything I have speaking DECnet. I have TCP/IP set up on it so I can FTP
files on and off of it from my modern systems. The 11/730 won't be powered up very
often, and probably mostly during winter!
I have plans to restore a heap of parts that I have into a working PDP-11/44 eventually,
and I suppose it should be able to run RSX-11 and also visit HECnet?
I expect that I'll probably get more DECnet-capable hardware in the future. I'd
like to get a PDP-11/73 someday, and I'm curious about those little QBUS MicroVAXen.
Maybe I should add a VAXstation to the mix, too?
So now it's time for me to figure out how to join HECnet. I gather that my best
options would be to either use the bridge program, or to set up my VAX-11/785 emulation to
bridge things somehow.
If I use the bridge program running on a Linux box, can I configure it to only bridge
traffic to/from the rest of HECnet? I don't want the traffic between my local DECnet
nodes to leave the house. If the bridge program forwards all DECnet packets that it sees,
then maybe I should learn how to set up my emulated VAX-11/785 as a router instead?
And now for the really tough question: Once I add my systems to HECnet, what can I *do*?
I'd like to join HECnet just because it's there, but it would be swell if
there's more fun stuff to do.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
17 Dec
17 Dec
9:23 p.m.
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Hi there, everybody! I'm a vintage computer
collector in southern California,
USA, and I'm interested in joining HECnet. I thought I'd introduce myself and
then ask some questions on the mailing list before I ask to join the network.
[...]
So now it's time for me to figure out how to join HECnet. I gather that my best
options would be to either use the bridge program, or to set up my VAX-
11/785 emulation to bridge things somehow.
If I use the bridge program running on a Linux box, can I configure it to only
bridge traffic to/from the rest of HECnet? I don't want the traffic between my
local DECnet nodes to leave the house. If the bridge program forwards all
DECnet packets that it sees, then maybe I should learn how to set up my
emulated VAX-11/785 as a router instead?
The router approach would seem to make most sense to me. You could arrange
a point to point link with someone and use a simulated DMR/DMC for connectivity,
or you could dedicate a simulated DEUNA/DELUA without any separate bridge
involved on your end with UDP as the transport. See HELP XU ATTACH.
- Mark
9:43 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 12:23, Mark Pizzolato <Mark at
infocomm.com> wrote:
The router approach would seem to make most sense to me. You could arrange
a point to point link with someone and use a simulated DMR/DMC for connectivity,
or you could dedicate a simulated DEUNA/DELUA without any separate bridge
involved on your end with UDP as the transport. See HELP XU ATTACH.
I don't know what DMR/DMC are yet.
Can the UDP bridge work if I don't have a public static IP, and my simh instance
can't receive connections from the outside world? My Internet connectivity at home is
via a cellular hotspot modem, and everything at home is firewalled.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
10 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 12:43, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at
nf6x.net> wrote:
I don't know what DMR/DMC are yet.
Aha, I see DMC in simh now. I gather that with either DMC or UDP bridging of XU, at least
one end of the link needs to be able to expose a port on the public Internet?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
10:07 p.m.
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Yes. With DMC, you can also use TCP as the transport, but as you say one end of the link
needs to be able to expose a port. Additionally, it might at least be good to know the
public address of the other end of the link so that arbitrary connections from anywhere by
malicious parties don't get into the fray.
On Dec 17,
2017, at 12:43, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I don't know what DMR/DMC are yet.
Aha, I see DMC in simh now. I gather that with either DMC or UDP bridging of
XU, at least one end of the link needs to be able to expose a port on the public
Internet? 
10:03 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 21:43, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Special interfaces that communicate over a sort of serial line. Probably
not what you are looking for here.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 12:23, Mark Pizzolato
<Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
The router approach would seem to make most sense to me. You could arrange
a point to point link with someone and use a simulated DMR/DMC for connectivity,
or you could dedicate a simulated DEUNA/DELUA without any separate bridge
involved on your end with UDP as the transport. See HELP XU ATTACH.
I don't know what DMR/DMC are yet. Can the UDP bridge work if I don't have a public
static IP, and my simh instance can't receive connections from the outside world? My
Internet connectivity at home is via a cellular hotspot modem, and everything at home is
firewalled.
Then the bridge in general is probably not going to make you happy either.
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP
connection to the outside is your best option.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
10:08 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at softjar.se> wrote:
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP connection to the
outside is your best option.
Is anyone still doing Multinet bridging these days? PDXVAX is capable, as I used to have
a link to Robert Armstrong (at least I think that?s who). I haven?t touched that in well
over a decade, so would have to figure out how to configure it.
Zane
10:14 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 22:08, Zane Healy wrote:
I have 10 or so Multinet links to MIM::
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP connection to the
outside is your best option.
Is anyone still doing Multinet bridging these days? PDXVAX is capable, as I used to have
a link to Robert Armstrong (at least I think that?s who). I haven?t touched that in well
over a decade, so would have to figure out how to configure it.
10:17 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:14 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2017-12-17 22:08, Zane Healy wrote:
I have 10 or so Multinet links to MIM::
I was thinking of a secondary link to someone else for redundancy, like I used to have,
for when there are problems with the bridge link.
Zane
On Dec
17, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP connection to the
outside is your best option.
Is anyone still doing Multinet bridging these days?
PDXVAX is capable, as I used to have a link to Robert Armstrong (at least I think that?s
who). I haven?t touched that in well over a decade, so would have to figure out how to
configure it.
10:54 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 22:17, Zane Healy wrote:
That is also a good thing, yes. I have a link to Robert as well, but he
seems to be down a lot of the time.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:14 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
On 2017-12-17 22:08, Zane Healy wrote:
I have 10 or so Multinet links to MIM::
I was thinking of a secondary link to someone else for redundancy, like I used to have,
for when there are problems with the bridge link. On Dec
17, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP connection to the
outside is your best option.
Is anyone still doing Multinet bridging these days?
PDXVAX is capable, as I used to have a link to Robert Armstrong (at least I think that?s
who). I haven?t touched that in well over a decade, so would have to figure out how to
configure it. 
11:36 p.m.
I have a link to Robert as well, but he seems to be
down a lot of the
time.
Sorry - occasionally I shut down the Ubuntu box that runs the simh
emulation for LEGATO and then I forget to start it back up again. If you
notice that it's down you can always remind me.
LEGATO is booting now; should be up in a minute.
Bob
11:38 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 23:36, Robert Armstrong wrote:
Hehe. Noticed it coming up and realized you probably read the message.
I'm always assuming you have it down for some good reason, and so I
don't ping.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I have a link to Robert as well, but he seems to
be down a lot of the
time.
Sorry - occasionally I shut down the Ubuntu box that runs the simh
emulation for LEGATO and then I forget to start it back up again. If you
notice that it's down you can always remind me.
LEGATO is booting now; should be up in a minute.
11:41 p.m.
I'm always assuming you have it down for some good
reason, and so I don't
ping.
Well, the Linux server probably got shutdown for a good reason. It runs
24x7 unless I have some need to turn it off, but the simh simulation doesn't
start automatically so I have to remember to crank that up whenever I do.
Bob
10:16 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 22:08, Zane Healy wrote:
By the way, Zane, if you are mostly up and running now, and are willing
to accept more connections, you might be a better choice than me for
people over in the US...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
I would definitely say that using a Multinet on VMS, with active TCP connection to the
outside is your best option.
Is anyone still doing Multinet bridging these days? PDXVAX is capable, as I used to have
a link to Robert Armstrong (at least I think that?s who). I haven?t touched that in well
over a decade, so would have to figure out how to configure it.
10:26 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at softjar.se> wrote:
By the way, Zane, if you are mostly up and running now, and are willing to accept more
connections, you might be a better choice than me for people over in the US...
Johnny
Realistically outside of someone with a Datacenter, I?m probably one of the better choices
at the moment, as I?m on a 50Mbit commercial FIOS line. I just need to figure out how to
configure Multinet, since I don?t think I have any notes from when I set it up (doing a
quick check that would have been 2005).
Zane
10:37 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at
avanthar.com> wrote:
Okay, I just took a look. Am I correct that configuring Multinet is as simple as running
MULTINET CONFIGURE/DECNET?
Zane
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
By the way, Zane, if you are mostly up and running now, and are willing to accept more
connections, you might be a better choice than me for people over in the US...
Johnny
Realistically outside of someone with a Datacenter, I?m probably one of the better
choices at the moment, as I?m on a 50Mbit commercial FIOS line. I just need to figure out
how to configure Multinet, since I don?t think I have any notes from when I set it up
(doing a quick check that would have been 2005). 
10:48 p.m.
I'll just throw my 2 pennies in too.
I have Multinet up and running here for the connection to MIM.
So I made a config file (for me is
DUA0:[MULTINET.GVAX.MULTINET]DECNET-CIRCUITS.COM) with:
??? MULTINET CONFIGURE/DECNET
but then edited the file to make it TCP on my assigned port like so:
??? $ multinet set/decnet/remote=130.238.19.212 /device=tcpa0:/connect
/tcp=connect /port=7711
My assigned port is 7711 and MIM is at 130.238.19.212. Obviously edit to
taste, for your setup.
I only have the decnet-over-ip setup on the routing node, GVAX.
My other node GAXP has Multinet but no decnet-over-ip, and is an edge node.
And welcome to Hecnet ...
10:19 p.m.
I don't know much about Multinet yet, but I've acquired a hobbyist license and
downloaded the installation zip file. Argh, another license to renew every year! :) For
the moment, I have my VAX-11/785 emulation set up with the standard TCP/IP support that
came with OpenVMS 7.3 so that I can FTP files on and off the system.
My home internet connection is really spotty, since I connect via cellular hotspot and
I'm in a rural fringe area. So, it's up and down all the time. I understand that
will make my HECnet connectivity just as spotty as my internet connectivity, but will the
frequent bouncing up and down cause headaches for whatever peer I end up using for my
HECnet connection? I can live with my own connectivity being spotty, but I don't want
to cause headaches for others beyond spotty accessibility of whatever silly services I
cook up.
Mere amusement at the fact that the network exists is enough motivation for me to
participate. I'll see if I can come up with a silly justification for my nodes to
exist on the network, too. I'll need to learn about what the conventions are for
public servers on DECnet networks. Most of my background is in the UNIX and TCP/IP world,
and I was not very interested in VMS or DECnet back in the day (though I loved VAXen,
generally running BSD). Now that I've developed a bunch of curiosity about VMS,
DECnet, and various other DEC OSes, I have a lot of catching up to do.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
10:25 p.m.
I just had a potentially dangerous thought. I'm already considering learning about
Amazon cloud server stuff and migrating my Wordpress blog from the web service it
presently lives on to my own AWS instance, so I can have more control over it.
Is anybody doing any DECnet/HECnet related stuff on AWS yet? I wonder if it might be hard
to spin up something like a HECnet portal on an AWS instance without running up big bills?
I'd be willing to burn up to a hundred bucks a year doing something silly like that,
assuming that exposing something like an OpenVMS 7.3 instance to the public internet
isn't a profoundly bad idea.
I think y'all need to talk me away from the edge of the cliff now. I'll leave it
up to you which direction you talk me. :D
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
10:35 p.m.
On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at
nf6x.net> wrote:
I just had a potentially dangerous thought. I'm already considering learning about
Amazon cloud server stuff and migrating my Wordpress blog from the web service it
presently lives on to my own AWS instance, so I can have more control over it.
Is anybody doing any DECnet/HECnet related stuff on AWS yet? I wonder if it might be hard
to spin up something like a HECnet portal on an AWS instance without running up big bills?
I'd be willing to burn up to a hundred bucks a year doing something silly like that,
assuming that exposing something like an OpenVMS 7.3 instance to the public internet
isn't a profoundly bad idea.
I think y'all need to talk me away from the edge of the cliff now. I'll leave it
up to you which direction you talk me. :D
That could be interesting, but it could also be very expensive. Isn?t some of the AWS
pricing based on how much CPU time you use? The VM I have running on ESXI is using about
57% of the host CPU. It doesn?t matter to me, but in a situation where you have to pay
for the resources you use, I would think this could be a problem.
BTW, as I recently posted on the SIMH mailing list, I had setup that VM to throttle, and
forgotten about it. When I moved from playing with PDP-11 emulation, to actively running
Simh/VAX 24/7, it caused major issues, and a Raspberry Pi was performing better. Since I
changed that, it?s my fastest VAX. :-)
Zane
11:53 p.m.
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
I'm not sure how AWS keeps track of CPU usage, but a simh VAX instance
running VMS with idling enabled will normally consume very little host system
resources unless it is really doing something. When the network is otherwise
idle, it will wake up briefly once every 10ms to implement a simulated clock
tick and very quickly go back to sleep.
- Mark
On Dec 17,
2017, at 1:25 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I just had a potentially dangerous thought. I'm already considering learning
about Amazon cloud server stuff and migrating my Wordpress blog from the
web service it presently lives on to my own AWS instance, so I can have more
control over it.
Is anybody doing any DECnet/HECnet related stuff on AWS yet? I wonder if it
might be hard to spin up something like a HECnet portal on an AWS instance
without running up big bills? I'd be willing to burn up to a hundred bucks a
year doing something silly like that, assuming that exposing something like an
OpenVMS 7.3 instance to the public internet isn't a profoundly bad idea.
I think y'all need to talk me away from the edge of the cliff now. I'll leave it
up to you which direction you talk me. :D
That could be interesting, but it could also be very expensive. Isn't some of
the AWS pricing based on how much CPU time you use? The VM I have
running on ESXI is using about 57% of the host CPU. It doesn't matter to me,
but in a situation where you have to pay for the resources you use, I would
think this could be a problem.
BTW, as I recently posted on the SIMH mailing list, I had setup that VM to
throttle, and forgotten about it. When I moved from playing with PDP-11
emulation, to actively running Simh/VAX 24/7, it caused major issues, and a
Raspberry Pi was performing better. Since I changed that, it's my fastest VAX.
:-) 
18 Dec
18 Dec
2:24 p.m.
They have recently introduced per second billing. I don't know how much you
need to use in a second to get billed though.
Might be interesting to run simh on a t2.nano for a month and see what it
costs.
On Dec 17, 2017 18:03, "Mark Pizzolato" <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Zane Healy
wrote:
some
of
> On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Mark J. Blair
<nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
>
> I just had a potentially dangerous thought. I'm already considering
learning
about Amazon cloud server stuff and migrating my
Wordpress blog from the
web service it presently lives on to my own AWS instance, so I can have
more
control over it.
>
> Is anybody doing any DECnet/HECnet related stuff on AWS yet? I wonder
if it
> might be hard to spin up something like a
HECnet portal on an AWS
instance
> without running up big bills? I'd be
willing to burn up to a hundred
bucks a
> year doing something silly like that,
assuming that exposing something
like an
> OpenVMS 7.3 instance to the public internet
isn't a profoundly bad
idea.
>
> I think y'all need to talk me away from the edge of the cliff now.
I'll leave it
up to you
which direction you talk me. :D
That could be interesting, but it could also be very expensive. Isn't the AWS pricing based on how much CPU time you
use? The VM I have
running on ESXI is using about 57% of the host CPU. It doesn't matter
to me,
but in a situation where you have to pay for the
resources you use, I
would
think this could be a problem.
BTW, as I recently posted on the SIMH mailing list, I had setup that VM
to
throttle, and forgotten about it. When I moved
from playing with PDP-11
emulation, to actively running Simh/VAX 24/7, it caused major issues,
and a
Raspberry Pi was performing better. Since I
changed that, it's my
fastest VAX.
:-)
I'm not sure how AWS keeps track of CPU usage, but a simh VAX instance
running VMS with idling enabled will normally consume very little host
system
resources unless it is really doing something. When the network is
otherwise
idle, it will wake up briefly once every 10ms to implement a simulated
clock
tick and very quickly go back to sleep.
- Mark
2:26 p.m.
So it looks like running a t2.nano full out will cost $4.75/month.
That's reasonable.
On Dec 18, 2017 08:24, "Brian Hechinger" <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
They have recently introduced per second billing. I
don't know how much
you need to use in a second to get billed though.
Might be interesting to run simh on a t2.nano for a month and see what it
costs.
On Dec 17, 2017 18:03, "Mark Pizzolato" <Mark at infocomm.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
> > > On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just had a potentially dangerous thought. I'm already considering
> learning
> > about Amazon cloud server stuff and migrating my Wordpress blog from the
> > web service it presently lives on to my own AWS instance, so I can have
> more
> > control over it.
> > >
> > > Is anybody doing any DECnet/HECnet related stuff on AWS yet? I wonder
> if it
> > > might be hard to spin up something like a HECnet portal on an AWS
> instance
> > > without running up big bills? I'd be willing to burn up to a hundred
> bucks a
> > > year doing something silly like that, assuming that exposing
> something like an
> > > OpenVMS 7.3 instance to the public internet isn't a profoundly bad
> idea.
> > >
> > > I think y'all need to talk me away from the edge of the cliff now.
> I'll leave it
> > > up to you which direction you talk me. :D
> >
> > That could be interesting, but it could also be very expensive. Isn't
> some of
> > the AWS pricing based on how much CPU time you use? The VM I have
> > running on ESXI is using about 57% of the host CPU. It doesn't matter
> to me,
> > but in a situation where you have to pay for the resources you use, I
> would
> > think this could be a problem.
> >
> > BTW, as I recently posted on the SIMH mailing list, I had setup that VM
> to
> > throttle, and forgotten about it. When I moved from playing with PDP-11
> > emulation, to actively running Simh/VAX 24/7, it caused major issues,
> and a
> > Raspberry Pi was performing better. Since I changed that, it's my
> fastest VAX.
> > :-)
>
> I'm not sure how AWS keeps track of CPU usage, but a simh VAX instance
> running VMS with idling enabled will normally consume very little host
> system
> resources unless it is really doing something. When the network is
> otherwise
> idle, it will wake up briefly once every 10ms to implement a simulated
> clock
> tick and very quickly go back to sleep.
>
> - Mark
>
>
31 Dec
31 Dec
4:09 a.m.
On 2017-12-17 22:19, Mark J. Blair wrote:
I don't know much about Multinet yet, but I've
acquired a hobbyist license and downloaded the installation zip file. Argh, another
license to renew every year! :) For the moment, I have my VAX-11/785 emulation set up with
the standard TCP/IP support that came with OpenVMS 7.3 so that I can FTP files on and off
the system.
Should be good enough. Not much to do about the license renewal...
My home internet connection is really spotty, since I
connect via cellular hotspot and I'm in a rural fringe area. So, it's up and down
all the time. I understand that will make my HECnet connectivity just as spotty as my
internet connectivity, but will the frequent bouncing up and down cause headaches for
whatever peer I end up using for my HECnet connection? I can live with my own connectivity
being spotty, but I don't want to cause headaches for others beyond spotty
accessibility of whatever silly services I cook up.
No. Should be good. Your connection will be spotty, but it won't affect
anyone else.
Mere amusement at the fact that the network exists is
enough motivation for me to participate. I'll see if I can come up with a silly
justification for my nodes to exist on the network, too. I'll need to learn about what
the conventions are for public servers on DECnet networks. Most of my background is in the
UNIX and TCP/IP world, and I was not very interested in VMS or DECnet back in the day
(though I loved VAXen, generally running BSD). Now that I've developed a bunch of
curiosity about VMS, DECnet, and various other DEC OSes, I have a lot of catching up to
do.
Saw a bunch of responses to this. Good luck, and have fun.
Now you just need to find a good peer to connect to...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
17 Dec
17 Dec
9:39 p.m.
I?m not brave enough to own a VAX-11/730. :-) I had a chance about 20 years ago and
passed on that.
A PDP-11/44 is more than capable of being on HECnet with either RSTS/E, RSX-11M, or
RSX-11M+. Keep in mind that the /44 requires significant electricity, in fact that?s one
of the reasons it?s been about 17 years since mine was last powered on. A /73 is far more
practical. I have a /23+ in a BA23, and a /73 in a BA123. Both use removable SCSI hard
drives (I did that upgrade back when the trays were easy to obtain).
For a long time I?ve resisted the urge to resort to emulation (except for the PDP-10). In
the last few months I?ve gotten VMS 7.3 running on my VMware server, and a Raspberry Pi 2.
They?re clustered with my Compaq XP1000/667 which runs VMS 8.3. Based on the results
I?ve had with them, I?m convinced that for the VAX, SIMH is the way to go. Currently my
DECnet router is a VAXstation 4000/60 running VAX/VMS 5.5-2, and I?m considering moving it
over to SIMH. I should add that I?ve been using SIMH for PDP-11 emulation for longer than
I?ve owned a PDP-11 (over 20 years), and E11 for nearly that long.
I?m back on HECnet for the first time since 2008, but honestly I?m not sure what all is
available these days. I used to have a webpage that would show what systems were
currently active, and what they had available to do on them. Actually the software is
still there, now that I?m back on HECnet, but my firewall isn?t allowing access to it from
the internet, so I?ve included what is currently showing up. I can only vouch for the
accuracy of the data in Area 60, since the notes on the various systems haven?t been
updated in nearly a decade. Something not mentioned is that I have games on PDXVAX.
Zane
Node State Active Delay Circuit Next node
Links
1.13 (MIM) QNA-1 59.60 (R29GWA)
E11 Simulation, RSX-11M+ V4.6
Guest Login
File area MIM::US:[DECNET] (notes on areas and nodenames)
1.15 (PONDUS) reachable 0 4 IP-0-1 1.15 (PONDUS)
PDP-11/93, RSX-11M-PLUS
1.21 (JOCKE) reachable 0 4 IP-0-3 1.21 (JOCKE)
1.152 reachable UNA-0 1.152 ()
1.559 (IMPVAX) reachable 0 4 IP-0-9 1.559 (IMPVAX)
1.602 (HUGIN) reachable 0 4 IP-0-6 1.602 (HUGIN)
1.731 (GVAX) reachable IP-0-4 1.731 (GVAX)
7.61 (BITXOO) reachable UNA-0 7.61 (BITXOO)
8.400 (GORVAX) reachable UNA-0 8.400 (GORVAX)
14.4 (SKHNGW) reachable UNA-0 14.4 (SKHNGW)
28.41 (RULLFS) reachable UNA-0 28.41 (RULLFS)
30.1 (FRODO) reachable IP-0-10 30.1 (FRODO)
33.14 (FRUGAL) reachable IP-0-8 33.14 (FRUGAL)
39.1 (MASON) reachable IP-0-5 39.1 (MASON)
42.1022 (HUB) reachable UNA-0 42.1022 (HUB)
44.1023 (A44RTR) reachable UNA-0 44.1023 (A44RTR)
59.10 (SOL) reachable QNA-1 59.10 (SOL)
Systems Concepts SC40M, TOPS-20
59.11 (DIMMA) reachable UNA-0 59.11 (DIMMA)
59.58 (STUPI) 59.11 (DIMMA)
59.60 (R29GWA) reachable QNA-1 59.60 (R29GWA)
60.652 (MONK) reachable 1 2 SVA-0 60.652 (MONK)
XP1000/667, OpenVMS 8.3
DEC Notes Conference MONK::HOBBYIST_DECNET
DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP-10
DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP11
DEC Notes Conference MONK::TEST
DEC Notes Conference MONK::VMS
60.653 (HAM) reachable SVA-0 60.653 (HAM)
60.661 (LNGTOM) reachable SVA-0 60.661 (LNGTOM)
60.664 (PDXVAX) reachable UNA-0 60.664 (PDXVAX)
VAXstation 4000/60, VAX/VMS 5.5-2, Area Router
Guest Login
DEC Notes Client installed
Multinet Bridge to area 2
62.637 (CTAKAH) reachable IP-0-7 62.637 (CTAKAH)
Emulated PDP-11, RSX
On Dec 17, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x
at nf6x.net> wrote:
Hi there, everybody! I'm a vintage computer collector in southern California, USA,
and I'm interested in joining HECnet. I thought I'd introduce myself and then ask
some questions on the mailing list before I ask to join the network.
One of my favorite computers in my collection is a VAX-11/730 system with an R80, RL02,
TU81 and DECwriter III. It has an ethernet card, and it came with OpenVMS 7.3 on the R80
and VMS 5.3 on an RL02 pack. I don't seem to have a single good TU58 tape, even after
repairing the capstan rollers in the drives, but I can boot up the computer via tu58em.
I've shared the boot-optimized console tape image I put together, as well as an image
I created of the CRDPACK RL02 pack that came with the system:
https://github.com/NF6X/VAX-11-730-Console-v57
It's been a couple years since I fired up that system, but I recently had another
burst of interest and began setting up some VAX emulations in simh. I have a simulated
VAX-11/785 running in simh on a BeagleBone Green (a little embedded computer board,
similar to the Raspberry Pi). I plan to leave it running as a full-time VMS presence at
home, so it can be up on HECnet all the time. It would be a natural host for any bridging
or routing I need to do, and I plan to use it as my main bridge between my modern
computers and anything I have speaking DECnet. I have TCP/IP set up on it so I can FTP
files on and off of it from my modern systems. The 11/730 won't be powered up very
often, and probably mostly during winter!
I have plans to restore a heap of parts that I have into a working PDP-11/44 eventually,
and I suppose it should be able to run RSX-11 and also visit HECnet?
I expect that I'll probably get more DECnet-capable hardware in the future. I'd
like to get a PDP-11/73 someday, and I'm curious about those little QBUS MicroVAXen.
Maybe I should add a VAXstation to the mix, too?
So now it's time for me to figure out how to join HECnet. I gather that my best
options would be to either use the bridge program, or to set up my VAX-11/785 emulation to
bridge things somehow.
If I use the bridge program running on a Linux box, can I configure it to only bridge
traffic to/from the rest of HECnet? I don't want the traffic between my local DECnet
nodes to leave the house. If the bridge program forwards all DECnet packets that it sees,
then maybe I should learn how to set up my emulated VAX-11/785 as a router instead?
And now for the really tough question: Once I add my systems to HECnet, what can I *do*?
I'd like to join HECnet just because it's there, but it would be swell if
there's more fun stuff to do.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:57 p.m.
Hi.
First of all, welcome.
On 2017-12-17 21:12, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Hi there, everybody! I'm a vintage computer
collector in southern California, USA, and I'm interested in joining HECnet. I thought
I'd introduce myself and then ask some questions on the mailing list before I ask to
join the network.
One of my favorite computers in my collection is a VAX-11/730 system with an R80, RL02,
TU81 and DECwriter III. It has an ethernet card, and it came with OpenVMS 7.3 on the R80
and VMS 5.3 on an RL02 pack. I don't seem to have a single good TU58 tape, even after
repairing the capstan rollers in the drives, but I can boot up the computer via tu58em.
I've shared the boot-optimized console tape image I put together, as well as an image
I created of the CRDPACK RL02 pack that came with the system:
https://github.com/NF6X/VAX-11-730-Console-v57
Fun. TU58 might be getting a bit old in the tooth now, so maybe not
totally surprising. It was never a very fun device.
It's been a couple years since I fired up that
system, but I recently had another burst of interest and began setting up some VAX
emulations in simh. I have a simulated VAX-11/785 running in simh on a BeagleBone Green (a
little embedded computer board, similar to the Raspberry Pi). I plan to leave it running
as a full-time VMS presence at home, so it can be up on HECnet all the time. It would be a
natural host for any bridging or routing I need to do, and I plan to use it as my main
bridge between my modern computers and anything I have speaking DECnet. I have TCP/IP set
up on it so I can FTP files on and off of it from my modern systems. The 11/730 won't
be powered up very often, and probably mostly during winter!
I have plans to restore a heap of parts that I have into a working PDP-11/44 eventually,
and I suppose it should be able to run RSX-11 and also visit HECnet?
I expect that I'll probably get more DECnet-capable hardware in the future. I'd
like to get a PDP-11/73 someday, and I'm curious about those little QBUS MicroVAXen.
Maybe I should add a VAXstation to the mix, too?
Sound like you plan to be busy.
So now it's time for me to figure out how to join
HECnet. I gather that my best options would be to either use the bridge program, or to set
up my VAX-11/785 emulation to bridge things somehow.
Correct.
If I use the bridge program running on a Linux box,
can I configure it to only bridge traffic to/from the rest of HECnet? I don't want the
traffic between my local DECnet nodes to leave the house. If the bridge program forwards
all DECnet packets that it sees, then maybe I should learn how to set up my emulated
VAX-11/785 as a router instead?
Nope. A bridge will forward all traffic. It has to. DECnet do not
discriminate. The bridge makes it all seem like the same ethernet
segment, and thus, any machine expects to be able to talk directly to
any other machine, so the bridge cannot really act like any kind of
firewall.
For that reason the bridge also does not scale very well, so I prefer if
people hook up using some kind of routing instead. Either Multinet (VMS
or RSX), or using Cisco boxes. Or possibly even Paul Koning's DECnet
router in Python, which can talk both to ethernets, and to machines
running Multinet tunneling.
And now for the really tough question: Once I add my
systems to HECnet, what can I *do*? I'd like to join HECnet just because it's
there, but it would be swell if there's more fun stuff to do.
Well, there isn't that much, per se. You can, of course, do your mail
through HECnet (there is a mail gateway to the rest of the Internet),
and you can use PHONE to talk to others on HECnet. You can put up file
repositories, or download files from others who have made stuff
available. You might hand out guest accounts, or provide any silly
service you can think of. However, expect that not many will make use of
any of it, as most people are mostly just amused by the fact that the
network exist.
Personally, I do a lot of RSX development, and I have machines with both
guest accounts and file repositories. I also from time to time, test RSX
DECnet against other DECnet implementations to check if things work, or
if there are things I need to fix in RSX.
I also have a few automated services, like my nodename database for
HECnet, which is handled by Datatrieve on RSX, and which do have a web
interface for querying. It can also be accessed by other DECnet nodes,
if they have remote Datatrieve set up.
In short, there are a few services, but not much. If you want to do
something, you'll have to come up with the ideas yourself.
One suggestion would be to think if you can come up with some nice way
of getting a network map of HECnet. But this is tricky. There have been
a few attempts in the past, but nothing current. And please don't just
start trying to access all machines, as some will light up as christmas
trees with intrusion alerts if you just try to access files on them or
something.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
10:43 p.m.
For that reason the bridge also does not scale very well, so I prefer if
people
hook up using some kind of routing instead. Either
Multinet (VMS or RSX),
or
using Cisco boxes. Or possibly even Paul Koning's
DECnet router in Python,
which can talk both to ethernets, and to machines running Multinet
tunneling.
10:57 p.m.
On 2017-12-17 22:43, Rob Jarratt wrote:
You may also like to consider the user mode DECnet router that I wrote:
https://github.com/rjarratt/Route20
Nice to know there are more options. Sorry for not knowing and
mentioning this. We should probably collect this information somewhere
useful. I'll try and put something somewhere for the time being... But
I'm lousy at web design. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
For that reason the bridge also does not scale very well, so I prefer if
people
hook up using some kind of routing instead.
Either Multinet (VMS or RSX),
or
using Cisco boxes. Or possibly even Paul
Koning's DECnet router in Python,
which can talk both to ethernets, and to machines running Multinet
tunneling.
11:41 p.m.
http://www.avanthar.com:8080/nodes/ is back online. I think I need to update KNOWN NODES
though. :-)
Below is my datafile that tracks what the different nodes are. If anyone wants some of
this updated, or entries updated, just let me know.
Zane
$ type node.dat
=INFO MONK XP1000/667, OpenVMS 8.3
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::HOBBYIST_DECNET
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP-10
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP11
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::TEST
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::VMS
=INFO PDXVAX VAXstation 4000/60, VAX/VMS 5.5-2, Area Router
=SERVICES PDXVAX Guest Login
=SERVICES PDXVAX DEC Notes Client installed
=SERVICES PDXVAX Multinet Bridge to area 2
#=SERVICES PDXVAX File Area DSA1:[HOBBYISTV1]
=INFO RSTSE PDP-11/73, RSTS/E V10.1
=SERVICES Guest Login
=INFO CAMECA PDP-11/73, RSX-11M V4.2
=INFO SAVAGE VAXstation 3100/20, VAX/VMS 5.5
=INFO LEGATO VAXstation 4000-90A, OpenVMS V7.3, Area Router
=SERVICES LEGATO Guest Login
=INFO CODA VAXstation 4000/90A, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO PETEY VAXstation 4000/90, OpenVMS 7.3-2
=INFO FLUFFY VAXserver 4000/500, OpenVMS 7.3-2
=INFO SPENG SIMH Simulation
=INFO MAGICA PDP-11/70, RSX-11M+ V4.6
=SERVICES Guest Login
=INFO MIM E11 Simulation, RSX-11M+ V4.6
=SERVICES MIM Guest Login
=SERVICES MIM File area MIM::US:[DECNET] (notes on areas and nodenames)
=INFO MAISA VAX-4000/200, OpenVMS V7.2
=SERVICES MAISA Guest Login
=INFO OLLIE MicroVAX 3400, OpenVMS V7.3
=SERVICES OLLIE Guest Login
=INFO VS3K1 VAXserver 3100, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO VSVLC VAXstation 4000/vlc, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO HAWK VAX 4000-600A, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO JYLKM5 VAXserver 3100-M76, OpenVMS 7.3
=INFO VS2K1 VAXserver 2000, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO VS2K2 VAXserver 2000, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO AXPSYS AlphaStation 400 4/233, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO ALPHA AlphaStation 255/233, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO BETA Digital AlphaPC 164 500 MHz, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO A11RTR MicroVAX 3400, OpenVMS V7.2
=INFO AREA27 Cisco Router
=INFO BJARNE DEC PWS, OpenVMS
=INFO PONDUS PDP-11/93, RSX-11M-PLUS
=INFO JOSSE Generic PC, Windows XP
=INFO PAMINA Emulated DECSYSTEM-20 (KLH-10), TOPS-20 V7.0
=INFO BEA DEC Professional 380, P/OS V3.2
=INFO CTAKAH Emulated PDP-11, RSX
=INFO SOL Systems Concepts SC40M, TOPS-20
=INFO GNAT VAXstation 4000/90, VMS
=INFO DUSTY Emulated VAX (SIMH) on Solaris x86, VMS
=INFO CALHAN Emulated PDP-10, TOPS20 V7.0(Panda)
=INFO ARTHUR x86 PC, Debian Linux
=INFO JELTZ x86 PC, Fedora Linux
=INFO MARSHA VAXstation 4000/vlc, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO TRISHA Alpha 3000/300, OpenVMS V7.3-2
=INFO FORD DPW 433au, OpenVMS V7.3-2
=INFO ZARQON MicroVAX 3100/95, OpenVMS 7.3
=SERVICES ZARQON Multinet Bridge to area 2
=INFO FENTIB Sun Ultra 5, Debian Linux
=SERVICES FENTIB Bridge to area 1
$
21 Dec
21 Dec
2:49 a.m.
My systems are always up, 24/7, in Dave McGuire's area 61. Just look up
GLGMSH, ENKIDU, and MARDUK in Johnny's node list. Node number and info are
correct. All three have HECnet access, with GLGMSH and ENKIDU having
Internet and e-mail access as well. I offer guest accounts to responsible
requestors. :)
-Mark
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com> wrote:
http://www.avanthar.com:8080/nodes/ is back online. I
think I need to
update KNOWN NODES though. :-)
Below is my datafile that tracks what the different nodes are. If anyone
wants some of this updated, or entries updated, just let me know.
Zane
$ type node.dat
=INFO MONK XP1000/667, OpenVMS 8.3
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::HOBBYIST_DECNET
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP-10
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::PDP11
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::TEST
=SERVICES MONK DEC Notes Conference MONK::VMS
=INFO PDXVAX VAXstation 4000/60, VAX/VMS 5.5-2, Area Router
=SERVICES PDXVAX Guest Login
=SERVICES PDXVAX DEC Notes Client installed
=SERVICES PDXVAX Multinet Bridge to area 2
#=SERVICES PDXVAX File Area DSA1:[HOBBYISTV1]
=INFO RSTSE PDP-11/73, RSTS/E V10.1
=SERVICES Guest Login
=INFO CAMECA PDP-11/73, RSX-11M V4.2
=INFO SAVAGE VAXstation 3100/20, VAX/VMS 5.5
=INFO LEGATO VAXstation 4000-90A, OpenVMS V7.3, Area Router
=SERVICES LEGATO Guest Login
=INFO CODA VAXstation 4000/90A, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO PETEY VAXstation 4000/90, OpenVMS 7.3-2
=INFO FLUFFY VAXserver 4000/500, OpenVMS 7.3-2
=INFO SPENG SIMH Simulation
=INFO MAGICA PDP-11/70, RSX-11M+ V4.6
=SERVICES Guest Login
=INFO MIM E11 Simulation, RSX-11M+ V4.6
=SERVICES MIM Guest Login
=SERVICES MIM File area MIM::US:[DECNET] (notes on areas and nodenames)
=INFO MAISA VAX-4000/200, OpenVMS V7.2
=SERVICES MAISA Guest Login
=INFO OLLIE MicroVAX 3400, OpenVMS V7.3
=SERVICES OLLIE Guest Login
=INFO VS3K1 VAXserver 3100, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO VSVLC VAXstation 4000/vlc, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO HAWK VAX 4000-600A, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO JYLKM5 VAXserver 3100-M76, OpenVMS 7.3
=INFO VS2K1 VAXserver 2000, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO VS2K2 VAXserver 2000, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO AXPSYS AlphaStation 400 4/233, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO ALPHA AlphaStation 255/233, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO BETA Digital AlphaPC 164 500 MHz, OpenVMS V7.3-1
=INFO A11RTR MicroVAX 3400, OpenVMS V7.2
=INFO AREA27 Cisco Router
=INFO BJARNE DEC PWS, OpenVMS
=INFO PONDUS PDP-11/93, RSX-11M-PLUS
=INFO JOSSE Generic PC, Windows XP
=INFO PAMINA Emulated DECSYSTEM-20 (KLH-10), TOPS-20 V7.0
=INFO BEA DEC Professional 380, P/OS V3.2
=INFO CTAKAH Emulated PDP-11, RSX
=INFO SOL Systems Concepts SC40M, TOPS-20
=INFO GNAT VAXstation 4000/90, VMS
=INFO DUSTY Emulated VAX (SIMH) on Solaris x86, VMS
=INFO CALHAN Emulated PDP-10, TOPS20 V7.0(Panda)
=INFO ARTHUR x86 PC, Debian Linux
=INFO JELTZ x86 PC, Fedora Linux
=INFO MARSHA VAXstation 4000/vlc, OpenVMS V7.3
=INFO TRISHA Alpha 3000/300, OpenVMS V7.3-2
=INFO FORD DPW 433au, OpenVMS V7.3-2
=INFO ZARQON MicroVAX 3100/95, OpenVMS 7.3
=SERVICES ZARQON Multinet Bridge to area 2
=INFO FENTIB Sun Ultra 5, Debian Linux
=SERVICES FENTIB Bridge to area 1
$
6:03 a.m.
All,
I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came with a MINC-11 says
that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does anyone out there happen to have a copy
of it? It would be great to be able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer
files to my 11/83.
Interestingly the documentation also said there was a version of RSX11S with DECnet
for the MINC-11. Building RSX11S with DECnet is something I did many years ago for a
p[roject at work and could probably redo, but the Macro sources to talk to the MINC-11
A/D, D/A, Programable Clock and Digital I/O modules would be nice to have if anyone ever
saw such a thing.
Thanks,
Mark Matlock
Frodo 30.1 PDP-11/83
MV80 30.2 MicroVax 3100-80
RD83 30.6 PDP-11/83
RD73 30.3 PDP-11/73
6:21 a.m.
On Dec 20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock <mark at
matlockfamily.com> wrote:
All,
I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came with a MINC-11 says
that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does anyone out there happen to have a copy
of it? It would be great to be able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer
files to my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand it, it only supported
serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
7:45 a.m.
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a network interface. I used
to own a MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial ports,
A/D and D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled data,
and had no networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to how any
MINC documentation would mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there was some
later version of the system that I'm not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com> wrote:
On Dec 20,
2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock <mark at matlockfamily.com>
wrote:
All,
I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came with a
MINC-11
says that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does anyone out
there happen to have a copy of it? It would be great to be able to connect
my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer files to my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand it,
it only supported serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
2:23 p.m.
DECnet works fine with only serial communication. Including remote booting.
And RSX-11S did not need much hardware resources, so I could easily see that working on a
Minc or an 11/03.
Johnny
Mark Abene <phiber at phiber.com> skrev: (21 december 2017 07:45:02 CET)
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a network
interface. I
used
to own a MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial
ports,
A/D and D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled
data,
and had no networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to how
any
MINC documentation would mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there was
some
later version of the system that I'm not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com>
wrote:
with a
--
Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.
On Dec
20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock <mark at matlockfamily.com>
wrote:
>
> All,
> I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came MINC-11 says that RT-11 had a Phase III
compatible DECnet. Does
anyone out
there happen to have a copy of it? It would be
great to be able to
connect
my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer files to
my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand
it,
> it only supported serial lines, not ethernet.
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>
5:09 p.m.
I didn?t realize the PDT-11/150 was considered a MiniMINC, as I thought it was targeted at
business environments. I have one, but no software for it, and it needs, at a minimum, a
new power switch, as the one it has is broken off. I had a MINC-11 years ago, and sadly
promptly traded it to Jim Willing for an external RX02 pair of drives.
Zane
On Dec 20, 2017, at 10:45 PM, Mark Abene <phiber at
phiber.com> wrote:
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a network interface. I used to own a
MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial ports, A/D and
D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled data, and had no
networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to how any MINC documentation would
mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there was some later version of the system that I'm
not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com
<mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>> wrote:
On Dec 20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock
<mark at matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com>> wrote:
All,
I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came with a MINC-11 says
that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does anyone out there happen to have a copy
of it? It would be great to be able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer
files to my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand it, it only
supported serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
6:55 p.m.
I don't see any reason why one couldn't throw a DEQNA or DELQA in a
MINC-11..
-Dave
On 12/21/2017 01:45 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a
network interface. I
used to own a MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial
ports, A/D and D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled
data, and had no networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to
how any MINC documentation would mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there
was some later version of the system that I'm not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com
<mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>> wrote:
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On Dec 20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock
<mark at matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com>> wrote:
All,
? ? I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came with a MINC-11 says
that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does anyone out there happen to have a copy
of it? It would be great to be able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer
files to my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years.? As I understand
it, it only supported serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
9:32 p.m.
In the MINC-11 chassis, it'd probably work, but of course wouldn't be
supported by the custom RT-11 nor MINC BASIC. :)
The MiniMINC on the other hand has no such expansion capability.
-Mark
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I don't see any reason why one couldn't throw a DEQNA or DELQA in a
MINC-11..
-Dave
On 12/21/2017 01:45 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a
network interface. I
used to own a MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial
ports, A/D and D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled
data, and had no networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to
how any MINC documentation would mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there
was some later version of the system that I'm not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com
<mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>> wrote:
> On Dec 20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock <mark at matlockfamily.com
<mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com>> wrote:
>
> All,
> I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came
with a
MINC-11 says that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does
anyone out there happen to have a copy of it? It would be great to be able
to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer files to my 11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand
it, it only supported serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
9:51 p.m.
I'm sure it'd work. I've put arbitrary Qbus boards in MINC-11 chassis
in the past. Software support is...just software support. B-)
-Dave
On 12/21/2017 03:32 PM, Mark Abene wrote:
In the MINC-11 chassis, it'd probably work, but of
course wouldn't be
supported by the custom RT-11 nor MINC BASIC. :)
The MiniMINC on the other hand has no such expansion capability.
-Mark
On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com
<mailto:mcguire at neurotica.com>> wrote:
? I don't see any reason why one couldn't throw a DEQNA or DELQA in a
MINC-11..
? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 12/21/2017 01:45 AM, Mark Abene wrote:
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Correct, neither the MINC-11 nor MiniMINC had a
network interface. I
used to own a MiniMINC (PDT-11/150) years ago.
It's serial only. The MINC, I believe, was just an 11/03 with serial
ports, A/D and D/A, and GPIB (oh, and dual floppies).
They were both meant for lab work and analyzing and graphing sampled
data, and had no networking capability. Given that, I'm confused as to
how any MINC documentation would mention DECnet and RSX11S, unless there
was some later version of the system that I'm not aware of.
Regards,
-Mark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com
<mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>
<mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com <mailto:healyzh at avanthar.com>>> wrote:
? ? ?> On Dec 20, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock
<mark at
matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com>
<mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com <mailto:mark at matlockfamily.com>>>
wrote:
? ? ?>
? ? ?> All,
? ? ?>? ? I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that
came
with a MINC-11 says that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible
DECnet. Does anyone out there happen to have a copy of it? It would
be great to be able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and
transfer files to my 11/83.
? ? ?I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years.? As I
understand
? ? ?it, it only supported serial lines, not
ethernet.
? ? ?Zane
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
2:20 p.m.
Ethernet support only came in decnet phase iv.
Johnny
Zane Healy <healyzh at avanthar.com> skrev: (21 december 2017 06:21:41 CET)
--
Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.
On Dec 20,
2017, at 9:03 PM, Mark Matlock <mark at matlockfamily.com>
wrote:
All,
I have a question on DECnet for RT-11. Documentation that came
with a MINC-11
says that RT-11 had a Phase III compatible DECnet. Does
anyone out there happen to have a copy of it? It would be great to be
able to connect my MINC-11 as an end-node and transfer files to my
11/83.
I?ve been searching for a copy for nearly 20 years. As I understand
it, it only supported serial lines, not ethernet.
Zane
7:06 p.m.
On 12/21/2017 12:03 AM, Mark Matlock wrote:
Interestingly the documentation also said there
was a version of RSX11S with DECnet for the MINC-11. Building RSX11S with DECnet is
something I did many years ago for a p[roject at work and could probably redo, but the
Macro sources to talk to the MINC-11 A/D, D/A, Programable Clock and Digital I/O modules
would be nice to have if anyone ever saw such a thing.
The notion of a DECnet-connected, PDP-11-based remote data acquisition
system is something that I find quite...well, honestly...arousing.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
7:14 p.m.
On Dec 21, 2017, at 10:06, Dave McGuire <mcguire at
neurotica.com> wrote:
The notion of a DECnet-connected, PDP-11-based remote data acquisition
system is something that I find quite...well, honestly...arousing.
I find this similarly kinky. I'd love to have some data acquisition capability in my
future PDP-11/44 restoration project. One of Unibus boards I have in my stack claims to be
an an IEC bus adapter, i.e. early GPIB. Hmm, for that matter, I wonder if my VAX-11/730
might grow a Unibus expansion cage and some data acquisition hardware?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
7:23 p.m.
On 12/21/2017 01:14 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
That sounds seriously tasty.
I have one of those IEC boards as well. It's a dual GPIB controller.
I don't have a cab kit for it, though. I haven't tried to find the
pinout. I do lots of stuff with GPIB here, both vintage and current,
and would love to do some of that with a Unibus PDP-11, both in the
museum and here for my own fun.
It's good to see you here, by the way. I had a very crazy week last
week and was unable to participate in the earlier thread, but if you
want to connect via a GRE tunnel (Cisco), I can help with that. Either
way, though, welcome. I have many systems (real iron) that are up on
HECnet 24/7, and several of the systems at the museum are online when
they're brought up for tours.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The notion of
a DECnet-connected, PDP-11-based remote data acquisition
system is something that I find quite...well, honestly...arousing.
I find this similarly kinky. I'd love to have some data acquisition capability in my
future PDP-11/44 restoration project. One of Unibus boards I have in my stack claims to be
an an IEC bus adapter, i.e. early GPIB. Hmm, for that matter, I wonder if my VAX-11/730
might grow a Unibus expansion cage and some data acquisition hardware?
23 Dec
23 Dec
6:08 p.m.
On Dec 21, 2017, at 10:23, Dave McGuire <mcguire at
neurotica.com> wrote:
I have one of those IEC boards as well. It's a dual GPIB controller.
I don't have a cab kit for it, though. I haven't tried to find the
pinout. I do lots of stuff with GPIB here, both vintage and current,
and would love to do some of that with a Unibus PDP-11, both in the
museum and here for my own fun.
Sorry it took me a while to reply. Last couple of days have been a roller coaster!
I don't have a cable kit, either. I don't recall if I've found any
documentation for it yet, either, and I have no clue about what software to even start
looking for to support it. Maybe it'll turn into a functional GPIBish adapter, and
maybe it'll remain an irregular rectangle of unrealized potential.
It's good to see you here, by the way. I had a
very crazy week last
week and was unable to participate in the earlier thread, but if you
want to connect via a GRE tunnel (Cisco), I can help with that. Either
way, though, welcome. I have many systems (real iron) that are up on
HECnet 24/7, and several of the systems at the museum are online when
they're brought up for tours.
Thanks for the offer! I don't know anything about Cisco stuff or GRE tunnels yet.
Would I need to buy some old used Cisco box to do this, or is there some open-source thing
I could cobble together? Would it still work over my dodgy cell modem connection with no
fixed IP address and no exposed incoming ports (I hope!) at my router?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
8:51 p.m.
You don't need a real Cisco router. I've been using the "dynamips"
emulator
for many years, running on my Intel NUC, and connecting to Dave over a GRE
tunnel.
-Mark
On Dec 23, 2017 9:08 AM, "Mark J. Blair" <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
On Dec 21, 2017, at 10:23, Dave McGuire
<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I have one of those IEC boards as well. It's a dual GPIB controller.
I don't have a cab kit for it, though. I haven't tried to find the
pinout. I do lots of stuff with GPIB here, both vintage and current,
and would love to do some of that with a Unibus PDP-11, both in the
museum and here for my own fun.
Sorry it took me a while to reply. Last couple of days have been a roller
coaster!
I don't have a cable kit, either. I don't recall if I've found any
documentation for it yet, either, and I have no clue about what software to
even start looking for to support it. Maybe it'll turn into a functional
GPIBish adapter, and maybe it'll remain an irregular rectangle of
unrealized potential.
It's good to see you here, by the way. I
had a very crazy week last
week and was unable to participate in the earlier thread, but if you
want to connect via a GRE tunnel (Cisco), I can help with that. Either
way, though, welcome. I have many systems (real iron) that are up on
HECnet 24/7, and several of the systems at the museum are online when
they're brought up for tours.
Thanks for the offer! I don't know anything about Cisco stuff or GRE
tunnels yet. Would I need to buy some old used Cisco box to do this, or is
there some open-source thing I could cobble together? Would it still work
over my dodgy cell modem connection with no fixed IP address and no exposed
incoming ports (I hope!) at my router?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:34 p.m.
On Dec 23, 2017, at 11:51, Mark Abene <phiber at
phiber.com> wrote:
You don't need a real Cisco router. I've been using the "dynamips"
emulator for many years, running on my Intel NUC, and connecting to Dave over a GRE
tunnel.
I had to look up most of those terms. :) Not sure if I want to learn about how to Cisco if
I can find another way to do it.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net <mailto:nf6x at nf6x.net>>
http://www.nf6x.net/ <http://www.nf6x.net/>
22 Dec
22 Dec
6:15 a.m.
Dave,
I totally agree with you! A DECnet connected data acquisition system is also a dream of
mine as well. Currently my MINC runs either a 11/23 CPU with enhanced BDV-11 EPROMs with
code from an 11/23+ so it will boot DU devices or a 11/73 that boots the DU directly. The
disk is a SCSI2SD that can run RT-11 on 4 RD54s or RSX11M via a UC07. The microSD has a
cable to the front panel that accepts regular SDCARDS so operating system changes are a
card card change and reboot.
I?m trying to get some insight on the MINC module?s CSRs which are very close to ADV11,
AAV11, KWV11-C (the interupt enable bit may be different), and DRV11s. RT-11 has software
to allow BASIC to acquire the data, but I?d rather use Macro-11 for better speed and
flexibility.
On DECnet over serial lines, as Johnny said it actually works quite well. I once had a
PDP-11/24 and used the second serial port on the CPU board as a DECnet line. It connected
me to our corporate headquarters about 250 miles away.
I also worked on a system where we had disk-less 11/23s download RSX11S over
synchronous DUV11s and use DECnet for the realtime transmission of commodity trading info.
It was a star network with 10 RSX11S systems feed by two 11/44s which consumed and
distributed data from 8 commodity exchanges to around 200 brokers on VT100s hanging off
DZV11s on the 23s.
Back to the MINC, its backplane is 18 bit so 256KB is all you can have, but I?ve
thought about cutting the BDA18 line which is used for another purpose by the ADV11 and
then wiring the top 4 address lines at the CPU side of the bus. The MINC devices should
only respond to the I/O page signals
Best,
Mark
On Dec 21, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire
at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 12/21/2017 12:03 AM, Mark Matlock wrote:
Interestingly the documentation also said there was a version of RSX11S with DECnet
for the MINC-11. Building RSX11S with DECnet is something I did many years ago for a
p[roject at work and could probably redo, but the Macro sources to talk to the MINC-11
A/D, D/A, Programable Clock and Digital I/O modules would be nice to have if anyone ever
saw such a thing.
The notion of a DECnet-connected, PDP-11-based remote data acquisition
system is something that I find quite...well, honestly...arousing.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA 
4 Jan
4 Jan
9:26 a.m.
2017-12-21 20:06 GMT+02:00 Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
The notion of a DECnet-connected, PDP-11-based
remote data acquisition
system is something that I find quite...well, honestly...arousing.
DECnet of things :-)
--
http://www.sironi.tk
http://ro.sironi.tk
2316
days inactive
2334
days old
47 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
bob＠jfcl.com -
bqt＠softjar.se -
gordonamiller60＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
luca＠sironi.tk -
Mark＠infocomm.com -
mark＠matlockfamily.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
phiber＠phiber.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
wonko＠4amlunch.net