ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp --> Re:4 - HECnet

19 Nov 2021

Well, that leaves 0,01% chance to see that assumption defeated  so why not test it? 
 I'll see next week if that can be tested if a software testbed can be found to
support the single Dup11 that wise: VMS at least does not in the Decnet corner but Vax Psi
may be different. Maybe Rsx-11M+ would be a suitable testbed?

Reindert

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of Mark
Pizzolato - Info Comm
Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 05:19
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should be Ddcmp
--Re3

I have not followed the details of this conversation, BUT I'm 99.99% sure that a PDP11
can be configured with just a DUP with DECnet using that interface, and that DUP can be
"wired" to another simulator which has a DUP, KDP/DUP or a DMC and DECnet can be
spoken just fine.

- Mark

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 3:35 PM, Reindert wrote:
...

 No, the Dup is only simulated as Kdp/Dup combo, hence the Ddcmp 
 characteristics of the pair.

 Reindert

 -----Original Message-----
 From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner- hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On 
 Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
 Sent: Friday, 19 November, 2021 00:31
 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
 Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> should 
 be Ddcmp --Re2

 Fair enough.

 But DUP11 is a sync character based interface. So that one too 
 requires that you do DDCMP in software. But I didn't think simh simulated a DUP11?

    Johnny

 On 2021-11-18 23:33, R. Voorhorst wrote:
  Yes, but they are async lines and these are
indeed character based 
 with  software determining the protocol, not so the sync liness. Async 
 decnet ddcmp behaves slightly differently from sync decnet ddcmp in 
 number of characters used. Look at the packet contents in used 
 characters and in between.

 Reindert

 -----Original Message-----
 From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-  hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
  Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
 Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 23:23
 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
 Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> 
 should be Ddcmp --Re

 Well... RSX for example can talk DDCMP over DZ11 or DL11 lines just 
 as well,  which are plain simple serial lines existing in simh.
  Hopefully such lines can be connected with
interfaces doing DDCMP in  hardware (simulated in simh of course), and it should all
work.

 And any software running in RSX just have an interface that gives 
 the  DDCMP packet layer. The actual serial lines are not accessible as such 
 by any other software than the DDCMP driver.

     Johnny

 On 2021-11-18 23:01, R. Voorhorst wrote:
> Point in this case is that the ddcmp is handled in Simh and not in 
> system  software so software can only deal with packets/messages; there is 
 need for a simh sync line where the software itself will be able to 
 communicate in bytes/characters and synthesize the packets/messages as 
 the next higher organization.
 >
> Reindert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-  hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
 > Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
> Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 22:39
> To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
> Subject: Re: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet) --> 
> should be Ddcmp
>
> Well, a serial line over which DDCMP is running is purely a packet 
> based  interface.
 >
>      Johnny
>
> On 2021-11-18 21:46, R. Voorhorst wrote:
>> Indeed it is Ddcmp, but the meaning is the difference between 
>> packet/message oriented and character oriented and the latter 
>> should  also exist.
 >>
>> Reindert
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-  hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
    On Behalf Of Robert Armstrong
 Sent: Thursday, 18 November, 2021 21:11
 To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
 Subject: RE: [HECnet] ANF10 network --> DN200 (RJE, Decnet)

> Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
> They speak DDCMP, yes, but not DECnet.  Any protocol layered over 
> DDCMP
 should work.

      Indeed, and we just proved that with ANF10 which uses the 
 DMCs and DUPs but is not DECnet.

 Bob

 --
 Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                    ||  on a psychedelic trip
 email: bqt at softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
 pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 