30 Jul
2020
30 Jul
'20
11:39 p.m.
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something to
people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do try
to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could do
about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken mail
server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't have
reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS setup
for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is set up,
but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not much I
can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to make use
of such services, and such services give that kind of information, it
essentially just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any more.
There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken to
start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use them if
they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from the HECnet
mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
<XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected by
06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to end of DATA
command)
reason=CH ?
What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
Switzerland? (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I
sent to the list, but really? Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected
due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected
due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
Rejected due to local policy?
Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
recommendation.
Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the whole
time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that setup
for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize that it hurt
more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt this will be setup
on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not there now, and it's
not even clear if that is the reason for the rejects, or some other
thing. There is also no way to even get in touch with Apple in this
case, to fix this. So there is a fair chance I'll have to unsubscribe a
few more addresses in the near future...
I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
2:03 a.m.
On 2020-07-31 01:01, Supratim Sanyal wrote:
Johnny - you live in Switzerland not Sweden? :O
Yes. I am originally from Sweden, but moved to Switzerland 11 years ago.
Still have various stuff and ties back to Sweden, and of course Update
is the computer club at Uppsala University in Sweden. And that is where
most of the fun hardware and systems are located.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
2:23 a.m.
On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:39 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who thinks the hecnet
mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or
what not. Usually not much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of information, it essentially
just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any more.
I used to encounter some of these, haven't seen them recently. Your comment was
rather more polite than what I would say. I consider those blacklists to be idiot systems
run by people with bonapartist tendencies. That opinion was formed some years ago when a
well known blacklist outfit took it upon itself to (deliberately and proudly) block all
Comcast addresses. The excuse given was that some Comcast customers are spammers. Which
of course is a garbage argument.
paul
3:03 a.m.
I spent many years working for email providers of some sort or another and I can say that
not a single one of those blacklist services is worth a damn.
-brian
On Jul 30, 2020, 20:26 -0400, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>, wrote:
On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:39 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who thinks the hecnet
mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or
what not. Usually not much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of information, it essentially
just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any more.
I used to encounter some of these, haven't seen them recently. Your comment was
rather more polite than what I would say. I consider those blacklists to be idiot systems
run by people with bonapartist tendencies. That opinion was formed some years ago when a
well known blacklist outfit took it upon itself to (deliberately and proudly) block all
Comcast addresses. The excuse given was that some Comcast customers are spammers. Which of
course is a garbage argument.
paul
3:40 a.m.
Hello!
Works for me. I've been spending scads of time feeding junk into
Spamcop concerning scams regarding nonexistent surveys for good and
not really good stores and websites. One site, AWS in fact didn't make
the connection that website was in fact hosted on their EC2 instances.
But all of the ISps the idiot was devaluing were based in Europe. And
he thought that filling the text body of the messages with nonsense
unrelated to the real messages would confuse most systems. It would
confuse some filtering systems, and probably those blacklist services.
Johnny any ideas on what your next steps are, besides ignoring those clowns?
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 9:04 PM Brian Hechinger <wonko at 4amlunch.net> wrote:
I spent many years working for email providers of some sort or another and I can say that
not a single one of those blacklist services is worth a damn.
-brian
On Jul 30, 2020, 20:26 -0400, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>, wrote:
On Jul 30, 2020, at 5:39 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who thinks the hecnet
mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or
what not. Usually not much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of information, it essentially
just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any more.
I used to encounter some of these, haven't seen them recently. Your comment was
rather more polite than what I would say. I consider those blacklists to be idiot systems
run by people with bonapartist tendencies. That opinion was formed some years ago when a
well known blacklist outfit took it upon itself to (deliberately and proudly) block all
Comcast addresses. The excuse given was that some Comcast customers are spammers. Which of
course is a garbage argument.
paul
5:54 a.m.
Hi,
I?ve been managing our corporate mail system at $work for many years and can say several
things:
A lot of providers rely on SPF and DKIM to verify authorised sending servers now because
other methods of identity are no longer reliable such as RDNS and such. If you don?t have
it some large mail providers will flat out refuse to accept mail past any kind of volume
from your server. Although I don?t know for sure I suspect Apple are one of those. I know
BT (UK phone monopoly an ISP) do rely on it heavily, as do hosting & mail server
management systems like CPanel. We recently had to inform an off-site service provider
that they needed to update their records because they use SalesForce for support
infrastructure and hadn?t updated the record to include new sending servers, so our mail
stack was just yeeting their support emails because it couldn?t verify their origin vs the
sending domain. Ahhh fun times ;-D
Visa-vis the above, it?s worthy of note, that neither SPF or DKIM restrict you to your own
IP as a verified sender, you can add 3rd party servers to the record too (most of you
probably already knew that).
I am still baffled how many servers both use SBLs (spam block-lists) and not only are they
indeed not worth two damns also a lot of the services are subscription based and a
significant number of organisations let the subscription lapse and just leave an out of
date list of SBL targets on their security system, meaning even if you waste countless
hours removing your server from said SBLs (ask me how I know!) some places will still list
your server and you?ll effectively always have issues delivering there, until someone
pulls a head out of ass manoeuvre and removes said outdated SBL. We still get an
occasional SBL bounce 15 odd years after we got listed on a bunch when someone compromised
our web hosting server with a spam script. For a long time a certain recently mentioned US
ISP also kept rejecting all our outgoing mail, likely because their system was setup at
one time to autoblock anything that ever appeared on an SBL. They fixed that recently,
like about 2 years ago.
I like many others here have had a fair share of BS regards ?anti-spam? systems (which in
reality were more akin to arbitrary anti-delivery systems) over the years. It?s not
something I enjoy, and I feel your pain.
Mark
On 30 Jul 2020, at 22:39, Johnny Billquist <bqt at
softjar.se> wrote:
?Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use. I'm open to
some suggestions, but also want to point out something to people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do try to check why, and
occasionally there have been something I could do about it, but many times it's simply
what I would call a broken mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So
occasionally I unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't have reverse DNS.
Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS setup for at least 20 years. I have no
idea how that mail server is set up, but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who thinks the hecnet
mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or
what not. Usually not much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of information, it essentially
just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any more.
There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out. I do
consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken to start with, but I will
of course not say that people can't use them if they want to. But chances are that
you'll get dropped from the HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using
some service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
<XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected by
06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to end of DATA
command)
reason=CH ?
What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from Switzerland? (Yes, I do
live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the list, but really? Is all mail
from Switzerland suspect now?)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected
due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message rejected
due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
Rejected due to local policy?
Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various recommendation.
Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the whole time) by the
HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that setup for a while on a mail server
of my own, and came to realize that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I
doubt this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not there now,
and it's not even clear if that is the reason for the rejects, or some other thing.
There is also no way to even get in touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there
is a fair chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few more addresses in the near future...
I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other host. Any suggestions
from anyone on this topic?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 
8:48 a.m.
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that sometimes emails to me get
bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very little about these things). I know that
people in the know think that these spam protection systems are no good, I don't know
why because as I said I know little about all this, although it seems to me that the
*intent* behind those systems is good. However, it seems to me that, for whatever reason,
they are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of people if
you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that uses these measures?
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list, because I also get
TV and phone all through the same provider, so it would be quite disruptive. But I think
it would be good if you were able to tell people that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a
Hotmail account I could use instead if I really had to.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something to people
who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do try to check
why, and occasionally there have been something I could do about it, but many
times it's simply what I would call a broken mail server for which there isn't
much I can do. So occasionally I unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting
bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't have
reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS setup for at
least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is set up, but I can't do much
about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who thinks the
hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is untrustworthy, or have a
bad reputation or what not. Usually not much I can do about those either. If
people (or companies) decide to make use of such services, and such services
give that kind of information, it essentially just means that you'll not be getting
the hecnet mails any more.
There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken to start
with, but I will of course not say that people can't use them if they want to. But
chances are that you'll get dropped from the HECnet mailing list sooner or
later, unless you are using some service/technology that actually do work (not
sure if any such exists).
An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
<XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected by
06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to end of
DATA
command)
reason=CH ?
What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from Switzerland?
(Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the list, but really?
Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
rejected
due to local policy. Please visit
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
>
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
rejected
due to local policy. Please visit
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137
(in reply to end of DATA command)
Rejected due to local policy?
Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
recommendation.
Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the whole
time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that setup for a
while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize that it hurt more than it
helped, so I removed it again. I doubt this will be setup on Update any time
soon, but either way, it's not there now, and it's not even clear if that is the
reason for the rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even get in
touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a fair chance I'll have to
unsubscribe a few more addresses in the near future...
I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other host. Any
suggestions from anyone on this topic?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol 
10:05 a.m.
Rob (and the others)
Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good
"free" or "cheap" providers.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-broadban…
and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com, same
servers, better reputation...
... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so the
"spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked when in
reality it?s the suppliers over aggressive filters...
Dave
p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important stuff
wrongly classed as spam?
Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by some
minion..
I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies man, gets
lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different Hotmail account each time?
Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be embarrassing.......
Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha has
arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that sometimes
emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very little
about these things). I know that people in the know think that these spam
protection systems are no good, I don't know why because as I said I know
little about all this, although it seems to me that the *intent* behind those
systems is good. However, it seems to me that, for whatever reason, they
are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of
people if you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that uses these measures?
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list, because I also
get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it would be quite
disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were able to tell people that
you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail account I could use instead if I
really had to.
Regards
Rob
us/HT204137
more addresses in the near future...
>
> I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
> host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
>
> Johnny
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something to
people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
set up, but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not much
I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to make
use of such services, and such services give that kind of information,
it essentially just means that you'll not be getting the hecnet mails any
more.
There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use them
if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from the
HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
Switzerland?
<XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected by
06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
end of
DATA
command)
reason=CH ?
What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a
mail I sent to the list, but
really?
Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
us/HT204137
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from
<hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
rejected
> due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en- (in
reply to end of DATA command)
<XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01] Message
rejected
> due to local policy. Please visit https://support.apple.com/en- (in
reply to end of DATA command)
Rejected due to local policy?
Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
recommendation.
Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
whole
time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that setup
for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize that it
hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt this will be
setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not there now, and
it's not even clear if that is the reason for the rejects, or some
other thing. There is also no way to even get in touch with Apple in
this case, to fix this. So there is a fair chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
8:01 p.m.
Well I do have my own domain and I have publish my domain email and use forwarding to send
it to my actual ISP. So I can change the forwarding to my Hotmail account. The trouble
with this forwarding system is that it "leaks" my ISP address and some people to
end up using that.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of Dave Wade
Sent: 31 July 2020 09:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Rob (and the others)
Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good
"free" or
"cheap" providers.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-
broadband-isps-over-charging-for-email.html
and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com,
same servers, better reputation...
... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so
the
"spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked
when in reality it?s the suppliers over aggressive filters...
Dave
p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important
stuff wrongly classed as spam?
Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by
some minion..
I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies
man, gets lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different
Hotmail account each time?
Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be
embarrassing.......
Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha
has arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that
sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know
very little about these things). I know that people in the know think
that these spam protection systems are no good, I don't know why
because as I said I know little about all this, although it seems to
me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However, it seems
to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major
ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them
for
using an ISP that uses these measures?
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list,
because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were
able to tell people that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail
account I could use instead if I really had to.
Regards
Rob
by
> > > 06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
> > > end of
> > DATA
> > > command)
> >
> > reason=CH ?
> > What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
> Switzerland?
> > (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the
> > list, but
> really?
> > Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
> >
> > > <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > > mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
> > > Message
> > rejected
> > > due to local policy. Please visit
> > > https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
> > > (in reply to end of DATA command)
> > >
> > > <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > > mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
> > > Message
> > rejected
> > > due to local policy. Please visit
> > > https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
> > > (in reply to end of DATA command)
> >
> >
> > Rejected due to local policy?
> > Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
> > recommendation.
> >
> > Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
> > whole
> > time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that
> > setup for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize
> > that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt
> > this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not
> > there now, and it's not even clear if that is the reason for the
> > rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even get in
> > touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a fair
> > chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
> more addresses in the near future...
> >
> > I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
> > host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something
to people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
set up, but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not
much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of
information, it essentially just means that you'll not be getting
the hecnet mails any
more.
>
> There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
> I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
> to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use
> them if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from
> the HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
> service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
>
> An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
>
> > <XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
> > mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected 
8:24 p.m.
I run my own Exchange servers for family and friends. However, I do not use Microsoft?s
front end proxy or edge servers. I have my own arrangements there.
I only really use Exchange for the full feature set in Outlook... the sort of things IMAP
doesn?t give you.
On 31 Jul 2020, at 19:01, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
?Well I do have my own domain and I have publish my domain email and use forwarding to
send it to my actual ISP. So I can change the forwarding to my Hotmail account. The
trouble with this forwarding system is that it "leaks" my ISP address and some
people to end up using that.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of Dave Wade
Sent: 31 July 2020 09:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Rob (and the others)
Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good
"free" or
"cheap" providers.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-
broadband-isps-over-charging-for-email.html
and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com,
same servers, better reputation...
... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so
the
"spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked
when in reality it?s the suppliers over aggressive filters...
Dave
p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important
stuff wrongly classed as spam?
Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by
some minion..
I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies
man, gets lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different
Hotmail account each time?
Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be
embarrassing.......
Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha
has arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that
sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know
very little about these things). I know that people in the know think
that these spam protection systems are no good, I don't know why
because as I said I know little about all this, although it seems to
me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However, it seems
to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major
ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them
for
using an ISP that uses these measures?
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list,
because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were
able to tell people that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail
account I could use instead if I really had to.
Regards
Rob
by
>>> 06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
>>> end of
>> DATA
>>> command)
>>
>> reason=CH ?
>> What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
> Switzerland?
>> (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the
>> list, but
> really?
>> Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
>>
>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>> mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>> Message
>> rejected
>>> due to local policy. Please visit
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
>>> (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>>
>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>> mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>> Message
>> rejected
>>> due to local policy. Please visit
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
>>> (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>
>>
>> Rejected due to local policy?
>> Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
>> recommendation.
>>
>> Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
>> whole
>> time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that
>> setup for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize
>> that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt
>> this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not
>> there now, and it's not even clear if that is the reason for the
>> rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even get in
>> touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a fair
>> chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
> more addresses in the near future...
>>
>> I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
>> host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> || on a psychedelic trip
>> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something
to people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
set up, but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not
much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of
information, it essentially just means that you'll not be getting
the hecnet mails any
more.
>
> There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
> I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
> to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use
> them if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from
> the HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
> service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
>
> An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
>
>> <XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>> mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected 
9:14 p.m.
On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:01 PM, Rob Jarratt
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
Well I do have my own domain and I have publish my domain email and use forwarding to
send it to my actual ISP. So I can change the forwarding to my Hotmail account. The
trouble with this forwarding system is that it "leaks" my ISP address and some
people to end up using that.
Rob - Yep. Right. :)
OT - ROUTE20 is holding up for many weeks now!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On Behalf
Of Dave Wade
Sent: 31 July 2020 09:06
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Rob (and the others)
Why do you use your ISPs "free" E-Mail accounts when there are good
"free" or
"cheap" providers.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/ofcom-warns-major-uk-
broadband-isps-over-charging-for-email.html
and if you don't like a @hotmail.com address why not add an @outlook.com,
same servers, better reputation...
... as for "spam detection" systems well they want the headline figure , so
the
"spam detection rate" to be as high as possible.
Most customers are happy with this and blame the sender if things get blocked
when in reality it?s the suppliers over aggressive filters...
Dave
p.s. when talking to suppliers of such systems, I say what happens to important
stuff wrongly classed as spam?
Usually they used to tell me it was retained in a folder and could be checked by
some minion..
I say so, the Finance Director, who will be paying for this is a bit of a ladies
man, gets lewd e-mails from his lady friends who tend to use a different
Hotmail account each time?
Will those get filtered and will the minions see those as it could be
embarrassing.......
Pps. I now have a fixed IP address but it looks like no VAX licences soon.... Alpha
has arrived but I am not leaving it on full time even if it runs ... pic here
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ag4BJfE5B3onmM4SMrRd2aiAnoG2dw?e=UGwLNh
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Rob Jarratt
Sent: 31 July 2020 07:48
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] Mailing list...
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I know that
sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know
very little about these things). I know that people in the know think
that these spam protection systems are no good, I don't know why
because as I said I know little about all this, although it seems to
me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However, it seems
to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major
ISPs, so might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them
for
using an ISP that uses these measures?
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for one mailing list,
because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were
able to tell people that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail
account I could use instead if I really had to.
Regards
Rob
by
>>> 06ULCRRd021949 on mxdrop301.xs4all.net, reason=CH (in reply to
>>> end of
>> DATA
>>> command)
>>
>> reason=CH ?
>> What does that mean. The mail is rejected because it came from
> Switzerland?
>> (Yes, I do live in Switzerland, and yes, it was a mail I sent to the
>> list, but
> really?
>> Is all mail from Switzerland suspect now?)
>>
>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>> mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>> Message
>> rejected
>>> due to local policy. Please visit
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
>>> (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>>
>>> <XXXXXX at me.com> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>>> mx01.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.9] said: 554 5.7.1 [CS01]
>>> Message
>> rejected
>>> due to local policy. Please visit
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-
> us/HT204137
>>> (in reply to end of DATA command)
>>
>>
>> Rejected due to local policy?
>> Following the link don't really give an answer, but just various
>> recommendation.
>>
>> Most of those recommendations are already done (and have been the
>> whole
>> time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had that
>> setup for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to realize
>> that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I doubt
>> this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way, it's not
>> there now, and it's not even clear if that is the reason for the
>> rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even get in
>> touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a fair
>> chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few
> more addresses in the near future...
>>
>> I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
>> host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> || on a psychedelic trip
>> email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE <owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE> On
Behalf
Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: 30 July 2020 22:40
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Mailing list...
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people use.
I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out something
to people who are subscribed.
Sometimes I start getting mails bouncing for some subscribers. I do
try to check why, and occasionally there have been something I could
do about it, but many times it's simply what I would call a broken
mail server for which there isn't much I can do. So occasionally I
unsubscribe people for which I'm just getting bounces all the time.
One such example is one server who claims that 130.238.19.25 don't
have reverse DNS. Which is clearly incorrect. It have had proper DNS
setup for at least 20 years. I have no idea how that mail server is
set up, but I can't do much about it.
Other times mails gets denied because of some blocking service who
thinks the hecnet mails are just spam, or the host (Update) is
untrustworthy, or have a bad reputation or what not. Usually not
much I can do about those either. If people (or companies) decide to
make use of such services, and such services give that kind of
information, it essentially just means that you'll not be getting
the hecnet mails any
more.
>
> There is only so much I'm willing to do to try and sort such things out.
> I do consider such services and solutions to be fundamentally broken
> to start with, but I will of course not say that people can't use
> them if they want to. But chances are that you'll get dropped from
> the HECnet mailing list sooner or later, unless you are using some
> service/technology that actually do work (not sure if any such exists).
>
> An example I got today (actual mailbox names redacted):
>
>> <XXXXXX at xs4all.nl> (expanded from <hecnet-list>): host
>> mx4.xs4all.nl[194.109.24.139] said: 550 5.7.1 Spam message rejected
10:58 a.m.
On 2020-07-31 08:48, Rob Jarratt wrote:
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I
know that sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very
little about these things). I know that people in the know think that these spam
protection systems are no good, I don't know why because as I said I know little about
all this, although it seems to me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However,
it seems to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so
might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that
uses these measures?
Like I said, I started testing DKIM and SPF a couple of months ago for a
different server that I manage myself. End result was that some sites
then started blocking me just because of that, since then they thought
they knew more about me. Other started spamming me with various reports
that just was not useful at all. In the end, I removed the DKIM and SPF
information, because it actually did cause more problems than it solved.
I do not enjoy having to unsubscribe people, but at some point the
rejects are just becoming too many, and I give up on that address.
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for
one mailing list, because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were able to tell people
that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail account I could use instead if I really
had to.
Well, I could probably try to do a bit better, but since the list mails
are getting bounced, the risk is that my other mails will also bounce,
so it's a bit hard to even tell them that things are broken.
And for those who asked - I don't have any brilliant plans or ideas. I
sometimes do check if there is something I can do with individual sites
that refuse, but most of the time there isn't actually much I can do,
and if it continues, I eventually just give in and unsubscribe the
person. I wish there were some other way of handling this that I could
think of, which is why I'm also asking around.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
11:26 a.m.
There's always DEC/HECnet mail :)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of
Johnny Billquist
Sent: 31 July 2020 09:59
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Mailing list...
On 2020-07-31 08:48, Rob Jarratt wrote:
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK. I
know that sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very
little about these things). I know that people in the know think that these spam
protection systems are no good, I don't know why because as I said I know little about
all this, although it seems to me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However,
it seems to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so
might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that
uses these measures?
Like I said, I started testing DKIM and SPF a couple of months ago for a different server
that I manage myself. End result was that some sites then started blocking me just because
of that, since then they thought they knew more about me. Other started spamming me with
various reports that just was not useful at all. In the end, I removed the DKIM and SPF
information, because it actually did cause more problems than it solved.
I do not enjoy having to unsubscribe people, but at some point the rejects are just
becoming too many, and I give up on that address.
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just for
one mailing list, because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were able to tell people
that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail account I could use instead if I really
had to.
Well, I could probably try to do a bit better, but since the list mails are getting
bounced, the risk is that my other mails will also bounce, so it's a bit hard to even
tell them that things are broken.
And for those who asked - I don't have any brilliant plans or ideas. I sometimes do
check if there is something I can do with individual sites that refuse, but most of the
time there isn't actually much I can do, and if it continues, I eventually just give
in and unsubscribe the person. I wish there were some other way of handling this that I
could think of, which is why I'm also asking around.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
11:48 a.m.
On 2020-07-31 11:26, Keith Halewood wrote:
There's always DEC/HECnet mail :)
Indeed. :-)
I don't think there is anyone (yet) subscribed with an address on
HECnet, but maybe that will come.
I also extended BQTMAIL running on MIM a while ago, so that there is now
an API and hooks in there so I could write a mailing list daemon if I
wanted to. I just haven't come around to doing anything more yet. But I
am slightly amused by the idea of having the mailing list managed from
RSX... And I could have all subscribers in a Datatrieve database. ;-)
Johnny
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf Of
Johnny Billquist
Sent: 31 July 2020 09:59
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Mailing list...
On 2020-07-31 08:48, Rob Jarratt wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I use a very common ISP (Virgin Media) in the UK.
I know that sometimes emails to me get bounced because of DKIM or whatever (I know very
little about these things). I know that people in the know think that these spam
protection systems are no good, I don't know why because as I said I know little about
all this, although it seems to me that the *intent* behind those systems is good. However,
it seems to me that, for whatever reason, they are used by a lot of the major ISPs, so
might you end up excluding a lot of people if you unsubscribe them for using an ISP that
uses these measures?
Like I said, I started testing DKIM and SPF a couple of months ago for a different server
that I manage myself. End result was that some sites then started blocking me just because
of that, since then they thought they knew more about me. Other started spamming me with
various reports that just was not useful at all. In the end, I removed the DKIM and SPF
information, because it actually did cause more problems than it solved.
I do not enjoy having to unsubscribe people, but at some point the rejects are just
becoming too many, and I give up on that address.
I really wouldn't want to change my ISP just
for one mailing list, because I also get TV and phone all through the same provider, so it
would be quite disruptive. But I think it would be good if you were able to tell people
that you choose to unsubscribe. I have a Hotmail account I could use instead if I really
had to.
Well, I could probably try to do a bit better, but since the list mails are getting
bounced, the risk is that my other mails will also bounce, so it's a bit hard to even
tell them that things are broken.
And for those who asked - I don't have any brilliant plans or ideas. I sometimes do
check if there is something I can do with individual sites that refuse, but most of the
time there isn't actually much I can do, and if it continues, I eventually just give
in and unsubscribe the person. I wish there were some other way of handling this that I
could think of, which is why I'm also asking around.
Johnny
11:55 p.m.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:39:40PM +0200, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hi, all.
I have an issue with some mail servers/providers that some people
use. I'm open to some suggestions, but also want to point out
something to people who are subscribed.
[...]
Most of those recommendations are already done (and
have been the
whole time) by the HECnet list. SPF and DKIM we don't use. I had
that setup for a while on a mail server of my own, and came to
realize that it hurt more than it helped, so I removed it again. I
doubt this will be setup on Update any time soon, but either way,
it's not there now, and it's not even clear if that is the reason
for the rejects, or some other thing. There is also no way to even
get in touch with Apple in this case, to fix this. So there is a
fair chance I'll have to unsubscribe a few more addresses in the
near future...
I am not really interested in moving the mailing list to some other
host. Any suggestions from anyone on this topic?
[...]
Hi, I am the lurker here, but sometimes posting on other related
lists. Let us see if I will bounce :-)
Alas, my view of the problem is rather pessimistic. The way to connect
majority (all those billions) of humans is something that could be
named as industrial internet. The places like this list will be like
the border between water and air. They will exist, but most probably
(IMHO) are going to be inaccessible from accounts in industrial part,
which will host businesses and the clientele. I do not mean they will
be illegal. Nothing like this at all. If you know about them, you will
be welcome. To know about them, you will have to know about them,
because nothing and nobody in industrial part will tell you.
I think this is going to be like a magnified info bubble. One can see
the beginning of it each time when researchers find out that majority
of users (I am not sure, maybe just a significant part of) think that
this icon with huge "F" letter is "the internet".
Now, the good part is that one will be able to set up a small ISP, no
problem. And send/recv mails from the list with address from the
ISP. But not send/revc with industrial part, which will be the world
in itself. To exchange emails with business contacts one will have to
use free email from industrial net.
So, in essence, one will have to use two addresses in order to be on
this list and have a successful career.
Demanding that one address works with both industrial and
nonindustrial parts of the net - I do not think this is going to make
any difference. Yes it can be considered the right thing to demand,
but no it will not work.
--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola
--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com **
1375
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-
bqt＠softjar.se -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
gregg.drwho8＠gmail.com -
Keith.Halewood＠pitbulluk.org -
md.benson＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rtomek＠ceti.pl -
supratim＠riseup.net -
wonko＠4amlunch.net