7 Jul
2017
7 Jul
'17
11:18 a.m.
Hi,
I have just become the proud owner of a DECmate II (in original
packaging no less :-). I had hoped to do something fun with it, but
unfortunately at the moment is is loaded with WPS. So, I was hoping to
load OS/278 onto it. Unfortunately, I don't have anything that I can
use to write the floppy images to.
So, after Googling around I came across something called a KryoFlux:
https://www.kryoflux.com/?page=home
They don't specifically say that the support RX50, but I did find a
couple posts on their forum suggesting that maybe it could be done.
Before I go off and buy one of these (and a 5.25 floppy drive, although
not from them...) I was wondering if anyone out there had used this
before? Maybe a different solution?
Alternatively, if there is someone out there who could help copy the
OS/278 binary and source images to RX50, I would be really appreciative.
I'm more than happy to pay my way and provide the disks.
Anyway, thanks in advance.
Regards, Tim.
7 Jul
7 Jul
12:01 p.m.
Hi.
On 2017-07-07 11:18, Tim Sneddon wrote:
Hi,
I have just become the proud owner of a DECmate II (in original
packaging no less :-). I had hoped to do something fun with it, but
unfortunately at the moment is is loaded with WPS. So, I was hoping to
load OS/278 onto it. Unfortunately, I don't have anything that I can
use to write the floppy images to.
So, after Googling around I came across something called a KryoFlux:
https://www.kryoflux.com/?page=home
They don't specifically say that the support RX50, but I did find a
couple posts on their forum suggesting that maybe it could be done.
Before I go off and buy one of these (and a 5.25 floppy drive, although
not from them...) I was wondering if anyone out there had used this
before? Maybe a different solution?
Alternatively, if there is someone out there who could help copy the
OS/278 binary and source images to RX50, I would be really appreciative.
I'm more than happy to pay my way and provide the disks.
Anyway, thanks in advance.
Regards, Tim.
I didn't know the Kryoflux could write disks. I always assumed it only
read them.
Anyway, I have an RX50 on PONDUS::, but I have not used it in a couple
of years...
But it would also require that you have full disk images, and not
individual files, or some special format thing.
Also, be aware that other types of disks might, or might not, work that
well in RX50... The RX50 is a bit "special".
And no, my stash of RX50 floppies is close to empty, so I can't help
with that part.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
9:43 p.m.
I've got some rx50s still in use. If Johnny can't do this for you I can
have a shot at it..
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 4:18 AM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
Hi,
I have just become the proud owner of a DECmate II (in original
packaging no less :-). I had hoped to do something fun with it, but
unfortunately at the moment is is loaded with WPS. So, I was hoping to
load OS/278 onto it. Unfortunately, I don't have anything that I can
use to write the floppy images to.
So, after Googling around I came across something called a KryoFlux:
https://www.kryoflux.com/?page=home
They don't specifically say that the support RX50, but I did find a
couple posts on their forum suggesting that maybe it could be done.
Before I go off and buy one of these (and a 5.25 floppy drive, although
not from them...) I was wondering if anyone out there had used this
before? Maybe a different solution?
Alternatively, if there is someone out there who could help copy the
OS/278 binary and source images to RX50, I would be really appreciative.
I'm more than happy to pay my way and provide the disks.
Anyway, thanks in advance.
Regards, Tim.
8 Jul
8 Jul
12:15 a.m.
You're probably closer than me anyway, Lee.
Johnny
Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> skrev: (7 juli 2017 21:43:24 CEST)
I've got some rx50s still in use. If Johnny
can't do this for you I can
have a shot at it..
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 4:18 AM
To: hecnet at update.uu.se
Subject: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
Hi,
I have just become the proud owner of a DECmate II (in original
packaging no less :-). I had hoped to do something fun with it, but
unfortunately at the moment is is loaded with WPS. So, I was hoping to
load OS/278 onto it. Unfortunately, I don't have anything that I can
use to write the floppy images to.
So, after Googling around I came across something called a KryoFlux:
https://www.kryoflux.com/?page=home
They don't specifically say that the support RX50, but I did find a
couple posts on their forum suggesting that maybe it could be done.
Before I go off and buy one of these (and a 5.25 floppy drive, although
not from them...) I was wondering if anyone out there had used this
before? Maybe a different solution?
Alternatively, if there is someone out there who could help copy the
OS/278 binary and source images to RX50, I would be really
appreciative.
I'm more than happy to pay my way and provide the disks.
Anyway, thanks in advance.
Regards, Tim.
--
Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.
3:53 p.m.
On 8/07/2017 6:15 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
You're probably closer than me anyway, Lee.
Johnny
Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> skrev: (7 juli 2017 21:43:24 CEST)
Thanks, guys. That is much appreciated. Shipping is cheaper from
Australia to the US, so if you're good Lee, I'd like to go with you.
I've got a bunch of diskettes that I can ship to you. The images are
all online here:
https://goo.gl/BavuT6
I'm guessing that they are in Teledisk format (some sort of disk archive
tool that I am unfamiliar with). Hopefully that is something that you
are able to work with. Otherwise I might need to write something to
reformat them appropriately.
I'm not after all of them, so I'll send you a list of the ones I'm in
need of.
I really appreciate any and all help with this.
Regards, Tim.
I've got some rx50s still in use. If Johnny can't do this for you I can
have a shot at it..
5:31 p.m.
Ah! Teledisk images.
Basically, that's a proprietary format which is intended to be able to
restore the disk including the low level format. It's a bit difficult to
deal with if you are not using Teledisk. I know I have a tool somewhere
that can extract the actual data from such an image, which is what would
be more useful when you are writing it on an actual RX50 drive. I
believe I found it somewhere on the internet many moons ago, but
hopefully others have it too.
In addition, RX50 drives in general only accept preformatted media, and
RX50 low level format is unlike any other disk format, so you either
need real RX50 floppies, or else some machine that is able to format
RX50 floppies. Of DEC equipment, only the Rainbow were actually able to
format RX50. Generic PCs can sometimes do it, if you have the right type
of controller and drive, and appropriate floppies. But success with that
have been a bit random when I've read about it. But I suspect it's your
best chance, since getting genuine RX50 floppies nowadays is even harder.
Johnny
On 2017-07-08 15:53, Tim Sneddon wrote:
On 8/07/2017 6:15 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
You're probably closer than me anyway, Lee.
Johnny
Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> skrev: (7 juli 2017 21:43:24 CEST)
Thanks, guys. That is much appreciated. Shipping is cheaper from
Australia to the US, so if you're good Lee, I'd like to go with you.
I've got a bunch of diskettes that I can ship to you. The images are
all online here:
https://goo.gl/BavuT6
I'm guessing that they are in Teledisk format (some sort of disk archive
tool that I am unfamiliar with). Hopefully that is something that you
are able to work with. Otherwise I might need to write something to
reformat them appropriately.
I'm not after all of them, so I'll send you a list of the ones I'm in
need of.
I really appreciate any and all help with this.
Regards, Tim. > I've got some rx50s still in use.
If Johnny can't do this
for you I can
have a shot at it..
5:51 p.m.
On 8/07/2017 11:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Ah! Teledisk images.
Basically, that's a proprietary format which is intended to be able to
restore the disk including the low level format. It's a bit difficult to
deal with if you are not using Teledisk. I know I have a tool somewhere
that can extract the actual data from such an image, which is what would
be more useful when you are writing it on an actual RX50 drive. I
believe I found it somewhere on the internet many moons ago, but
hopefully others have it too.
Yeah, I saw some details about the format described. I was only browsing
so I didn't notice a tool, but there were details of the file structure.
In addition, RX50 drives in general only accept preformatted media, and
RX50 low level format is unlike any other disk format, so you either
need real RX50 floppies, or else some machine that is able to format
RX50 floppies. Of DEC equipment, only the Rainbow were actually able to
format RX50. Generic PCs can sometimes do it, if you have the right type
of controller and drive, and appropriate floppies. But success with that
have been a bit random when I've read about it. But I suspect it's your
best chance, since getting genuine RX50 floppies nowadays is even harder.
I have genuine RX50 floppies that have been used in DECmate II and
PRO350 systems. I believe they should be adequately formatted.
Regards, Tim.
9:03 p.m.
I don't have the capability to read teledisk images, and a brief google
search showed the programs I saw available to do so all seem to run on Linux
and DOS...two OSes I don't have available...
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:51 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE ; Lee Gleason
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 8/07/2017 11:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Ah! Teledisk images.
Basically, that's a proprietary format which is intended to be able to
restore the disk including the low level format. It's a bit difficult to
deal with if you are not using Teledisk. I know I have a tool somewhere
that can extract the actual data from such an image, which is what would
be more useful when you are writing it on an actual RX50 drive. I believe
I found it somewhere on the internet many moons ago, but hopefully others
have it too.
Yeah, I saw some details about the format described. I was only browsing
so I didn't notice a tool, but there were details of the file structure.
In addition, RX50 drives in general only accept preformatted media, and
RX50 low level format is unlike any other disk format, so you either need
real RX50 floppies, or else some machine that is able to format RX50
floppies. Of DEC equipment, only the Rainbow were actually able to format
RX50. Generic PCs can sometimes do it, if you have the right type of
controller and drive, and appropriate floppies. But success with that have
been a bit random when I've read about it. But I suspect it's your best
chance, since getting genuine RX50 floppies nowadays is even harder.
I have genuine RX50 floppies that have been used in DECmate II and
PRO350 systems. I believe they should be adequately formatted.
Regards, Tim.
9 Jul
9 Jul
8:04 a.m.
On 9/07/2017 3:03 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
I don't have the capability to read teledisk
images, and a brief
google search showed the programs I saw available to do so all seem to
run on Linux and DOS...two OSes I don't have available...
Hmm, okay. So, what sort of format would work for you? I found details
about the file structure and I imagine I could read these images and
convert them to something that your systems could work with.
Regards, Tim.
11:07 a.m.
On 2017-07-09 08:04, Tim Sneddon wrote:
On 9/07/2017 3:03 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
When you have a real RX50, all you want are the actual bytes that should
be written to the disk, and nothing else.
Which means it should be a 400K plain raw disk dump.
(In Unix-speak the result of "dd if=/dev/floppy of=image")
The format information is implicitly already there, and correct, since
we're playing on the real hardware.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I don't have the capability to read
teledisk images, and a brief
google search showed the programs I saw available to do so all seem to
run on Linux and DOS...two OSes I don't have available...
Hmm, okay. So, what sort of format would work for you? I found details
about the file structure and I imagine I could read these images and
convert them to something that your systems could work with.
7:02 p.m.
Most any simple sort of disk dump would work for me. Blocks in a file, to
QIO to the output RX50.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2017 1:04 AM
To: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 9/07/2017 3:03 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
I don't have the capability to read teledisk
images, and a brief google
search showed the programs I saw available to do so all seem to run on
Linux and DOS...two OSes I don't have available...
Hmm, okay. So, what sort of format would work for you? I found details
about the file structure and I imagine I could read these images and
convert them to something that your systems could work with.
Regards, Tim.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
11 Jul
11 Jul
4:22 a.m.
On 10/07/2017 1:02 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
Most any simple sort of disk dump would work for me.
Blocks in a file,
to QIO to the output RX50.
Looks like the tool I found (very likely the same one Johnny has) seems
to be able to read the Teledisk files and write accurate dumps.
So, I guess how would you like me to get them to you. I can put them up
on an FTP site, I can ZIP them, etc.
Regards, Tim.
4:48 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Sneddon
To: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 10/07/2017 1:02 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
Most any simple sort of disk dump would work for me.
Blocks in a file,
to QIO to the output RX50.
Looks like the tool I found (very likely the same one Johnny has) seems
to be able to read the Teledisk files and write accurate dumps.
So, I guess how would you like me to get them to you. I can put them up
on an FTP site, I can ZIP them, etc.
Regards, Tim.
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img/index.htm
Talks about 8" disks, teledisk and something meant to replace teledisk.
Bill
3:21 p.m.
FTP, or email me ZIPs, whatever's convenient for you.
I have a couple of RX50 diskettes I can test with once you have some data.
If you need a lot of diskettes written, we'll have to turn up some more from
somewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:22 PM
To: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 10/07/2017 1:02 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
Most any simple sort of disk dump would work for me.
Blocks in a file,
to QIO to the output RX50.
Looks like the tool I found (very likely the same one Johnny has) seems
to be able to read the Teledisk files and write accurate dumps.
So, I guess how would you like me to get them to you. I can put them up
on an FTP site, I can ZIP them, etc.
Regards, Tim.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
3:30 p.m.
Lee, if you are going to do the writing under RSX, I can provide some tools and tips if
you don't already have it all sorted. I've done this a few times before.
Johnny
Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> skrev: (11 juli 2017 15:21:14 CEST)
FTP, or email me ZIPs, whatever's convenient for
you.
I have a couple of RX50 diskettes I can test with once you have some
data.
If you need a lot of diskettes written, we'll have to turn up some more
from
somewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:22 PM
To: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 10/07/2017 1:02 AM, Lee Gleason wrote:
--
Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.
Most any simple sort of disk dump would work
for me. Blocks in a
file,
to QIO to the output RX50.
Looks like the tool I found (very likely the same one Johnny has) seems
to be able to read the Teledisk files and write accurate dumps.
So, I guess how would you like me to get them to you. I can put them
up
on an FTP site, I can ZIP them, etc.
Regards, Tim.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
7:24 p.m.
I have some tools I wrote that should do this . I wrote them awhile back when I needed
to read and write virtual floppy disks for my RX50 collection from my PRO systems.
But I?m always interested in seeing your RSX work ? I?d love to have a look at whatever
tools you?ve put together.
From: Johnny Billquist
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 8:30 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE ; Lee Gleason ; Tim Sneddon
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
Lee, if you are going to do the writing under RSX, I can provide some tools and tips if
you don't already have it all sorted. I've done this a few times before.
Johnny
Lee Gleason <lee.gleason at comcast.net> skrev: (11 juli 2017 15:21:14 CEST)
FTP, or email me ZIPs, whatever's convenient for you. I have a couple of RX50
diskettes I can test with once you have some data. If you need a lot of diskettes written,
we'll have to turn up some more from somewhere.-----Original Message----- From: Tim
SneddonSent: Monday, July 10, 2017 9:22 PMTo: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SESubject:
Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...On 10/07/2017 1:02 AM, Lee Gleason wrote: Most any
simple sort of disk dump would work for me. Blocks in a file, to QIO to the output
RX50.Looks like the tool I found (very likely the same one Johnny has) seemsto be able to
read the Teledisk files and write accurate dumps.So, I guess how would you like me to get
them to you. I can put them upon an FTP site, I can ZIP them, etc.Regards, Tim. ---This
email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.https://www.avast.com/antivirus
--
Skickat fr?n min Android-enhet med K-9 Mail. Urs?kta min f?ordighet.
5:31 p.m.
On 11/07/2017 9:21 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
FTP, or email me ZIPs, whatever's convenient for
you.
I have a couple of RX50 diskettes I can test with once you have some
data. If you need a lot of diskettes written, we'll have to turn up some
more from somewhere.
Hi Lee,
I have a bunch of RX50 diskettes here that I can send to you. However,
just to add more to this whole thing...apparently John Wilson has done
this before and has created a set of images that can be written from a
PDP-11. The images can be found here:
ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/images/
This if from his README:
block Contains RX50 images in PDP-11 block format. These files can be
copied to an RX50 drive on a PDP-11, MicroVAX, Pro-3xx etc.
using COPY/FILE/DEV on RT-11, or some equivalent command on
other operating systems. The files are interleaved in the
inverse of the method used by the RQDX1/2/3 or RUX50 firmware
(or the Pro DZ: device drivers), so writing the floppy from a
PDP-11 etc. will give the correct disk format (DECmates use
their own different interleave scheme). See block/README for
information on writing disks using PUTR.
The images I'm interested in are:
DM101b1
DM101b2
DM101b3
DM1111
DM1112
DM1113
DM1114
DM1115
DM1121
DM122
GAMES11
GAMES20
K12V10G1
K12V10G2
K12V10G3
That is 15 diskettes, so a little more than one or two :-) However, as
I said, when I got the DECmate II it came with a bunch of diskettes, so
I can send quite a few along.
Regards, Tim.
7:25 p.m.
Well, that simplifies things quite a bit all around. I'll write out a few
and send them to you and see how it works out.
What's your postal address?
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:31 AM
To: Lee Gleason ; hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 11/07/2017 9:21 PM, Lee Gleason wrote:
FTP, or email me ZIPs, whatever's convenient for
you.
I have a couple of RX50 diskettes I can test with once you have some
data. If you need a lot of diskettes written, we'll have to turn up some
more from somewhere.
Hi Lee,
I have a bunch of RX50 diskettes here that I can send to you. However,
just to add more to this whole thing...apparently John Wilson has done
this before and has created a set of images that can be written from a
PDP-11. The images can be found here:
ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp8/images/
This if from his README:
block Contains RX50 images in PDP-11 block format. These files can be
copied to an RX50 drive on a PDP-11, MicroVAX, Pro-3xx etc.
using COPY/FILE/DEV on RT-11, or some equivalent command on
other operating systems. The files are interleaved in the
inverse of the method used by the RQDX1/2/3 or RUX50 firmware
(or the Pro DZ: device drivers), so writing the floppy from a
PDP-11 etc. will give the correct disk format (DECmates use
their own different interleave scheme). See block/README for
information on writing disks using PUTR.
The images I'm interested in are:
DM101b1
DM101b2
DM101b3
DM1111
DM1112
DM1113
DM1114
DM1115
DM1121
DM122
GAMES11
GAMES20
K12V10G1
K12V10G2
K12V10G3
That is 15 diskettes, so a little more than one or two :-) However, as
I said, when I got the DECmate II it came with a bunch of diskettes, so
I can send quite a few along.
Regards, Tim.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
9 Jul
9 Jul
11 a.m.
The conversion program I have somewhere is just a plain C program, if I
remember right. It just sucks the data bytes out of the image.
If noone else have it, I can start searching around where I might have
placed it.
Johnny
On 2017-07-08 21:03, Lee Gleason wrote:
I don't have the capability to read teledisk
images, and a brief
google search showed the programs I saw available to do so all seem to
run on Linux and DOS...two OSes I don't have available...
-----Original Message----- From: Tim Sneddon
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:51 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE ; Lee Gleason
Subject: Re: [HECnet] DECmate II and OS/278...
On 8/07/2017 11:31 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Ah! Teledisk images.
Basically, that's a proprietary format which is intended to be able to
restore the disk including the low level format. It's a bit difficult
to deal with if you are not using Teledisk. I know I have a tool
somewhere that can extract the actual data from such an image, which
is what would be more useful when you are writing it on an actual RX50
drive. I believe I found it somewhere on the internet many moons ago,
but hopefully others have it too.
Yeah, I saw some details about the format described. I was only browsing
so I didn't notice a tool, but there were details of the file structure.
In addition, RX50 drives in general only accept preformatted media,
and RX50 low level format is unlike any other disk format, so you
either need real RX50 floppies, or else some machine that is able to
format RX50 floppies. Of DEC equipment, only the Rainbow were actually
able to format RX50. Generic PCs can sometimes do it, if you have the
right type of controller and drive, and appropriate floppies. But
success with that have been a bit random when I've read about it. But
I suspect it's your best chance, since getting genuine RX50 floppies
nowadays is even harder.
I have genuine RX50 floppies that have been used in DECmate II and
PRO350 systems. I believe they should be adequately formatted.
Regards, Tim.
10 Jul
10 Jul
5:06 a.m.
On 9/07/2017 5:00 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
The conversion program I have somewhere is just a
plain C program, if I
remember right. It just sucks the data bytes out of the image.
If noone else have it, I can start searching around where I might have
placed it.
This looks like it:
ftp://ftp.mrynet.com/os/CPM/UNIXtools/wteledsk/wteledsk.htm
This guy talks about using it to extract the raw data from the Teledisk
image file and write back to an RX50 with a Rainbow+PUTR. I'll have a
closer read this afternoon when I take lunch. I imagine I can use this
to generate the images that Lee or yourself can write back.
Regards, Tim.
2483
days inactive
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days old
20 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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billcun＠suddenlink.net -
bqt＠softjar.se -
lee.gleason＠comcast.net -
tim＠sneddon.id.au