26 Mar
2023
26 Mar
'23
7:11 p.m.
I got asked what the power requirements would have been for 1985 vintage
KL10 based system.
Does anybody know where I would be able to find such information? I had
thought it was in the site installation guide, but I haven't found an
online version, yet.
About the only thing I can remember is that it was three phase power and
that the power supplies were very inefficient.
26 Mar
26 Mar
8:19 p.m.
Bitsavers has some stuff in the pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10 directory, including
EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10/EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf>
which describes the power supply subsystem. That mentions power requirements. Yes, 208
volt 3-phase at 60 amps per phase...
I think those are linear supplies, so they aren't as efficient as switchers.
paul
On Mar 26, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Thomas DeBellis
<tommytimesharing(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I got asked what the power requirements would have been for 1985 vintage KL10 based
system.
Does anybody know where I would be able to find such information? I had thought it was
in the site installation guide, but I haven't found an online version, yet.
About the only thing I can remember is that it was three phase power and that the power
supplies were very inefficient.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se
9:15 p.m.
Thanks, I had a look; this is 'just' for the processor complex, so I
have yet to scare up the peripherals.
The first three cabinets are the processor, I/O control, memory and
communications (PDP-11/40 front end) complex. These alone account for
21.6 kilowatts. Ouch... Of course, that's without the peripherals.
CU20B had a 3 pack RP06 PS: (boot) structure (email, staff and client
storage) and other executables), an RP07 CU: structure (staff usage),
an RP06 SNARK: structure (Monitor, Exec and Galaxy sources) and a free
RP06 for client disk mounts. It had a pair of TU78 (6250 BPI) tape
drives plus two more PDP-11 front ends for WAN DECnet and IBM
communications.
Finally, it had a stack of RA81's for the common file system and
associated CI and STAR connector. I can't remember what we kept on
those; they were not initially all that reliable (neither was the RP07),
come to think of it. I'm probably forgetting something. I would say
all of that shit easily doubled things, so I guess you're talking 50
kilowatts.
CompuServe came up with another power supply which I would assume was a
switcher; it halved the power requirements. They offered to license it
to DEC for free, but apparently DEC didn't take it because it was too
late into the KL product life cycle. I heard of other sites using it,
but I think you had to have your own internal Field Service personnel.
CMU did that, but I'm not sure if it was for the power supplies.
I once heard of some guy who managed to get a KA10 (just the processor
complex) into his apartment. This was a building that was so old that
it didn't have separate meters for each apartment (!!). While he could
only run it during the winter (with the windows wide open), he didn't
get nailed for the power.
Having once inhabited in an older (WWII) Queens (LIC) apartment, I'm not
sure how he would have done that without melting the wiring, so maybe
this is apocryphal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/26/23 2:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Bitsavers has some stuff in the pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10 directory,
including EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10/EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf> which
describes the power supply subsystem. That mentions power
requirements. Yes, 208 volt 3-phase at 60 amps per phase...
I think those are linear supplies, so they aren't as efficient as
switchers.
paul
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mar 26, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Thomas DeBellis
> <tommytimesharing(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I got asked what the power requirements would have been for 1985
> vintage KL10 based system.
>
> Does anybody know where I would be able to find such information? I
> had thought it was in the site installation guide, but I haven't
> found an online version, yet.
>
> About the only thing I can remember is that it was three phase power
> and that the power supplies were very inefficient.
10:49 p.m.
The 60A per phase was what the dimensions/specs were. Not what it
actually required.
Update kept a KL (-2060) running for a number of years, and we had the
CPU, three RP06, one RP07, one TU77, one expansion cabinet for extra
terminal lines, and the cooling system, all on a common 3-phase 410V 63A
(hello Europe). However, I'm pretty sure we could have run it on less
than half that. I don't remember if we actually had some proper measured
consumption, but
We might have been running some other stuff on that power outlet as well
(maybe an 11/70 or so...).
The power system for the memory was the really bad thing in the KL. It
was a big straight transformer. I had to replace it once, and it was
heavy as hell. No switched stuff in sight for that one.
On 2023-03-26 21:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
Thanks, I had a look; this is 'just' for the
processor complex, so I
have yet to scare up the peripherals.
The first three cabinets are the processor, I/O control, memory and
communications (PDP-11/40 front end) complex. These alone accountfor
21.6 kilowatts. Ouch... Of course, that's without the peripherals.
CU20B had a 3 pack RP06 PS: (boot) structure (email, staff and client
storage) and other executables), an RP07 CU: structure (staff usage),
an RP06 SNARK: structure (Monitor, Exec and Galaxy sources) and a free
RP06 for client disk mounts. It had a pair of TU78 (6250 BPI) tape
drives plus two more PDP-11 front ends for WAN DECnet and IBM
communications.
Finally, it had a stack of RA81's for the common file system and
associated CI and STAR connector. I can't remember what we kept on
those; they were not initially all that reliable (neither was the RP07),
come to think of it. I'm probably forgetting something. I would say
all of that shit easily doubled things, so I guess you're talking 50
kilowatts.
CompuServe came up with another power supply which I would assume was a
switcher; it halved the power requirements. They offered to license it
to DEC for free, but apparently DEC didn't take it because it was too
late into the KL product life cycle. I heard of other sites usingit,
but I think you had to have your own internal Field Service personnel.
CMU did that, but I'm not sure if it was for the power supplies.
I once heard of some guy who managed to get a KA10 (just the processor
complex) into his apartment. This was a building that was so old that
it didn't have separate meters for each apartment (!!). While he could
only run it during the winter (with the windows wide open), he didn't
get nailed for the power.
Having once inhabited in an older (WWII) Queens (LIC) apartment, I'm not
sure how he would have done that without melting the wiring, so maybe
this is apocryphal.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/26/23 2:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Bitsavers has some stuff in the pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10 directory,
including EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10/EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf> which
describes the power supply subsystem. That mentions power requirements. Yes, 208 volt
3-phase at 60 amps per phase...
I think those are linear supplies, so they aren't as efficient as
switchers.
paul
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mar 26, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Thomas DeBellis
> <tommytimesharing(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I got asked what the power requirements would have been for 1985
> vintage KL10 based system.
>
> Does anybody know where I would be able to find such information? I
> had thought it was in the site installation guide, but I haven't
> found an online version, yet.
>
> About the only thing I can remember is that it was three phase power
> and that the power supplies were very inefficient.
_______________________________________________
HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se
To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se 
2:40 p.m.
Yeah, that is MAGICA::
Johnny
On 2023-03-27 14:05, Supratim Sanyal wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Mar 26, 2023, at 4:49 PM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt(a)softjar.se> wrote:
We might have been running some other stuff on that power outlet as
well (maybe an 11/70 or so...).
Latest fro Update, via Aaron Jackson at the Discord DEC group -
https://discord.gg/ZMF2TRHE <https://discord.gg/ZMF2TRHE> :)
preview.png
3eaafeb0dc773544
<https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/r7JRkVNRW04uFp_Hf6p6-M8AK2aQiRfNaJL_3js0S1M/https/media.hachyderm.io/media_attachments/files/110/006/170/712/669/613/original/3eaafeb0dc773544.jpeg>
JPEG Image · 501 KB
<https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/r7JRkVNRW04uFp_Hf6p6-M8AK2aQiRfNaJL_3js0S1M/https/media.hachyderm.io/media_attachments/files/110/006/170/712/669/613/original/3eaafeb0dc773544.jpeg>
<https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/r7JRkVNRW04uFp_Hf6p6-M8AK2aQiRfNaJL_3js0S1M/https/media.hachyderm.io/media_attachments/files/110/006/170/712/669/613/original/3eaafeb0dc773544.jpeg>
The power system for the memory was the really bad thing in the KL. It
was a big straight transformer. I had to replace it once, and it was
heavy as hell. No switched stuff in sight for that one.
On 2023-03-26 21:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
_______________________________________________
HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se
To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se Thanks, I had a look; this is 'just' for
the processor complex, so I
have yet to scare up the peripherals.
The first three cabinets are the processor, I/O control, memory and
communications (PDP-11/40 front end) complex. These alone accountfor
21.6 kilowatts. Ouch... Of course, that's without the peripherals.
CU20B had a 3 pack RP06 PS: (boot) structure (email, staff and client
storage) and other executables), an RP07 CU: structure (staff usage),
an RP06 SNARK: structure (Monitor, Exec and Galaxy sources) and a
free RP06 for client disk mounts. It had a pair of TU78 (6250 BPI) tape
drives plus two more PDP-11 front ends for WAN DECnet and IBM
communications.
Finally, it had a stack of RA81's for the common file system and
associated CI and STAR connector. I can't remember what we kepton
those; they were not initially all that reliable (neither was the
RP07), come to think of it. I'm probably forgetting something. I
would say all of that shit easily doubled things, so I guess you're
talking 50 kilowatts.
CompuServe came up with another power supply which I would assume was
a switcher; it halved the power requirements. They offered to
license it to DEC for free, but apparently DEC didn't take it because
it was too late into the KL product life cycle. I heard of other
sites usingit, but I think you had to have your own internal Field
Service personnel. CMU did that, but I'm not sure if it was forthe
power supplies.
I once heard of some guy who managed to get a KA10 (just the
processor complex) into his apartment. This was a building thatwas
so old that
it didn't have separate meters for each apartment (!!). While he
could only run it during the winter (with the windows wide open), he
didn't get nailed for the power.
Having once inhabited in an older (WWII) Queens (LIC) apartment, I'm
not sure how he would have done that without melting the wiring, so
maybe this is apocryphal.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
_______________________________________________
HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se
To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/26/23 2:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Bitsavers has some stuff in the pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10 directory,
including EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf
<http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp10/KL10/EK-PWR20-SD-001_DEC20_PowerSysDescr_Apr76.pdf> which
describes the power supply subsystem. That mentions power requirements. Yes, 208 volt
3-phase at 60 amps per phase...
I think those are linear supplies, so they aren't as efficient as
switchers.
paul
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mar 26, 2023, at 1:11 PM, Thomas DeBellis
> <tommytimesharing(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I got asked what the power requirements would have been for 1985
> vintage KL10 based system.
>
> Does anybody know where I would be able to find such information? I
> had thought it was in the site installation guide, but I haven't
> found an online version, yet.
>
> About the only thing I can remember is that it was three phase
> power and that the power supplies were very inefficient.
_______________________________________________
HECnet mailing list -- hecnet(a)lists.dfupdate.se
To unsubscribe send an email to hecnet-leave(a)lists.dfupdate.se 
26 Mar
26 Mar
11:58 p.m.
On 3/26/23 15:15, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
I once heard of some guy who managed to get a KA10
(just the processor
complex) into his apartment. This was a building that was so old that
it didn't have separate meters for each apartment (!!). While he could
only run it during the winter (with the windows wide open), he didn't
get nailed for the power.
That was Doug Humphrey, my friend, former boss, and former roommate.
He still has the front panel from that machine. He's still around, but
not doing much (if any) vintage computing. I got the last of his KS
hardware many years ago.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
606
days inactive
607
days old
6 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Dave McGuire -
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Supratim Sanyal -
Thomas DeBellis