1 Feb
2022
1 Feb
'22
3:38 a.m.
On 2022-02-01 03:10, Dave McGuire wrote:
Seems you just described exactly what I tried do describe above. So
how did I get it wrong?
What I'm saying is that it's better to do something for the greater
good, than to "play it safe" with some hypothetical "risk" that some
suit at HPE (or whomever) will somehow come after you about decades-old
software that they've never even heard of.
I mean, come on. Yes, the potential consequence is huge, but the
risk is vanishingly small. Yes, it has happened, I'm well aware of
that. But the risk is still vanishingly small.
Dave obviously was *very* worried about potential risks that he was not
willing to take. The amount of papers I had to sign before I got access
should tell you something.
And he have (had?) information I don't have. So I prefer to not second
guess him, but just trust that he made his decisions based on the
information he had, and they made sense for him. And I'll just accept
that, and respect his decisions.
Hmm. Maybe we're talking about something else than PDP-11 software now?
Actually it hasn't come up about PDP-11 software; it was VAX software
most recently.
Ah. Yes. VAX is a different story. There things are still fresh, so it's
a different ballpark.
So I apologize. I was very much PDP-11 focused in my responses.
VAX, in a way, seems to be falling down into the same pit the PDP-11 is
in. But it's far more recent, so a lot of stuff is still around at a
different scale. And of course, VMS as such isn't dead, which is kind of
a different situation as well.
Not even that. It's not too uncommon that I get into some discussion and
people have no clue. This mailing list and environment isn't exactly
representative for people in general out there. Just go check on VCF (or
whatever the name is, I can't even remember - vintage computing
something...)
From my point, it's more that it's so much a club for internal
admiration. People are more interested in their turf than actually
finding information.
Take the ftp site of Update. It's been around since the early 90s.
Still, most people don't know about it. And lots of stuff have been
copied out from there elsewhere, and that's where people find various
bits and pieces.
And a bunch of PDP-8 stuff there are things that I dragged out of
numerous disks and DECtapes I have. Most of it done in the 90s. Some of
it still totally unknown by others.
And various software that I've written as well...
That mostly happens by accident, unless you are in the center.
Who knows when I can do it. I keep hoping... But every year, there will
be fewer interested.
I'll leave that to others. I'm busy just fixing things in RSX...
If someone really interested comes along, I'm happy to help with
information and guidance, but I'm not trying to enlighten people.
Well, we do that a lot at LSSM. In particular, there's a teenage kid
who lives in Michigan who is OBSESSED with PDP-11s. He's writing code
in assembler and running it under simh. He doesn't know this yet, but
the next time his parents bring him down here for a visit, I'm going to
give him a PDP-11/73.
That should be exciting. :-)
Also, will be interesting if it carries over to working on real hardware
as compared to simh.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 1/31/22 8:28 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Yeah. Tell that to their kids when they are thrown into the street.
I do see your point, but it's an increasingly hypothetical point.
That might be. And I probably agree with it. But each person has to do
his own assessment on that point. And it might not look the same for all.
Because for some people, that "near zero
risk" is maybe not so "near
zero", and that have actual implications for actual people.
Yes, but they've been poorly (and selfishly) prioritized. You seem to
really just treat it as "there is no risk, so why aren't
people just doing whatever I think they should do", without
considering that for others the situation might actually look very
different.
You've jumped to a conclusion about what I think, and (with
respect) you're incorrect. I think risking some suit in a glass
building getting angry with me, or even filing a lawsuit against me,
is not, and will never be, more important than a piece of history
that stands to be lost forever. If you've
experienced that recently, then I am a little amazed.
Because that means people have been hanging on to things for a
*long* time, but now they don't care. Which for me sounds like an
unusual situation.
But of course, everything is possible.
Then be amazed. It happened most recently just a few months ago,
and several times last year. This is a lot more common in the real
world than you've assumed. Considering
that I'm usually even more overlooked than you are, you
can go with that complaint somewhere else.
I will (sorry) but everyone who knows what a PDP-11 is knows your
name. ;) Take PDP-8
stuff for example - I've been around the block, done more,
seen more, and have more information and stuff than most everyone on
those lists nowadays. But I don't actually care anymore. They can talk
and do things as much as they want. I don't need them, and they don't
even know I exist. Their problem. Not mine. And since it's also not a
problem for them, it's not a problem at all.
I'm with you on that. But passing knowledge on is important, and far
too few people do it. The excuse I hear most often is "nobody's
interested in this stuff". It's only
a problem when you want attention and recognition.
Or if you just want to be kept in the damn loop once in a while. I'm daily
facing the same dilemma. I have done so much improvements to
RSX. I'd like to release V5.0, which I have sitting here. But I can't.
I signed documents with XX2247 that limits what I can do, and I am not
willing to break the trust Dave put in me. Even though that improved
version have lots of stuff that would be really fun to share.
Instead I'm trying to find ways of resolving the problem. Meanwhile
it's sitting at my place, and nowhere else.
I will run that within *minutes* of its release. Assuming I'm still
breathing, of course! Until the day
I die... Who knows what happens then.
Well, I'm trying to get more (and younger) people interested in
PDP-11s, and I'm having pretty good success at that. You could try
that too.