1 Feb
2022
1 Feb
'22
12:38 a.m.
On 1/31/22 6:25 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Perhaps, but I doubt it. How so?
I'm not speaking in theoretical terms. That exact sentence has been
said TO MY FACE, more than once, by people in conversations about
sending materials to LSSM.
I will happily pass judgment. A hundred years from now, people will
still care about the history of technology, but nobody will care about
that stupid legal BS from one company from a century prior. But then it
will be too late to go back and retrieve the stuff.
NOW, it is not too late, for a lot of it.
Yes, very.
I don't know much about it, and from threads elsewhere I know that
you've looked into it extensively, so yes, you most definitely do know
more about it than I do. From my "don't know the guy personally" and
"wasn't there" perspective, someone bought it and did nothing with it,
and now he's unreachable and it's in limbo.
I deliberately did not read your text below this paragraph until now,
such that I could clearly explain my point of view to you.
Yes, it is
particularly sad. A lot of people are looking at it
very short-sightedly; I've come across a number of people who are
sitting on this or that tape or disk pack, with attitudes that
exacerbate the problem:
Well, you are very much oversimplifying things here... 1.
"Oh, nobody cares about this, despite the fact that you just
told me they do."
That might happen. I'd say it's more likely it happened 20 years ago.
The few people who have hung on to things until now are likely not in
this category. 2.
"This forty-year-old code is copyrighted, screw historical
preservation, I'll err on the side of protecting my personal safety in
this near-zero-risk situation and just sit on it, or destroy it."
How near zero the risk is is a bit unknown, but it might be worse than
you know/think. So don't pass judgement so easily. If someone destroys things, then it's really sad.
But if someone hangs
on to things in the hope that the situation will eventually become
better, or they will at least find some solution that improves the
situation are actually good things.
As long as they make arrangements for it to be preserved when they
can no longer do it, yes, I can agree with that.
The
DECnet-RT distribution is in situation #3, and the source code
for a third-party IP stack and other packages for VMS was lost just
last year because of #2. In the latter instance, LSSM got all of the
development machines, but the drives had been pulled and the guy
refused to give them to us, or even save them himself.
Sad when that happens. I don't
know what happened to Dave Carroll either, but I see no
obituary listings for his name in Colorado Springs. Perhaps he really
did buy it all just to sit on it. If so, that's really crappy.
I do happen to know a bit more about the situation than you, it seems. Yes, Dave bought it all from the remains of Mentec
Inc. The purpose was
to try and make it all available for hobbyists.
However, the contract between DEC and Mentec is poison, and that
contract is still active, with it today being HPE and XX2247. And Dave
was definitely worried about his house and everything with regards to
that contract, which is why it stayed locked down. I did have several
discussions with him about it, and he was having lots of concerns about
what to do, and how to handle the whole thing.
That's absolutely awful, and now I understand the situation a lot
better. It would probably have been beneficial for him to have said
something about this in some forum somewhere, so that people who aren't
"in the cool kids crowd" can know what happened.
So, as with pretty much everything else, the damn suits ruined it.
Four or five years ago, he almost transferred all of
it over to me, but
I didn't jump fast enough, and it remained an open question. Right about
the same time, I started talking with people at VSI who could possibly
help working things out with HPE. But right then, Dave stopped
communicating, and I have not heard a single thing since. And XX2247
seems to have gone defunct, and I do wonder if Dave might have left us,
or something bad happened. But I don't really know. I've also tried
through friends to locate him without success.
I understand. That's just awful. :-( But I'm sure I speak for
everyone here when I say thank you for trying.
I will try to locate him. It's possible that he may be amenable to
an arrangement with a corporate nonprofit entity like LSSM, whose
purpose is to preserve such things, rather than an individual.
But the purpose was to preserve and make the software
available for
everyone. But as of now, it's still not possible because of the contract
between DEC and Mentec. And no, I have not seen that contract. So I
don't know the exact wording of it. And Dave preferred that it was kept
buried, because he felt it was pure poison, and actually better if HPE
was not even reminded of it.
That figures. Damn suits. I sure hope it doesn't die with him,
whenever he goes.
And I have a contract with XX2247, giving me access to
whatever. You
could say that I'm the last RSX developer. :-)
...and it is in excellent hands. :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA