8 Nov
2021
8 Nov
'21
12:40 a.m.
Hi Johnny,
I got the list from the SETNOD that came with PANDA, the DEC version
being _UPD ID= 479, SNARK:<6.UTILITIES>SETHOS.MAC.4,? 10-Feb-84 14:39:12
by EVANS_.? I should note that this list /conflicts/ with what is in
DAPSYM. Since my DAPSYM is from 1980, I thought that SETNOD might take
precedence or otherwise be more 'accurate'.? At least, I didn't remember
the SETNOD one being wrong from the last time I was hacking it.? Just in
case, I double checked and It seems OK; take a look at following tests:
Kermit-20>set line *VENTI2*::
[Remote system is running /TOPS-20/]
Kermit-20>set line *VENTI*::
[Remote system is running /TOPS-10/]
Kermit-20>set line *MIM*::
?/RSX-11M/ type systems do not support Tops-10/20 NRT communications.
Kermit-20>set line *APOLLO*::
?/VMS/ type systems do not support Tops-10/20 NRT communications.
Kermit-20>set line *BITXOT*::
?/RSTS/E/type systems do not support Tops-10/20 NRT communications.
Kermit-20>
Since I've signed on to every system via CTERM except the last, I know
those messages are correct.? I have no id for BITXOT::, but it is
documented to be RSTS/E, so the value 1 there appears correct.? I was
unable to test with the two RT systems that are documented in MIM:: and
am not sure what the reject reason means.
Kermit-20>set line *SEADOG*::
?Connection failure, Reject or Disconnect by Object
Kermit-20>set line *SNOTRA*::
?Connection failure, Reject or Disconnect by Object
Kermit-20>
On the other hand, I don't remember my FAL/NFT/DAP blowing up on the
wrong system, either (they blow up on plenty of other stuff...)? It
would appear that there are _two_ (2) separate lists of system type
bytes, one for NRT and the other for DAP, viz:
? NRT??????????????? DAPSYM
?1??? RSTS????? .OSRT==1??????? ;RT-11
?2??? RT-11???? .OSRST==2?????? ;RSTS/E
?3??? RSTS/E??? .OSRXS==3?????? ;RSX-11S
?4??? RSX-11S?? .OSRXM==4?????? ;RSX-11M
?5??? RSX-11M?? .OSRXD==5?????? ;RSX-11D
?6??? RSX-11D?? .OSIAS==6?????? ;IAS
?7??? IAS?????? .OSVAX==7?????? ;VAX/VMS
?8??? VMS?????? .OSTP20==10???? ;TOPS-20 (^D8)
?9??? TOPS-20?? .OSTP10==11???? ;TOPS-10 (^D9)
10??? TOPS-10?? .OSOS8==12????? ;OS-8 (^D10)
11??? RTS-8???? .OSRXP==13????? ;RSX11-M PLUS (^D11)
12??? OS-8
13??? RSX-11M+
14??? MCB
Does anybody know what the CTERM list would be?? This disparity is
unfortunate.? Any speculations as to how it happened?? I'm thinking
somebody not talking to somebody else, but I really wouldn't have any idea.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 11/7/21 6:17 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Thomas, I'm not sure where you got that list from.
It seems slightly mismatching what I can find. Looking at the NRT code
in RSX (which uses object 23, and is shared by code in RSX for
connecting to both RSTS/E, VMS and Tops-20), I find this:
1? RT-11
2? RSTS/E
3? RSX-11S
4? RSX-11M
5? RSX-11D
6? IAS
7? VMS
Those are the documented values for the configuration message that I
can find.
However, extrapolating from this, in NFT/FAL, there is a much more
extensive list, which seems to align with this list, which contains:
8? TOPS-20
9? Tops-10
10 RTS-8
11 OS/8
12 RSX-11M-PLUS
13 COPOS/11 (TOPS-20 frontend)
14 P/OS
15 VAXELN
16 CP/M
17 MS-DOS
18 Ultrix-32
19 Ultrix-11
20 DTF/MVS
25 Windows NT
26 Linux
Now, Linux is a value I believe I added just based on observation, so
it's much less official. But I think all the other ones are ones DEC
did assign. Unfortunately, I think Windows NT was also added by me,
based on observation of Pathworks. So I do not know what the values
between 20 and 25 could/should be.
But maybe this helps some anyway?
? Johnny
On 2021-11-07 11:23, Thomas DeBellis wrote:
Since its inception, Kermit-20 (one the first
three Kermit
implementations) has had the 'limitation' that it will only talk to a
remote Kermit via a physical terminal line (I.E., something like
TTY6:).? It doesn't do network terminals in part because it has no
code to handle the out-of-band or meta-data that one finds on TVT's
(like IAC's) or CTERM's.
This doesn't exist for the early NRT terminals which were implemented
for Tops-10 and Tops-20.? Once you've read the initial configuration
message and decided what to do, you basically never have to bother
with meta-data.? Because I'm trying to look at an NFT issue between
Tops-10 and Tops-20, I needed another transport mechanism and
modifying Kermit-20 to do DECnet 36 NRT's seemed like an easy hack.?
Since Tops-10 Kermit isn't making an outgoing connection, it is none
the wiser.
Thus far, it has been fairly straightforward.? Right now I'm just
catching the few cases where certain operations don't make sense or
otherwise wouldn't work (like setting the terminal speed). Another
thing I'd like to prevent is Kermit-20 bothering non-36 bit systems.?
This is easily enough done by checking some 'magic' bits in the
initial configuration message and restricting by OS type.? This
raises two questions:
First, is the list below complete?? What about Ultrix and ... what else?
???? ?1??? RSTS ?2??? RT-11 ?3??? RSTS/E ?4??? RSX-11S ?5 RSX-11M
???? ?6??? RSX-11D ?7??? IAS ?8??? VMS ?9??? TOPS-20 10 TOPS-10 11??
??? RTS-8 12??? OS-8 13??? RSX-11M+ 14??? MCB
Second, the configuration isn't well documented.? Actually, I'm not
sure if it's documented, period.? All I have is are some notes that
Johnny wrote up in the process of reverse-engineering it and very
kindly gave me.? They are certainly fine for this particular
implementation, but I was just wondering what else there might be.
Plenty for LAT and CTERM, but I don't think I've stumbled over NRT.