On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Yeah. I'm skimming the Manager's guide (which doesn't actually have the
commands. Seriously. There are blank spaces where the command should be)
I think you've found a scan where anything in red turned invisible. There are other scans of the manuals that are better.
Glad good scans exist! ;)
Ahhhhhhh. That makes much more sense, thanks!
It all makes sense, once you know it. :-)
Yup.
Ahhhhhhhh. I was thinking of it in VMS terms.
Hmm. Terminals are not privileged under VMS, I thought. I though it was users who have various privileges.
I was trying to apply user privilege systems to the terminal stuff. Whoops!
Good thing I've not managed to make the console unprivileged. ;)
Yes. If you make it non-privileged, you will not be able to turn it back to privileged again, since that is a privileged command... :-)
Yeah. ;)
However, by default, the system manager account has the password "SYSTEM" if I remember right. And that leaves you logged in with privileges...
Yup!
Also: it's up!
Event type 4.15, Adjacency up
Occurred 25-MAY-14 10:04:39 on node 9.4 (MANDY)
Circuit QNA-0
Adjacent node = 9.1023 (A9RTR)
...that does not however mean it WORKS.
MOIRA::CSMELOSKY$ set host mandy
%SYSTEM-F-PROTOCOL, network protocol error
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-05-25 15:54, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Why?
I want to use the disk I had the temporary baseline on for other stuff.
No need to waste an entire 520M disk for 20M of networking. ;)
Once you've done the installation, that disk is not needed.
But you could just copy all the files over, preserving the directory structure. Use BRU.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 15:53, Jean-Yves Bernier wrote:
At 9:26 AM +0200 25/5/14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
You mean "the Hardware address is whatever you set in simh before
starting". CEX will set it to "Physical address" (in DECNET parlance)
which is AA-00-04-00-(1024 x area + node).
Uh... Not really. simh do not actually change the MAC address of the
physical interface.
Of course, simh don't do DECnet. Communication EXecutive does.
Right. But the communication executive does it by programming the ethernet interface, which get down to a command into simh...
The simh interface starts out with 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC, but that is
changed to AA-00-04-00-01-28 by DECnet when it starts up, at which
point it no longer listens to 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC. That address is just
kept around as the original hardware address of the simulated network
interface inside simh.
So we have:
Executor node = 10.1 (SHARK)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-01-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC
Executor node = 10.2 (SNAKE)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-02-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC
We still have the question "when two nodes runs on the same host, is SET
XQ MAC" necessary? In other words, does the "Hardware address" play any
role in DECnet, besides just being kept around?
No role at all.
Since it would be pointless to put the same address, i tried
SET XQ MAC==00:00:01:00:00:01/02, then
Executor node = 10.1 (SHARK)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-01-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 00-00-01-00-00-01
Executor node = 10.2 (SNAKE)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-02-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 00-00-01-00-00-02
And I see no difference.
Because it won't any difference. :-)
So, a NIC may have different MAC addresses depending of the network
stack running. Am I right here?
Sortof. Your machine normally do only have one MAC address, but if you
have DECnet running, it will need to change your MAC address. All
other network protocols on your machine will then also use this "new"
MAC address.
If we would run on bare metal. They don't because simh shields it. Maybe
the "Physical address" is kept just for restoring it at shutdown?
Not even that. The physical address is in a PROM on the ethernet card. Any resetting of the bus, and the ethernet card reverts to the address stored in the PROM. (Or whatever you set it to, if we talk about simh.)
Well, my system is working 99%, that's not so bad :)
It is working 100%, you just have performance issues...
Besides playing around, which I admin is awfully fun, the reason for
using DECnet was to transfer big files (tens of megabytes). So I am out
of luck for now, but I haven't said my last word.
Like I said before. I would start by examining various counters on the machines to get more understanding of what the problem is, and then try to solve it from there.
I know that different network interface speeds mess things up, for example, and I have code in my bridge to help get around the problem if the bridge is sitting between the systems.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 15:53, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Heh... Well, you need to know the protection system in RSX...
Yeah. I'm skimming the Manager's guide (which doesn't actually have the
commands. Seriously. There are blank spaces where the command should be)
I think you've found a scan where anything in red turned invisible. There are other scans of the manuals that are better.
File protection is totally unrelated to the terminal privilege status.
File protection comes in four categories.
System - Any access from a group <=10 (octal)
Owner - Should be obvious
Group - Matching group but not member
World - Everybody else
So, in your case, either having a UIC of [131,54] or any system UIC
should have done it. Maybe any member of 131 as well.
[137,10] means you'll fall under the WORLD mask.
Ahhhhhhh. That makes much more sense, thanks!
It all makes sense, once you know it. :-)
The terminal privilege status on the other hand allows you to change
your terminal UIC to anything you want. If you are unprivileged, you
cannot change your UIC.
Ahhhhhhhh. I was thinking of it in VMS terms.
Hmm. Terminals are not privileged under VMS, I thought. I though it was users who have various privileges.
And then, of course, tasks can be installed to run under another UIC
than your terminal UIC...
But installing tasks also requires that your terminal is privileged...
Good thing I've not managed to make the console unprivileged. ;)
Yes. If you make it non-privileged, you will not be able to turn it back to privileged again, since that is a privileged command... :-)
However, by default, the system manager account has the password "SYSTEM" if I remember right. And that leaves you logged in with privileges...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Jean-Yves Bernier wrote:
Well, my system is working 99%, that's not so bad :)
It is working 100%, you just have performance issues...
Besides playing around, which I admin is awfully fun, the reason for using DECnet was to transfer big files (tens of megabytes). So I am out of luck for now, but I haven't said my last word.
Got bored of copying stuff using (virtual) serial, eh? ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Yeah. I followed the install manual. Thought I configured it for an RA81.
The type of size of the disk don't matter. When you restore the tape image to disk, it will use the same parameters as the original disk the back was created from, unless you explicitly override it. And the disk that the installation tape is created from have very few headers, so that a restore is pretty much ensured to succeed no matter what the destination disk might be...
Whoops. By configured I meant to say "defined MAX and HEADERS".
Anyway, yes, what you should have done is specify a non-default for
maximum number of file headers when you restored the original system
to disk using the BRUSYS system.
I THINK I did that...but I was doing so many different installs in SIMH
the past few days I could've been thinking of another one.
Suspect you missed it in the end.
Yeah, I have to have.
Anyways, dropped to BRUSYS and copied from DU0 to DU1 in SIMH and had
everything copied in 30 seconds. Booting MVII cluster node to copy the
new image as we speak.
Good.
Looks like the VAX finished copying the image. Shutting it down now.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Why?
I want to use the disk I had the temporary baseline on for other stuff. No need to waste an entire 520M disk for 20M of networking. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
At 9:26 AM +0200 25/5/14, Johnny Billquist wrote:
You mean "the Hardware address is whatever you set in simh before
starting". CEX will set it to "Physical address" (in DECNET parlance)
which is AA-00-04-00-(1024 x area + node).
Uh... Not really. simh do not actually change the MAC address of the physical interface.
Of course, simh don't do DECnet. Communication EXecutive does.
The simh interface starts out with 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC, but that is changed to AA-00-04-00-01-28 by DECnet when it starts up, at which point it no longer listens to 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC. That address is just kept around as the original hardware address of the simulated network interface inside simh.
So we have:
Executor node = 10.1 (SHARK)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-01-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC
Executor node = 10.2 (SNAKE)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-02-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC
We still have the question "when two nodes runs on the same host, is SET XQ MAC" necessary? In other words, does the "Hardware address" play any role in DECnet, besides just being kept around?
Since it would be pointless to put the same address, i tried
SET XQ MAC==00:00:01:00:00:01/02, then
Executor node = 10.1 (SHARK)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-01-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 00-00-01-00-00-01
Executor node = 10.2 (SNAKE)
Physical address = AA-00-04-00-02-28
Line = QNA-0
Hardware address = 00-00-01-00-00-02
And I see no difference.
So, a NIC may have different MAC addresses depending of the network
stack running. Am I right here?
Sortof. Your machine normally do only have one MAC address, but if you have DECnet running, it will need to change your MAC address. All other network protocols on your machine will then also use this "new" MAC address.
If we would run on bare metal. They don't because simh shields it. Maybe the "Physical address" is kept just for restoring it at shutdown?
Well, my system is working 99%, that's not so bad :)
It is working 100%, you just have performance issues...
Besides playing around, which I admin is awfully fun, the reason for using DECnet was to transfer big files (tens of megabytes). So I am out of luck for now, but I haven't said my last word.
--
Jean-Yves Bernier
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Heh... Well, you need to know the protection system in RSX...
Yeah. I'm skimming the Manager's guide (which doesn't actually have the commands. Seriously. There are blank spaces where the command should be)
File protection is totally unrelated to the terminal privilege status. File protection comes in four categories.
System - Any access from a group <=10 (octal)
Owner - Should be obvious
Group - Matching group but not member
World - Everybody else
So, in your case, either having a UIC of [131,54] or any system UIC should have done it. Maybe any member of 131 as well.
[137,10] means you'll fall under the WORLD mask.
Ahhhhhhh. That makes much more sense, thanks!
The terminal privilege status on the other hand allows you to change your terminal UIC to anything you want. If you are unprivileged, you cannot change your UIC.
Ahhhhhhhh. I was thinking of it in VMS terms.
And then, of course, tasks can be installed to run under another UIC than your terminal UIC...
But installing tasks also requires that your terminal is privileged...
Good thing I've not managed to make the console unprivileged. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-05-25 15:24, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
:-)
Not entirely uncommon that people miss. Did you read the manuals, or
did you just jump? :-)
Yeah. I followed the install manual. Thought I configured it for an RA81.
The type of size of the disk don't matter. When you restore the tape image to disk, it will use the same parameters as the original disk the back was created from, unless you explicitly override it. And the disk that the installation tape is created from have very few headers, so that a restore is pretty much ensured to succeed no matter what the destination disk might be...
Anyway, yes, what you should have done is specify a non-default for
maximum number of file headers when you restored the original system
to disk using the BRUSYS system.
I THINK I did that...but I was doing so many different installs in SIMH
the past few days I could've been thinking of another one.
Suspect you missed it in the end.
Anyways, dropped to BRUSYS and copied from DU0 to DU1 in SIMH and had
everything copied in 30 seconds. Booting MVII cluster node to copy the
new image as we speak.
Good.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 15:22, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-05-25 13:57, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
If only it didn't care about this...
* 04.00 Where is the Network distribution kit loaded [S]: du2:
;
; Error - Distribution kit cannot be a disk kit
Which...seems to disagree with the manual. *grumble*.
Well. What command file are you running? I suspect it's PREGEN, which
you should not run in this case. You should go directly to NETGEN...
Well, first I gotta get the files on the system disk. ;)
Why?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 15:22, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
No. You just have to have the right privileges... :-)
You apparently do not have the right to write to the output directory.
So, the obvious question is what your current UIC is when you do this...
(Think of this as the same thing as effective UID under Unix.)
I had made TT0: privileged. The current UIC at the time was...[137,10].
Should I have been in [1,2]?
Heh... Well, you need to know the protection system in RSX...
File protection is totally unrelated to the terminal privilege status. File protection comes in four categories.
System - Any access from a group <=10 (octal)
Owner - Should be obvious
Group - Matching group but not member
World - Everybody else
So, in your case, either having a UIC of [131,54] or any system UIC should have done it. Maybe any member of 131 as well.
[137,10] means you'll fall under the WORLD mask.
The terminal privilege status on the other hand allows you to change your terminal UIC to anything you want. If you are unprivileged, you cannot change your UIC.
And then, of course, tasks can be installed to run under another UIC than your terminal UIC...
But installing tasks also requires that your terminal is privileged...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 09:44:01AM -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Have fun!
Briefly, after which point I'll likely go back to vi and multiple
terminal windows like usual. :)
Understandable. It's a lot simpler than IDLE.
Looks like RSX does infact idle correctly. It was just user error.
Good to know!
Fun fact: the RSX-11M+ 4.6 baseline up on ftp.trailing-edge is not
infact a /pure/ baseline. ;)
Define not a pure baseline? What needs to be known?
Well, it won't boot on an 11/23 or 11/23+. It also won't initially offer to do AUTOCONFIGURE. It seems an inbetween baseline executive was made before distribution.
Get a real -11, too! ;)
Now that I have space, I should. :)
Enough for an 11/70? ;)
Yes actually. :)
Cool! You've got three-phase service right? :D
A quick search of PDP-11 on craigslist in atlanta doesn't return
anything. Guess I'll have to dig a bit deeper. :)
Perhaps!
-brian
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 09:44:01AM -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
Have fun!
Briefly, after which point I'll likely go back to vi and multiple
terminal windows like usual. :)
Looks like RSX does infact idle correctly. It was just user error.
Good to know!
Fun fact: the RSX-11M+ 4.6 baseline up on ftp.trailing-edge is not
infact a /pure/ baseline. ;)
Define not a pure baseline? What needs to be known?
Get a real -11, too! ;)
Now that I have space, I should. :)
Enough for an 11/70? ;)
Yes actually. :)
A quick search of PDP-11 on craigslist in atlanta doesn't return
anything. Guess I'll have to dig a bit deeper. :)
-brian
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 09:49:54PM -0400, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Are you sure you don't have the entire Monty Python crowd working
inside your setup Brian? Sorry I couldn't resist.
Well, you do know van Rossum named Python partly to honor Monty Python,
right?
Now if only he made robots...;)
We can take a guess then that IDLE is named partly to honor Eric
himself. :)
-brian
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 09:49:54PM -0400, Gregg Levine wrote:
Hello!
Are you sure you don't have the entire Monty Python crowd working
inside your setup Brian? Sorry I couldn't resist.
Well, you do know van Rossum named Python partly to honor Monty Python,
right?
We can take a guess then that IDLE is named partly to honor Eric
himself. :)
-brian
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 09:36:56PM -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
I didn't know that existed until just now! :)
Now you do!
It's not bad, actually. I'll have to play around with it!
Have fun!
Which simulator?
PDP-11 mainly.
Which OS? I seem to have had issues getting it to idle lately...but
let's just say I do some crazy things.
Definitely RSX and RSTS. Maybe RT-11 and possibly BSD?
Looks like RSX does infact idle correctly. It was just user error.
Fun fact: the RSX-11M+ 4.6 baseline up on ftp.trailing-edge is not infact a /pure/ baseline. ;)
After the move I'll be able to power on the Xserve, which means SIMH,
but I'll also be able to power on some actual VAX hardware, so I'll run
VMS on those. :)
Get a real -11, too! ;)
Now that I have space, I should. :)
Enough for an 11/70? ;)
-brian
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 09:36:56PM -0400, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014, Brian Hechinger wrote:
I didn't know that existed until just now! :)
Now you do!
It's not bad, actually. I'll have to play around with it!
Which simulator?
PDP-11 mainly.
Which OS? I seem to have had issues getting it to idle lately...but
let's just say I do some crazy things.
Definitely RSX and RSTS. Maybe RT-11 and possibly BSD?
After the move I'll be able to power on the Xserve, which means SIMH,
but I'll also be able to power on some actual VAX hardware, so I'll run
VMS on those. :)
Get a real -11, too! ;)
Now that I have space, I should. :)
-brian
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
:-)
Not entirely uncommon that people miss. Did you read the manuals, or did you just jump? :-)
Yeah. I followed the install manual. Thought I configured it for an RA81.
Anyway, yes, what you should have done is specify a non-default for maximum number of file headers when you restored the original system to disk using the BRUSYS system.
I THINK I did that...but I was doing so many different installs in SIMH the past few days I could've been thinking of another one.
Anyways, dropped to BRUSYS and copied from DU0 to DU1 in SIMH and had everything copied in 30 seconds. Booting MVII cluster node to copy the new image as we speak.
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2014-05-25 13:57, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
If only it didn't care about this...
* 04.00 Where is the Network distribution kit loaded [S]: du2:
;
; Error - Distribution kit cannot be a disk kit
Which...seems to disagree with the manual. *grumble*.
Well. What command file are you running? I suspect it's PREGEN, which you should not run in this case. You should go directly to NETGEN...
Well, first I gotta get the files on the system disk. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
No. You just have to have the right privileges... :-)
You apparently do not have the right to write to the output directory. So, the obvious question is what your current UIC is when you do this...
(Think of this as the same thing as effective UID under Unix.)
I had made TT0: privileged. The current UIC at the time was...[137,10]. Should I have been in [1,2]?
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Since this is M+...
CON SET DHA VEC xxx
CON SET DHA CSR xxx
CON ONL DHA
should be doable...
Yup. Vector on the DHV11 shouldn't conflict with anything else first, though. ;)
Johnny
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2014-05-25 15:01, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
If only it didn't care about this...
* 04.00 Where is the Network distribution kit loaded [S]: du2:
;
; Error - Distribution kit cannot be a disk kit
Which...seems to disagree with the manual. *grumble*.
DU0: has 889281. blocks free, 87719. blocks used out of 977000.
Largest contiguous space = 478706. blocks
18. file headers are free, 3290. headers used out of 3308.
Well, crap. I must've missed a 0 or something.
:-)
Not entirely uncommon that people miss. Did you read the manuals, or did you just jump? :-)
Anyway, yes, what you should have done is specify a non-default for maximum number of file headers when you restored the original system to disk using the BRUSYS system.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 13:57, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
If only it didn't care about this...
* 04.00 Where is the Network distribution kit loaded [S]: du2:
;
; Error - Distribution kit cannot be a disk kit
Which...seems to disagree with the manual. *grumble*.
Well. What command file are you running? I suspect it's PREGEN, which you should not run in this case. You should go directly to NETGEN...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2014-05-25 13:43, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2014, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Success!
SELECT OPTION : 1
BOOT DRIVE NUMBER <0 TO 7>: 0
BOOT DU0 . ARE YOU SURE? yes
WAIT...
RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6 BL87 256.KW System:"MANDY "
The DHV11 lines are OFFLINE...but the vector is wrong.
dcl copy du2:[131,54]*.* du0:[131,54]
COP -- Open failure on output file
DU0:[131,54]UNAMC.TSK -- Privilege violation
Oh great. I HAVE to do it from tape?!
No. You just have to have the right privileges... :-)
You apparently do not have the right to write to the output directory. So, the obvious question is what your current UIC is when you do this...
(Think of this as the same thing as effective UID under Unix.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
