Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:16:57 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
Could very well be. The problem is that the bridge program cannot exactly feed the ethernet input on the same machine as it is running, nor hear data sent out on the ethernet port of the same machine. That is, unless the hardware will do this for you. Some hardware do, but most don't. So you don't see your own data, which makes it impossible for my bridge program to handle the machine it itself is running on.
Johnny
I think I separated the bridge and linuxDECnet dnetd onto separate NICs so they can see each other...
dnetinfo shows:
The next hop to the nearest area router is node 0.0
Node Cost Hops Next hop to node
1.10 4 1 if0 -> 1.266
1.500 kahea 0 0 lo -> 1.500 kahea
but I don't seem to see any neighbors, so maybe still not right.
That table looks so wrong that it's horrible. :-)
I don't even dare guessing exactly what is wrong at your end...
Johnny
Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:16:57 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:00:35 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
So, obviously my iptables ain't blocking DECnet,
so it's a mystery why I can only see:
pc:/etc# cat /proc/net/decnet_neigh
Addr Flags State Use Blksize Dev
1.500 --- 40 01 0001498 eth0
1.10 --- 40 01 0016434 lo
Aloha, Angela
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
Could very well be. The problem is that the bridge program cannot exactly feed the ethernet input on the same machine as it is running, nor hear data sent out on the ethernet port of the same machine. That is, unless the hardware will do this for you. Some hardware do, but most don't. So you don't see your own data, which makes it impossible for my bridge program to handle the machine it itself is running on.
Johnny
I have a router on the LAN, so could it all be configured to use that to bounce packets right back?
I take it most internet routers aren't going to route UDP/700?
which is why the bridge program vs sending raw DECNET UCP/700?
I doubt that your router is DECnet aware, so how would you do it? Bounce back *all* ethernet packets you see? I don't think that's a good idea.
Also, it is very important that the source and destination MAC addresses are left untouched for DECnet to be happy. So that needs to be insured as well.
The last question confused me. What do you mean? Of course internet is routing UDP traffic, no matter what port is used.
DECnet itself isn't an IP protocol, which is why it isn't routed by an internet router. There is no UDP or TCP in DECnet. DECnet is something totally different. What multinet do is pack the DECnet packet inside an UDP/IP packet for transport to the other multinet machine, over the internet.
Johnny
gerry77 at mail.com wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:28:20 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
After a bit of communication with a list member off-list, it seems that my dynamic IP address scenario is going to throw a wrench into the works regarding getting on to HECNet. Would someone know of a dynamic-address friendly method?
What about http://decnet.ipv7.net/files/decnet-bridge_0.7-4.tar.gz ? :-P
See our source,
G. :-)
That's one option, definitely.
A few things should perhaps be pointed out. The config file is not compatible with my bridge program, so people who change need to be aware that they have to modify that.
Also, name lookups can take time, and meanwhile the bridge is stopped. If someone have a seriously bad setup dns, this could means hanging the bridge for half a minute per such host (or more). It also increases the possibilities of cracking. (If someone really is worried about that :-) .
But it do increase the usability if you have dynamic addressed, as well as making it a bit more convenient. :-)
Johnny
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Here s an updated node listing with some of the recent additions. If any
are missing or incorrect, let me know the details and I ll update the list.
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/DCN%20Node%20List.pdf
Can you add 3.34 ROOSTA (simh VAX/VMS 7.2) to that please ? I'll make
that my backup router (and possibly) multinet node.
Thanks,
Chrissie
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
I'm not sure if my IP address changes or not, but if you're willing we
can try setting it up and see if things work :)
Your IP address is between you and your ISP (and whatever other routers and networking hardware you have at your site). Multinet has to be configured to play correctly with all of that, but that's all up to you.
Have you tested your Multinet installation to be sure it's working ? I.e. can you ping google.com?
And have you configured your DECnet already? What did you use for a node name and address?
Bob
I have tested Multinet and can ping google. According to my roommate,
our IP hasn't changed in months; it may change when we move in a
couple weeks but it'll probably stay the same afterward.
I have not set up DECnet yet, since I figured there would be some
coordination necessary. My node name is/will be LOKI (that's already
the machine name) but I don't have an address yet.
John
--
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
I'm not sure if my IP address changes or not, but if you're willing we
can try setting it up and see if things work :)
Your IP address is between you and your ISP (and whatever other routers and networking hardware you have at your site). Multinet has to be configured to play correctly with all of that, but that's all up to you.
Have you tested your Multinet installation to be sure it's working ? I.e. can you ping google.com?
And have you configured your DECnet already? What did you use for a node name and address?
Bob
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
John Floren [slawmaster at gmail.com] wrote:
I'd be interested in connecting my Alphastation with Multinet, if
possible. I've got cable internet and all my machines are behind a
router... pointers and directions would be appreciated!
We don't have a guide to doing this; perhaps if I talk you thru it you'll write one for us.
The first step is to download and install Multinet -
http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html
Bob
Multinet downloaded and installed, Captain!
I'm not sure if my IP address changes or not, but if you're willing we
can try setting it up and see if things work :)
John
--
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
http://www.avanthar.com:8080/nodes/
seems to not be working to list currently active HECnet nodes.
Assuming you have a VMS, RSX or RSTS system AND your node is a routing
node (and your local node database is up to date), you can do
NCP SHOW ACTIVE NODES
to see the nodes that are adjacent to you. You can also do
NCP SHOW KNOWN NODES
to see the up/down (reachable or unreachable) status of every node.
Unfortunately if your node is NOT a routing node then this won't tell you
anything useful. BUT, don't despair - in that case you can ask your
favorite routing node to tell you. On your machine you can say -
NCP TELL LEGATO SHOW KNOWN NODES
and this will actually send the command from your node to NML ("Network
Management Listener") on LEGATO to be executed. You'll see the nodes that
LEGATO thinks are currently up. This will work on any target node where the
owner has been kind enough to enable the default DECnet account, e.g. MIM,
and probably most others too.
Bob
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Your safest bet would be to either re-do the VMS install, this time w/o
UCX, or try uninstalling UCX first.
I'm going to try uninstalling UCX. I've done too much configuring and customizing on this puppy to reinstall OpenVMS. :)
Fred
pardon this question but will installing Multinet "upgrade" me
from HP TCP/IP or will it work in conjunction
I've never tried installing both at the same time, but I doubt that
they'll be happy together.
Usually, I just never install UCX (aka HP TCP/IP services for VMS) when
I'm planning to use Multinet.
Your safest bet would be to either re-do the VMS install, this time w/o
UCX, or try uninstalling UCX first.
Bob
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Bob Armstrong wrote:
The first step is to download and install Multinet -
http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html
Speaking of Multinet, I've got my Hobbyist License and /register'ed it and /load'ed it. Got the savesets in a directory ready to install, but I thought of something - probably should do this from the console, and in addition - pardon this question but will installing Multinet "upgrade" me from HP TCP/IP or will it work in conjunction? I've never been on this side of OpenVMS before, normally I just run the system that's already been prepared for me on the application side ... :-/
Cheers,
Fred
John Floren [slawmaster at gmail.com] wrote:
I'd be interested in connecting my Alphastation with Multinet, if
possible. I've got cable internet and all my machines are behind a
router... pointers and directions would be appreciated!
We don't have a guide to doing this; perhaps if I talk you thru it you'll write one for us.
The first step is to download and install Multinet -
http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html
Bob
http://www.avanthar.com:8080/nodes/
seems to not be working to list currently active HECnet nodes.
My area router is down, and as I am getting ready to move, I think it will
be a minimum of 2-4 weeks before I get it back online. It went down due to
"screaming bearings". It is a VAXstation 4000/vlc, and I'll likely look
into ways to quiet it down and set things up so I can swap in either a
VAXstation 4000/60 or /90.
Though I should see if it has sat long enough to quiet down... As crazy as
it might sound, it fixed itself the last time.
Zane
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:16:57 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
Could very well be. The problem is that the bridge program cannot
exactly feed the ethernet input on the same machine as it is running,
nor hear data sent out on the ethernet port of the same machine. That
is, unless the hardware will do this for you. Some hardware do, but most
don't. So you don't see your own data, which makes it impossible for my
bridge program to handle the machine it itself is running on.
Johnny
I think I separated the bridge and linuxDECnet dnetd
onto separate NICs so they can see each other...
dnetinfo shows:
The next hop to the nearest area router is node 0.0
Node Cost Hops Next hop to node
1.10 4 1 if0 -> 1.266
1.500 kahea 0 0 lo -> 1.500 kahea
but I don't seem to see any neighbors, so maybe still not right.
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Bob Armstrong <bob at jfcl.com> wrote:
Fred wrote:
that is runinng DECNet over IP
that could allow me onto the network.
There are several ways to do DECnet over IP, including Multinet, Johnny's
bridge program, certain models of Cisco routers, and Linux DECnet, plus
maybe more that I don't know about. Unfortunately none of them are really
compatible, so you'll have to say which one you want to use before we can
help.
If you're using Multinet, then I'll be glad to connect you.
BTW, I notice your "dyndns" address - most of these aren't really usable
unless you have a static IP. All these connection methods are based on
actual IPs and not DNS entries, so anytime your dynamic IP changed the guy
at the other end of your tunnel would have to reconfigure your connection.
That gets old pretty fast.
Bob
I'd be interested in connecting my Alphastation with Multinet, if
possible. I've got cable internet and all my machines are behind a
router... pointers and directions would be appreciated!
John
--
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
http://www.avanthar.com:8080/nodes/
seems to not be working to list currently active HECnet nodes.
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:16:57 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:00:35 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
So, obviously my iptables ain't blocking DECnet,
so it's a mystery why I can only see:
pc:/etc# cat /proc/net/decnet_neigh
Addr Flags State Use Blksize Dev
1.500 --- 40 01 0001498 eth0
1.10 --- 40 01 0016434 lo
Aloha, Angela
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
Could very well be. The problem is that the bridge program cannot
exactly feed the ethernet input on the same machine as it is running,
nor hear data sent out on the ethernet port of the same machine. That
is, unless the hardware will do this for you. Some hardware do, but most
don't. So you don't see your own data, which makes it impossible for my
bridge program to handle the machine it itself is running on.
Johnny
I have a router on the LAN, so could it all be configured
to use that to bounce packets right back?
I take it most internet routers aren't going to route UDP/700?
which is why the bridge program vs sending raw DECNET UCP/700?
Aloha, Angela
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
Address Name Machine Location
1.400 GORVAX SIMH-VAX London
1.401 CHIMPY AlphaServer 800 London
1.402 CHIMP AlphaServer 4100 (Probably Kirkkonummi, Finland, not active right now)
Sampsa
On 20 Aug 2008, at 18:50, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Here s an updated node listing with some of the recent additions. If any
are missing or incorrect, let me know the details and I ll update the list.
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/DCN%20Node%20List.pdf
Bob
Angela Kahealani wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:00:35 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
So, obviously my iptables ain't blocking DECnet,
so it's a mystery why I can only see:
pc:/etc# cat /proc/net/decnet_neigh
Addr Flags State Use Blksize Dev
1.500 --- 40 01 0001498 eth0
1.10 --- 40 01 0016434 lo
Aloha, Angela
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
Could very well be. The problem is that the bridge program cannot exactly feed the ethernet input on the same machine as it is running, nor hear data sent out on the ethernet port of the same machine. That is, unless the hardware will do this for you. Some hardware do, but most don't. So you don't see your own data, which makes it impossible for my bridge program to handle the machine it itself is running on.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist wrote:
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Here s an updated node listing with some of the recent additions. If any
are missing or incorrect, let me know the details and I ll update the list.
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/DCN%20Node%20List.pdf
Hmm. BEA is 1.19, not 1.20.
1.20 is KNASE. Another PDP-11/70 running RSX.
Oh, and PAMINA is actually running T20 V7.1...
Johnny
On Wed, 2008-08-20 08:00:35 Johnny Billquist wrote:
Angela Kahealani wrote:
So, obviously my iptables ain't blocking DECnet,
so it's a mystery why I can only see:
pc:/etc# cat /proc/net/decnet_neigh
Addr Flags State Use Blksize Dev
1.500 --- 40 01 0001498 eth0
1.10 --- 40 01 0016434 lo
Aloha, Angela
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
Yes, is that a problem?
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
On Wed, 2008-08-20 07:50:04 Bob Armstrong wrote:
www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/DCN%20Node%20List.pdf
here are further details:
Address Name Owner eMail Hardware OS Location Notes
1.500 KAHEA Angela Kahealani angela at kahealani.com AMD Athlon 64x2 Kubuntu Gutsy Kauai, HI, USA DECnet for Linux
1.501 LANI Angela Kahealani angela at kahealani.com KLH10 emulation Panda TOPS-20 Kauai, HI, USA working on installing
--
"(I'll) Be Seeing You..." All information and transactions are
private between the parties, and are non negotiable. All rights
reserve without prejudice, Angela Kahealani. http://kahealani.com
Angela Kahealani wrote:
So, obviously my iptables ain't blocking DECnet,
so it's a mystery why I can only see:
pc:/etc# cat /proc/net/decnet_neigh
Addr Flags State Use Blksize Dev
1.500 --- 40 01 0001498 eth0
1.10 --- 40 01 0016434 lo
Aloha, Angela
Hmm. Is this the same machine as is running the bridge?
Johnny
