This works GREAT as well. STRGTE is a P3, 667MHz running NetBSD/SIMH and the
VS3900 ka655x.bin.
-Steve
You can always run SIMH of course of another box...
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 23:40, Mark Wickens wrote:
On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 15:29 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV
area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power
requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000
with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not,
the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC
Document.
Zane
My power consumption page might help a bit:
http://lakesdev.blogspot.com/2008/09/power-consumption-of-computers-and.html
The VAXstation 4000/VLC takes the lowest power but at about 6 VUPS
it is
quite slow. The 4000/60 and 4000/90 (BUBBLE) take about 100 Watts,
which
is twice as much, but are *so* much more usable.
In terms of alpha, the lowest power I've found so far is the
Alphaserver
300 4/266 (TIGER) which clocks at about 100 watts. The Alphaserver
1000A
runs at about 180 watts which is pretty good given the expansion
possibilities (it has a BA356 8 drive enclosure built in).
I'm currently running a BUBBLE and TIGER 24/7 which is a VAX and Alpha
node for 200 watts total.
Mark.
Well...
My VAXstation 4000 VLC is quite fast! A little planning and some tuning and
away you go. The Multinet Gateway here is a VS4000/VLC. It does have 24MB
of memory - highly recommended and, 1.28GB of disk space for a system disk.
It's also one of the quietest VAXen I have ever dealt with.
The other VS4K/VLC is my workstation. It runs DW-MOTIF at a fairly good clip.
I have no complaints and you can't beat the size and the lack of heat produced!
-Steve
On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 15:29 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
My power consumption page might help a bit:
http://lakesdev.blogspot.com/2008/09/power-consumption-of-computers-and.html
The VAXstation 4000/VLC takes the lowest power but at about 6 VUPS it is
quite slow. The 4000/60 and 4000/90 (BUBBLE) take about 100 Watts, which
is twice as much, but are *so* much more usable.
In terms of alpha, the lowest power I've found so far is the Alphaserver
300 4/266 (TIGER) which clocks at about 100 watts. The Alphaserver 1000A
runs at about 180 watts which is pretty good given the expansion
possibilities (it has a BA356 8 drive enclosure built in).
I'm currently running a BUBBLE and TIGER 24/7 which is a VAX and Alpha
node for 200 watts total.
Mark.
I don't think you can blame HP for that. It was something DEC already said from the start.
I think the main reason for this was that DEC wanted everyone to move over to Phase V, as they were moving to Alphas.
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
Zane,
While HP says they do not support Alpha's as area routers it works just fine.
Bob Armstrong runs CHARON:: (an Alpha) as an area router. I suspect that HP
did this to encourage migration to IA64, and thus kill off Alpha even sooner.
-Steve
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Mark Wickens wrote:
Folks
I've just finished configuring my Alphaserver 300 4/266 running Digital
Unix 4.0G to be on HECnet via DECNET/OSI basic configuration. I don't
know whether there are other Digital Unix systems out there! The new
node is 1.258, TIGER, requiring a node list update to find.
Next step is to install the Mailbus 400 SMTP Gateway...
Nice!
Does anyone have DECnet for Ultrix around? I have Ultrix 4.5 here, but
no DECnet... :-)
Known OSes on HECnet:
RSX
VMS
P/OS
TOPS-20
RSTS/E
OSF/1
Linux
Windows
Missing (as far as I know):
Ultrix
TOPS-10 (could it even connect to DECnet?)
RT-11
RTS/8 (doubtful if possible, supposedly only supported phase II)
(MAC)
(SUN/OS)
(Genera)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Correct. Only VAX support Area routing. Alphas support level 1 routing
only. And unless I misremember, the same applies to Phase V. Level 1
routing only.
That said, I don't know if there might be some magic trick to get an
Alpha to do area routing anyway, even though it's not supported...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Zane,
While HP says they do not support Alpha's as area routers it works just fine.
Bob Armstrong runs CHARON:: (an Alpha) as an area router. I suspect that HP
did this to encourage migration to IA64, and thus kill off Alpha even sooner.
-Steve
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
You can always run SIMH of course of another box...
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 23:40, Mark Wickens wrote:
On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 15:29 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
My power consumption page might help a bit:
http://lakesdev.blogspot.com/2008/09/power-consumption-of-computers-and.html
The VAXstation 4000/VLC takes the lowest power but at about 6 VUPS it is
quite slow. The 4000/60 and 4000/90 (BUBBLE) take about 100 Watts, which
is twice as much, but are *so* much more usable.
In terms of alpha, the lowest power I've found so far is the Alphaserver
300 4/266 (TIGER) which clocks at about 100 watts. The Alphaserver 1000A
runs at about 180 watts which is pretty good given the expansion
possibilities (it has a BA356 8 drive enclosure built in).
I'm currently running a BUBBLE and TIGER 24/7 which is a VAX and Alpha
node for 200 watts total.
Mark.
On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 15:29 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
My power consumption page might help a bit:
http://lakesdev.blogspot.com/2008/09/power-consumption-of-computers-and.html
The VAXstation 4000/VLC takes the lowest power but at about 6 VUPS it is
quite slow. The 4000/60 and 4000/90 (BUBBLE) take about 100 Watts, which
is twice as much, but are *so* much more usable.
In terms of alpha, the lowest power I've found so far is the Alphaserver
300 4/266 (TIGER) which clocks at about 100 watts. The Alphaserver 1000A
runs at about 180 watts which is pretty good given the expansion
possibilities (it has a BA356 8 drive enclosure built in).
I'm currently running a BUBBLE and TIGER 24/7 which is a VAX and Alpha
node for 200 watts total.
Mark.
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
It's been ages, but I didn't think this was a requirement. A quick Google check found this article - http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/wiz_5081.html - which does say that a VAX is required. It mentions DECnet Phase V routing supporting "host-based routing".
As an aside, the only VAX routing requirement that I did remember was that MRGATE, the Message Router gateway product, was VAX only, so for those systems running Message Router with Alphas, they'd have to keep a VAX around to get their content out. Back in those days, I worked at Innosoft and we had a product, PMDF-MR, which allowed for e-mail gatewaying to Message Router without requiring a VAX since we emulated MRGATE.
--Marc
Am I remembering correctly that in order to have a DECnet Phase IV area
router you need to be running a VAX?
Can Phase V act as an area router?
I'm contemplating figuring out what Alpha has the lowest power requirements,
and bringing it online in place of MONK (a very power hungry XP1000 with
plenty of external drives).
Then again a VAX would probably pull even less. Believe it or not, the
"killer app" that I'm having a hard time living without is DEC Document.
Zane
Folks
I've just finished configuring my Alphaserver 300 4/266 running Digital
Unix 4.0G to be on HECnet via DECNET/OSI basic configuration. I don't
know whether there are other Digital Unix systems out there! The new
node is 1.258, TIGER, requiring a node list update to find.
Next step is to install the Mailbus 400 SMTP Gateway...
Regards, Mark.
I probably should have pointed out that if you have multiple machines then you can make one responsible for using this procedure and all others acquiring their updates from that updated machine. Just change the "MIM" in the procedure to your local machine that was updated using MIM. Distributed is *the* way to go here. No need to beat on MIM. MIM has been very good to all of us!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Fri 6/4/2010 10:52
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Network nodename database procedure available
I say we all run it at EXACTLY the same time, see if we can crash MIM
on a weekly basis too :)
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 15:48, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have written a quick (and dirty) little procedure to update the
network database on VMS platforms. This procedure (a batch job),
will acquire the latest database from MIM:: on a weekly basis.
The procedure is located at MIM::[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM (thanks
Johnny). I will update it from time-to-time as necessary and re-
post that fact here.
I would store this procedure in a "common" place (ie SYS$COMMON:
[SYSMGR]) or if you have it, a dedicated area that you already store
command/batch job procedures (files). Pick a time and then run it
as a normal command procedure. It is self-submitting so it will
happily re-submit as part of the procedure. The procedure makes two
assumptions: First that the batch queue you will be using is SYS
$BATCH, and second that you want the update to occur on a weekly
basis. You are of course free to change either.
As always, please review any file that is submitted before
committing to execute it, and if you have questions just ask.
Regards,
-Steve
If you manage to crash MIM, it is because of bugs in various places, not because of overloading...
RSX itself is normally stable as a rock. :-)
And so is E11 (if I wasn't running the experimental 11/74 stuff...).
Johnny
Sampsa Laine wrote:
I say we all run it at EXACTLY the same time, see if we can crash MIM on a weekly basis too :)
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 15:48, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have written a quick (and dirty) little procedure to update the network database on VMS platforms. This procedure (a batch job), will acquire the latest database from MIM:: on a weekly basis.
The procedure is located at MIM::[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM (thanks Johnny). I will update it from time-to-time as necessary and re-post that fact here.
I would store this procedure in a "common" place (ie SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]) or if you have it, a dedicated area that you already store command/batch job procedures (files). Pick a time and then run it as a normal command procedure. It is self-submitting so it will happily re-submit as part of the procedure. The procedure makes two assumptions: First that the batch queue you will be using is SYS$BATCH, and second that you want the update to occur on a weekly basis. You are of course free to change either.
As always, please review any file that is submitted before committing to execute it, and if you have questions just ask.
Regards,
-Steve
My next version might add in a random delay to prevent such a problem. I was thinking about that after seeing some of the previous mail... :-)
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE on behalf of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Fri 6/4/2010 10:52
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Network nodename database procedure available
I say we all run it at EXACTLY the same time, see if we can crash MIM
on a weekly basis too :)
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 15:48, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have written a quick (and dirty) little procedure to update the
network database on VMS platforms. This procedure (a batch job),
will acquire the latest database from MIM:: on a weekly basis.
The procedure is located at MIM::[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM (thanks
Johnny). I will update it from time-to-time as necessary and re-
post that fact here.
I would store this procedure in a "common" place (ie SYS$COMMON:
[SYSMGR]) or if you have it, a dedicated area that you already store
command/batch job procedures (files). Pick a time and then run it
as a normal command procedure. It is self-submitting so it will
happily re-submit as part of the procedure. The procedure makes two
assumptions: First that the batch queue you will be using is SYS
$BATCH, and second that you want the update to occur on a weekly
basis. You are of course free to change either.
As always, please review any file that is submitted before
committing to execute it, and if you have questions just ask.
Regards,
-Steve
I say we all run it at EXACTLY the same time, see if we can crash MIM on a weekly basis too :)
Sampsa
On 4 Jun 2010, at 15:48, Steve Davidson wrote:
I have written a quick (and dirty) little procedure to update the network database on VMS platforms. This procedure (a batch job), will acquire the latest database from MIM:: on a weekly basis. The procedure is located at MIM::[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM (thanks Johnny). I will update it from time-to-time as necessary and re-post that fact here. I would store this procedure in a "common" place (ie SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]) or if you have it, a dedicated area that you already store command/batch job procedures (files). Pick a time and then run it as a normal command procedure. It is self-submitting so it will happily re-submit as part of the procedure. The procedure makes two assumptions: First that the batch queue you will be using is SYS$BATCH, and second that you want the update to occur on a weekly basis. You are of course free to change either. As always, please review any file that is submitted before committing to execute it, and if you have questions just ask. Regards, -Steve
I should just point out that the location is actually
MIM::US:[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM
however, US:[DECNET] is the default device and directory for anonymous access to MIM:: anyway, so you can skip those parts. :-)
Johnny
Steve Davidson wrote:
I have written a quick (and dirty) little procedure to update the network database on VMS platforms. This procedure (a batch job), will acquire the latest database from MIM:: on a weekly basis.
The procedure is located at MIM::[DECNET]NETUPDATE.COM (thanks Johnny). I will update it from time-to-time as necessary and re-post that fact here.
I would store this procedure in a "common" place (ie SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]) or if you have it, a dedicated area that you already store command/batch job procedures (files). Pick a time and then run it as a normal command procedure. It is self-submitting so it will happily re-submit as part of the procedure. The procedure makes two assumptions: First that the batch queue you will be using is SYS$BATCH, and second that you want the update to occur on a weekly basis. You are of course free to change either.
As always, please review any file that is submitted before committing to execute it, and if you have questions just ask.
Regards,
-Steve
call me...
603.791.0267
-Steve
Steve told me to take it down, something about loops. Does it need to
be up?
Sampsa
On 3 Jun 2010, at 14:52, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sampsa -
Do you know why the Multinet link from CHARON to GORVAX is down?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf
Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:42 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Site renumbering (new area 8) + bits and bobs
Guys,
We (well mostly Steve D) today did a renumbering exercise on my
systems (CHIMPY, RHESUS, GORVAX and FIDOGW) into a new area, 8.
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be
able to reach my site.
Also, because of the renumbering, MIM is no longer getting annoying
error messages so I am running the phone directory poller again, it's
at http://rhesus.sampsa.com/hecnetdir.html
Sampsa
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Ooops. MIM just crashed... Rebooting now...
RSX must have a limit on the number of simultaneous NCP COPY KNOWN NODES
commands :-)
By the way, as a more literal answer (I'm totally ignoring the smiley, as I hope you note... :-) )
.ncp sho obj 19
Object summary as of 3-JUN-10 16:15:43
Object Name Copies User Verification
19 NIC$$$ 5 Default Inspect
.
So, there is a limit, and it's 5... (Yes, I could change it, but I don't think I need to.)
Johnny
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Ooops. MIM just crashed... Rebooting now...
RSX must have a limit on the number of simultaneous NCP COPY KNOWN NODES
commands :-)
More likely is the rather odd and experimental type of system MIM is, being an emulated PDP-11/74 multiprocessor system... (I use it to help debugging Wilsons E11 11/74 emulation, and there are some bugs still around somewhere...)
Johnny
I see. He didn't mention that to me.
Sorry - I tried to answer your phone call, but it fails because CHARON
doesn't have the right address for CHIMPY.
Actually, yes, I'd like to have the link to GORVAX as a redundant route to
the rest of the nodes. There's no problem with redundant routes using
Multinet point to point links - DECnet will just pick the path with the
least cost to the destination and ignore the others. If the least cost path
goes down, then DECnet will pick the new least cost path, whatever that
might be.
There are, OTOH, issues with creating loops using the bridge program, but
that has nothing to do with Multinet.
BTW, who is Steve and how come he's setting himself up as the central
routing hub for HECnet? In general I'm not comfortable with any
architecture that has a single point of failure, no matter how many machines
and how much bandwidth he may have.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Sampsa Laine [mailto:sampsa at mac.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:53 AM
To: bob at jfcl.com
Cc: Steve Davidson
Subject: Re: [HECnet] Site renumbering (new area 8) + bits and bobs
Steve told me to take it down, something about loops. Does it need to
be up?
Sampsa
On 3 Jun 2010, at 14:52, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sampsa -
Do you know why the Multinet link from CHARON to GORVAX is down?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE]
On Behalf
Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:42 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Site renumbering (new area 8) + bits and bobs
Guys,
We (well mostly Steve D) today did a renumbering exercise on my
systems (CHIMPY, RHESUS, GORVAX and FIDOGW) into a new area, 8.
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be
able to reach my site.
Also, because of the renumbering, MIM is no longer getting annoying
error messages so I am running the phone directory poller again, it's
at http://rhesus.sampsa.com/hecnetdir.html
Sampsa
Hi.
Bob Armstrong wrote:
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be able to reach my site.
Hmmm - I can't talk to MIM this morning. I can reach PONDUS, 1.15, which
is the adjacent routing node in area 1, but not MIM. Is MIM still 1.13??
Yes. However...
Ooops. MIM just crashed... Rebooting now...
Johnny
Yeah I can't see MIM either - but I can see you.
Maybe MIM is down or something?
Sampsa
On 3 Jun 2010, at 14:55, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be
able to reach my site.
Hmmm - I can't talk to MIM this morning. I can reach PONDUS, 1.15, which
is the adjacent routing node in area 1, but not MIM. Is MIM still 1.13??
Bob
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be
able to reach my site.
Hmmm - I can't talk to MIM this morning. I can reach PONDUS, 1.15, which
is the adjacent routing node in area 1, but not MIM. Is MIM still 1.13??
Bob
Steve told me to take it down, something about loops. Does it need to be up?
Sampsa
On 3 Jun 2010, at 14:52, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Sampsa -
Do you know why the Multinet link from CHARON to GORVAX is down?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
Of Sampsa Laine
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:42 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: [HECnet] Site renumbering (new area 8) + bits and bobs
Guys,
We (well mostly Steve D) today did a renumbering exercise on my
systems (CHIMPY, RHESUS, GORVAX and FIDOGW) into a new area, 8.
Please be sure to pull a new node database off MIM to continue to be
able to reach my site.
Also, because of the renumbering, MIM is no longer getting annoying
error messages so I am running the phone directory poller again, it's
at http://rhesus.sampsa.com/hecnetdir.html
Sampsa
