On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Peter Lothberg wrote:
Put the Panda20 monitor on it ans se if it boots.=20
Getting that on there will be a bit of a challenge however.
The MRC's Panda distribution that runs under the KLH-10 emulator,
configure a tape drive to write to file. Make yourself a completek
boot/distribution tape. Write it to you SCSI tape drive, Johnny had a
program. Put the drive on the SC-40 and tell ot to boot from the tape.
Does the permissions system implement any special locking requiring me to drop to mini-EXEC from tape to backup the PS?
SCSI tape is identified with a response to SCSI INQUIRY (or is it INQUIRE?) correct? Does the NSP implement a command to list the devices on a specific SCSI channel? I THINK I boot from tape by setting source to the tape drive?
I would do this with a copy of your boot-disk, as I don't remember how
the console processor file-system got there.. Think it's simular to
how it's done on a KS2020. (A file with the FE system and a pointer in
the home-block).
Yeah, obviously I'll be making a copy. ;)
-P
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Put the Panda20 monitor on it ans se if it boots.=20
Getting that on there will be a bit of a challenge however.
The MRC's Panda distribution that runs under the KLH-10 emulator,
configure a tape drive to write to file. Make yourself a completek
boot/distribution tape. Write it to you SCSI tape drive, Johnny had a
program. Put the drive on the SC-40 and tell ot to boot from the tape.
I would do this with a copy of your boot-disk, as I don't remember how
the console processor file-system got there.. Think it's simular to
how it's done on a KS2020. (A file with the FE system and a pointer in
the home-block).
-P
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 14, 2015, at 02:17, Peter Lothberg <roll at Stupi.SE> wrote:
Interesting that it's brought out to RJ45 connectors though!
I thought copper FDDI was a mini-DIN? Was that a Cisco-specific
implementation?
The DIN connector is to control the bypass. CDDI is a RJ45 connector.
Ahhhhh.
(And 100M ended up using a very simular line encoding)
Thanks, that helps.
The DFxxx are KL10 cpu diagnostics, BIN are code for the chanel-cpu's
Glad I have diagnostics at least, if they are just KL10 diags there should
be a DEC reference of what diag = what.
Yes; xxKAA is the basic instruction test for a PDP10, DBKAA for
example runs on a KI10...
Thanks.
In you directory there is no operating system, it can still be on the
the disk in the OS file-system, but you need to teach the boot to look
at that drive..
Good thing EDDT works!
...no idea how to break back to NSP though...or anything about the
bootloader.
Control \
Thanks.
Do you have more than 1 drive?
No, my disk bays were empty.
Disk bay? Take another picture, please.
External CompuServe-manufactured enclosures. SCSI string with connectors, don't have the cable for connecting to distribution panel though.
As those are just 512-byte-sector ones I believe you said...those are easy
enough to image. I'd just need to give Gerry a ring so I can swing by
with a VAX or something that'll accept a SCSI drive.
Does the microcode/boot drive operate as a MASSBUS emulator, or is it also
SCSI brought out directly? (That one would POSSIBLY be documented
though...unlike the other stuff. So TOPS-20 could be made to work on
that)
Kindof... There are several operating modes, Standard T10, Standard
T20, 25 bit physical address T10, 30 Bit virtual adress Tops20.
That's very helpful, would be a good starting point.
Unless there is something special with the CS boxes, it will start off
pretending to be a normal KL10-B-E with masbuss..
Okay. Thanks for the info.
Put the Panda20 monitor on it ans se if it boots.
Getting that on there will be a bit of a challenge however.
Need to get a compatible tape drive so I can do anything real.
basically any SCSI tape works, a DLT, A DAT a 9trk....
That's easy enough to do then. Just need to find a working drive.
-P
Interesting that it's brought out to RJ45 connectors though!
I thought copper FDDI was a mini-DIN? Was that a Cisco-specific
implementation?
The DIN connector is to control the bypass. CDDI is a RJ45 connector.
(And 100M ended up using a very simular line encoding)
The DFxxx are KL10 cpu diagnostics, BIN are code for the chanel-cpu's
Glad I have diagnostics at least, if they are just KL10 diags there should
be a DEC reference of what diag = what.
Yes; xxKAA is the basic instruction test for a PDP10, DBKAA for
example runs on a KI10...
In you directory there is no operating system, it can still be on the
the disk in the OS file-system, but you need to teach the boot to look
at that drive..
Good thing EDDT works!
...no idea how to break back to NSP though...or anything about the
bootloader.
Control \
Do you have more than 1 drive?
No, my disk bays were empty.
Disk bay? Take another picture, please.
As those are just 512-byte-sector ones I believe you said...those are easy
enough to image. I'd just need to give Gerry a ring so I can swing by
with a VAX or something that'll accept a SCSI drive.
Does the microcode/boot drive operate as a MASSBUS emulator, or is it also
SCSI brought out directly? (That one would POSSIBLY be documented
though...unlike the other stuff. So TOPS-20 could be made to work on
that)
Kindof... There are several operating modes, Standard T10, Standard
T20, 25 bit physical address T10, 30 Bit virtual adress Tops20.
Unless there is something special with the CS boxes, it will start off
pretending to be a normal KL10-B-E with masbuss..
Put the Panda20 monitor on it ans se if it boots.
Need to get a compatible tape drive so I can do anything real.
basically any SCSI tape works, a DLT, A DAT a 9trk....
-P
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Peter Lothberg wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/ZmLpwhV.jpg
So you have a CDDI (fddi over copper) interface and 3 SCSI ports.
Interesting that it's brought out to RJ45 connectors though!
I thought copper FDDI was a mini-DIN? Was that a Cisco-specific implementation?
http://i.imgur.com/KYl73d8.jpg
BOOT40.EXE tell me about hung SCSI devices (Shocker, none plugged in).
BTSCFC Can't find any channels
Can't tell if I'm missing a drive the rest of the OS would be on.
I think that "boot40" tells it to boot from chan4/drive0.
That makes sense.
The DFxxx are KL10 cpu diagnostics, BIN are code for the chanel-cpu's
Glad I have diagnostics at least, if they are just KL10 diags there should be a DEC reference of what diag = what.
In you directory there is no operating system, it can still be on the
the disk in the OS file-system, but you need to teach the boot to look
at that drive..
Good thing EDDT works!
...no idea how to break back to NSP though...or anything about the bootloader.
Do you have more than 1 drive?
No, my disk bays were empty.
As those are just 512-byte-sector ones I believe you said...those are easy enough to image. I'd just need to give Gerry a ring so I can swing by with a VAX or something that'll accept a SCSI drive.
Does the microcode/boot drive operate as a MASSBUS emulator, or is it also SCSI brought out directly? (That one would POSSIBLY be documented though...unlike the other stuff. So TOPS-20 could be made to work on that)
Need to get a compatible tape drive so I can do anything real.
-P
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
RH channels:
LOGICAL ACTUAL TYPE MISCELLANEOUS
5 CHN1 EI
0 CHN0 SI MASK=0x03
1 CHN2 SI MASK=0x03
7 CHN3 CI PORT#=0x3
http://i.imgur.com/ZmLpwhV.jpg
So you have a CDDI (fddi over copper) interface and 3 SCSI ports.
http://i.imgur.com/KYl73d8.jpg
BOOT40.EXE tell me about hung SCSI devices (Shocker, none plugged in).
BTSCFC Can't find any channels
Can't tell if I'm missing a drive the rest of the OS would be on.
I think that "boot40" tells it to boot from chan4/drive0.
The DFxxx are KL10 cpu diagnostics, BIN are code for the chanel-cpu's
In you directory there is no operating system, it can still be on the
the disk in the OS file-system, but you need to teach the boot to look
at that drive..
Do you have more than 1 drive?
-P
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015, Peter Lothberg wrote:
Cory,
When you have sorted out the console thing, do:
NSP>show cpu assIGNMENT
CPU0 has the following channels assigned:
No IU channels
RH channels:
LOGICAL ACTUAL TYPE MISCELLANEOUS
5 CHN1 EI
0 CHN0 SI MASK=0x03
1 CHN2 SI MASK=0x03
7 CHN3 CI PORT#=0x3
http://i.imgur.com/ZmLpwhV.jpg
DTEs:
LOGICAL ACTUAL TYPE MISCELLANEOUS
0 FE PRIVILEGED
and
NSP>dir
http://i.imgur.com/KYl73d8.jpg
BOOT40.EXE tell me about hung SCSI devices (Shocker, none plugged in). BTSCFC Can't find any channels
Can't tell if I'm missing a drive the rest of the OS would be on.
-P
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
Grounding issue sorted. Trying diagnostics.
Booting compuserve monitor complains about file not found. Could be on a disk I don't have.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 13, 2015, at 01:37, Cory Smelosky <b4 at gewt.net> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
Looking like it's some grounding issue somewhere. Waiting until someone with better eyes had physical access and can trace it out...due to no schematics unless Peter has some.
paul
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
On 2015-02-13 15:36, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Feb 13, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com
<mailto:clemc at ccc.com>> wrote:
I agree, I never saw _/correctly/_ configured systems with anything
less than 8 bits. 7 with parity (8 total) as Paul said,
was pretty standard. particularly on modems. Early UNIX tty drivers
used to assume it and pretty much always AND 0x7F with the input
character.
Not only that, but some (BSD 2.9?) put out text with 0x80 ORed into the
output stream, which messes up modern terminal emulators.
It's still there in 2.11BSD, until the last (unofficial) patch set I sent out a few years ago which removed it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2015-02-13 14:44, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
Yes, but that s 8 bits total. I was referring to 7 bits, no parity, no fixed extra bit like a mark bit.
Right. And as to the question about no devices actually ever using 7 bits, it is still a good thing to test, when you are trying to find patterns. But I don't actually know of any device that actually have been 7 bits pure. But it is one way of testing for possible strange parity issues.
We can go on discussing possible ways of troubleshooting serial ports for quite a while. And I'm happy to do so, if we really want to.
But in the current case, the problem seems to indeed have been grounding problems. So from that point of view, this isn't a problem any more.
Johnny
paul
On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:45 PM, pechter at gmail.com wrote:
I saw 7 bit mark and 7 even back in my old Field Service days in the 80s...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:59
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SC-40
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
paul
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Feb 13, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
I agree, I never saw correctly configured systems with anything less than 8 bits. 7 with parity (8 total) as Paul said, was pretty standard. particularly on modems. Early UNIX tty drivers used to assume it and pretty much always AND 0x7F with the input character.
Not only that, but some (BSD 2.9?) put out text with 0x80 ORed into the output stream, which messes up modern terminal emulators.
Less than 8 does appear in some places. There s the old 5 bit code (Murray and friends, referred to as Baudot or RTTY by hams). There are a pile of 6 bit codes that were used by newspaper wire service data sources, carrying a variety of typesetting codes specific to the data carried. For example, stock data had lots of special codes for all the fractions then used for prices. I did some work on drivers for that, DL11s with an unusual collection of mode jumpers most likely.
paul
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 8:44 AM, <Paul_Koning at dell.com> wrote:
Yes, but that s 8 bits total. I was referring to 7 bits, no parity, no fixed extra bit like a mark bit.
paul
I agree, I never saw correctly configured systems with anything less than 8 bits. 7 with parity (8 total) as Paul said, was pretty standard. particularly on modems. Early UNIX tty drivers used to assume it and pretty much always AND 0x7F with the input character.
Clem
Yes, but that s 8 bits total. I was referring to 7 bits, no parity, no fixed extra bit like a mark bit.
paul
On Feb 12, 2015, at 9:45 PM, pechter at gmail.com wrote:
I saw 7 bit mark and 7 even back in my old Field Service days in the 80s...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:59
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SC-40
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
paul
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015, Paul_Koning at Dell.com wrote:
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
Looking like it's some grounding issue somewhere. Waiting until someone with better eyes had physical access and can trace it out...due to no schematics unless Peter has some.
paul
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
I saw 7 bit mark and 7 even back in my old Field Service days in the 80s...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:59
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SC-40
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
=20
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then mo=
ve on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I=E2=80=99ve never seen. I would start with =
8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it=E2=80=99s 110 bps. 7 bits with pa=
rity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I=E2=80=99ve seen 8 =
and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can=E2=80=99t think of any 7 bits=
in the wild.
The SC40 expects a serial byte with values 0..127 (8 bits, MSB always
=0) no parity one stop bit.
--P
I saw 7 bit mark and 7 even back in my old Field Service days in the 80s...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul_Koning at Dell.com
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:59
Subject: Re: [HECnet] SC-40
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
paul
On Feb 12, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> wrote:
...
Start with just 7 bits no parity. Try both one and two stop bits. Then move on from there.
7 bits no parity is something I ve never seen. I would start with 8 bits no parity, one stop bit unless it s 110 bps. 7 bits with parity, that does come up on a few occasions. But while I ve seen 8 and 5 and even 6 bit serial comms used, I can t think of any 7 bits in the wild.
paul
Hello!
I remember watching a VAX system at work, suffice to say the operator
promptly did something along the lines of what you did Robert, and the
machine complained about not having any bananas (Along the lines of
that song.)
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Erik Olofsen <e.olofsen at xs4all.nl> wrote:
Eggs may be scrambled as well!
$ EXIT %x3f30b70
%KATIE-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:11:44AM -0800, Robert Armstrong wrote:
$ show sys
OpenVMS V8.3 on node CODA 12-FEB-2015 11:08:30.67 Uptime 0 00:11:00
....
$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$MESSAGE (2928)
%SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
$
Looks like Fred is right!
Bob
> IIRC there are side covers for the cabinet.
Yeah, that s what I remember. You stand it up on its side and there are plastic covers for the top and bottom (which are now the sides) as well as some kind of feet for the bottom (which used to be the side). Without the bottom part it won t sit correctly on its side because the front hangs over (that s the part where the rack rails would have been).
Bob
Is there such a thing as a floor stand? IIRC there are side covers for the cabinet. You can turn the cd cd bay 90 degrees and put the cabinet on its narrow side. Which is how I use my Ds20E, sans covers and front though. The Ds25 has a front, same applies I think.
Hans
Verzonden vanaf mijn BlackBerry 10-smartphone.
Van: Robert Armstrong
Verzonden: donderdag 12 februari 2015 21:14
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Beantwoorden: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: [HECnet] Floor stand for DS20E
This reminds me does anyone know of a floor stand/case for the DS20E? I ve got a rack mount unit (it s a really nice system, actually) but no rack to put it in.
Thanks,
Bob
This reminds me does anyone know of a floor stand/case for the DS20E? I ve got a rack mount unit (it s a really nice system, actually) but no rack to put it in.
Thanks,
Bob
Eggs may be scrambled as well!
$ EXIT %x3f30b70
%KATIE-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:11:44AM -0800, Robert Armstrong wrote:
$ show sys
OpenVMS V8.3 on node CODA 12-FEB-2015 11:08:30.67 Uptime 0 00:11:00
....
$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$MESSAGE (2928)
%SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
$
Looks like Fred is right!
Bob
Yeah. Looks like the unworldly SCSI a cables bent bus pins though. Didn't notice until a bit later.
Pulling backplane for inspection
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 12, 2015, at 14:37, Jim Carpenter <jim at deitygraveyard.com> wrote:
On Feb 12, 2015 2:27 PM, "Cory Smelosky" <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: > > I moved the PSU, re plugged it in as is...and now I can press return. >
So serial is working completely correctly now?
On 02/12/2015 06:43 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
Sorry. It's just that sometimes my patience runs thin. And the video just shows someone who is trying totally random things without giving me any impression he knows at all what he is doing.
Sorry for wearing you out :D
I'm probably just expecting things at a level you don't see anymore.
nope, serial is to low level :)
/P
