Could that be ncl talking back to your ncp?
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: maandag, december 2011 22:29
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem / NIKKEL
On 2011-12-26 18.46, H Vlems wrote:
Johnny, what is wrong with NIKKEL as seen from your end?
Sorry. I should really have told that one...
.ncp tell nikkel sho exec
NCP -- Show failed, oversized Management command message
Johnny
Hans
PS Ni is a phase V decnet node
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: maandag, december 2011 15:37
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
On 2011-12-26 15.24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2011-12-26 15.07, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Hmmm.. LEGATO can't talk to ROOSTA ("remote node not currently
reachable") even though there's a direct Multinet link to ROOSTA (and
yes, the link is UP and working).
I think the problem is that ROOSTA is in area 6, and the area router for
6 is STAR69. Trouble is, STAR69 doesn't have a path to ROOSTA and
doesn't know how to send it packets.
Unless ROOSTA is an area router, that link makes no sense. You cannot
have (usable) links between different areas unless both ends are area
routers...
It would appear something is more broken currently. I can't talk to SG1
from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it. And SG1 is currently acting
as the next hop for a whole bunch of areas, as seen from area 1.
Also, while I'm at it: NIKKEL - There is some issue with that machine
too. Can others talk with it?
Johnny
On 26/12/2011 21:30, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2011-12-26 17.00, Bob Armstrong wrote:
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are
bridged onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge,
She's not using the bridge, though. ROOSTA has a multinet
connection to
LEGATO (which I don't mind, but as Johnny said, isn't going to work).
If ROOSTA isn't an area router, then there is absolutely no point in
having links to other areas.
If a machine is an area router, it makes sense, but only if the link
leads to another machine that also is an area router for that other area.
It is perfectly fine to have several links between various areas.
ROOSTA is an area router, but, yes it does need a direct link to the
rest of area 6
Chrissie
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
Of Mark Benson
Subject: [HECnet] Windows 2000
I have a Windows 2000 workstation running on my desk with a Dual
PIII-933Mhz setup.
I would like to know if any of DEC/Compaq's utilities for Windows NT
are still out
in the wild. I know for example there is a Windows NT x86 Notes
client. I also
know that PATHWORKS 32 for Windows allowed Windows NT boxes to use DECnet.
Also
There are various VMS remote management tools.
Does anyone know if I can find these anymore, and where? Also is there
anything
else out there that might be of interest?
NTNotes (Windows NT x86 Notes client):
http://www.decuslib.com/decus/freewarev70/notes/windows/
On 2011-12-26 17.00, Bob Armstrong wrote:
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are
bridged onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge,
She's not using the bridge, though. ROOSTA has a multinet connection to
LEGATO (which I don't mind, but as Johnny said, isn't going to work).
If ROOSTA isn't an area router, then there is absolutely no point in having links to other areas.
If a machine is an area router, it makes sense, but only if the link leads to another machine that also is an area router for that other area.
It is perfectly fine to have several links between various areas.
Johnny
On 2011-12-26 18.46, H Vlems wrote:
Johnny, what is wrong with NIKKEL as seen from your end?
Sorry. I should really have told that one...
.ncp tell nikkel sho exec
NCP -- Show failed, oversized Management command message
Johnny
Hans
PS Ni is a phase V decnet node
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: maandag, december 2011 15:37
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
On 2011-12-26 15.24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2011-12-26 15.07, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Hmmm.. LEGATO can't talk to ROOSTA ("remote node not currently
reachable") even though there's a direct Multinet link to ROOSTA (and
yes, the link is UP and working).
I think the problem is that ROOSTA is in area 6, and the area router for
6 is STAR69. Trouble is, STAR69 doesn't have a path to ROOSTA and
doesn't know how to send it packets.
Unless ROOSTA is an area router, that link makes no sense. You cannot
have (usable) links between different areas unless both ends are area
routers...
It would appear something is more broken currently. I can't talk to SG1
from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it. And SG1 is currently acting
as the next hop for a whole bunch of areas, as seen from area 1.
Also, while I'm at it: NIKKEL - There is some issue with that machine
too. Can others talk with it?
Johnny
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On Behalf
Of Mark Benson
Subject: [HECnet] Windows 2000
I have a Windows 2000 workstation running on my desk with a Dual
PIII-933Mhz setup.
I would like to know if any of DEC/Compaq's utilities for Windows NT are
still out
in the wild. I know for example there is a Windows NT x86 Notes client. I
also
know that PATHWORKS 32 for Windows allowed Windows NT boxes to use DECnet.
Also
There are various VMS remote management tools.
Does anyone know if I can find these anymore, and where? Also is there
anything
else out there that might be of interest?
Pathworks and Availability Manager: ftp://ftp.langstoeger.at/PC/;type=d
I have a Windows 2000 workstation running on my desk with a Dual PIII-933Mhz setup.
I would like to know if any of DEC/Compaq's utilities for Windows NT are still out
in the wild. I know for example there is a Windows NT x86 Notes client. I also
know that PATHWORKS 32 for Windows allowed Windows NT boxes to use DECnet. Also
There are various VMS remote management tools.
Does anyone know if I can find these anymore, and where? Also is there anything
else out there that might be of interest?
I am running 2 Emulators (a VAX and a PDP-11) on this machine also.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 26 Dec 2011, at 16:00, Bob Armstrong wrote:
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are
bridged onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge,
She's not using the bridge, though. ROOSTA has a multinet connection to
LEGATO (which I don't mind, but as Johnny said, isn't going to work).
Okay, well STAR69 has Multinet on it but as for tunnelling between them
I ain't got a clue, chief, and again I can't guarantee 100% uptime on the
link if it is opened.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Johnny, what is wrong with NIKKEL as seen from your end?
Hans
PS Ni is a phase V decnet node
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] Namens
Johnny Billquist
Verzonden: maandag, december 2011 15:37
Aan: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Onderwerp: Re: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
On 2011-12-26 15.24, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2011-12-26 15.07, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Hmmm.. LEGATO can't talk to ROOSTA ("remote node not currently
reachable") even though there's a direct Multinet link to ROOSTA (and
yes, the link is UP and working).
I think the problem is that ROOSTA is in area 6, and the area router for
6 is STAR69. Trouble is, STAR69 doesn't have a path to ROOSTA and
doesn't know how to send it packets.
Unless ROOSTA is an area router, that link makes no sense. You cannot
have (usable) links between different areas unless both ends are area
routers...
It would appear something is more broken currently. I can't talk to SG1
from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it. And SG1 is currently acting
as the next hop for a whole bunch of areas, as seen from area 1.
Also, while I'm at it: NIKKEL - There is some issue with that machine
too. Can others talk with it?
Johnny
ROOSTA is tunneled into SG1 as well...
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Bob Armstrong
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 11:01 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are
bridged onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge,
She's not using the bridge, though. ROOSTA has a multinet connection
to
LEGATO (which I don't mind, but as Johnny said, isn't going to work).
Bob
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are
bridged onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge,
She's not using the bridge, though. ROOSTA has a multinet connection to
LEGATO (which I don't mind, but as Johnny said, isn't going to work).
Bob
On 26 Dec 2011, at 15:38, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Well, your node name database appears to be out of date (copy the new one
from MIM), but that's just a peripheral issue. It doesn't bother anyone but
you, so if you don't care then don't worry about it.
I updated it anyway, like I said it takes me a minute to telnet in and
rattle off the MCR NCP command :)
The main point is that ROOSTA can't use area 6 unless it's connected (via
Multinet presumably) to STAR69. Whether ROOSTA is an area router or not
doesn't change this. You and Chrissie will need to work that out.
I assumed (perhaps stupidly) that as long as Chrissie's machines are bridged
onto HECnet somewhere using Johnny's bridge, they'd find STAR69 and their
area routing. IF ROOSTA is a real DEC boxen then this might get more complex.
As for if ROOSTA is an Area router, then nothing would be needed at my end,
Chrissie would only need a bridge into HECnet somewhere using a bridge. That's
not going to need my involvement as she would have everything she needed to
communicate with HECnet without me.
I have a shell and simh script to start up LEGATO, although at the moment
it's not automatic if the host Linux box reboots. I'd be glad to share the
scripts, although they're trivial and probably would need to be modified for
your use anyway.
I have a one-shot script that builds my tap0, bridge0, then boots simh-vax
and gets the emulator to the sim> prompt (I prefer no to completely automate
the process in case I have to intervene for some reason).
Actually what I'd really like is to have my Linux box automatically start
the simh on an alternate console window. Any Upstart experts out there??
I can't do that because I use SSH for everything native on the box and I
don't know how to access an alternate TTY from an SSH terminal in NetBSD.
I use screen instead - it suffices for headless booting but just don't try
using it for EDT or the like ;)
Again, I'm sorry if me dicking about caused any issues, but I'm having fun
over here :D
I don't think you caused any problems, but you've got to help fix this one
:-)
I just wondered if me pulling STAR69 down con-incided with that problem, it was
about the right timing.
Keep having fun.
Oh I am :)
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
if there is an issue with the node database it's my fault.
Well, your node name database appears to be out of date (copy the new one
from MIM), but that's just a peripheral issue. It doesn't bother anyone but
you, so if you don't care then don't worry about it.
If there is no harm in having 2 Area Routers I strongly recommend Chrissie
has one too as for the moment I can't rely on STAR69:: being up 100% of the
time.
The main point is that ROOSTA can't use area 6 unless it's connected (via
Multinet presumably) to STAR69. Whether ROOSTA is an area router or not
doesn't change this. You and Chrissie will need to work that out.
It doesn't auto-restart after a power outage and also the VAX emulator is
hand booted
so even if I remember to turn it on I might forget to VAX-boot. Similarly,
although my
LINUX box (HP Microserver) is self-rebooting the bridge is also hand
initialised.
I have a shell and simh script to start up LEGATO, although at the moment
it's not automatic if the host Linux box reboots. I'd be glad to share the
scripts, although they're trivial and probably would need to be modified for
your use anyway.
Actually what I'd really like is to have my Linux box automatically start
the simh on an alternate console window. Any Upstart experts out there??
Again, I'm sorry if me dicking about caused any issues, but I'm having fun
over here :D
I don't think you caused any problems, but you've got to help fix this one
:-)
Keep having fun.
Bob
On 26 Dec 2011, at 14:58, Bob Armstrong wrote:
b) Connect ROOSTA to HECnet via STAR69. Drop the LEGATO link (as
you said, it's pointless).
c) Have ROOSTA continue to be an area router, and make sure ROOSTA have a
link to STAR69, and then any other areas we care to.
This isn't really any different than "b", is it? The point is still that
ROOSTA can't be in area 6 unless it's connected to STAR69.
STAR69 is my machine, if there is an issue with the node database it's my fault.
Someone could have e-mailed and asked me to update the node DB on it, it takes
less than a minute :\
STAR69 also went down briefly this afternoon. You may have suffered a loss of
area routing on Area 6 as a result. I apologise, I'd have avoided it if at all
possible but it's my only remaining BSD machine and I needed to pull my PDP-11
emulator files off the BSD disk out of COWBOX's host machine that died.
If there is no harm in having 2 Area Routers I strongly recommend Chrissie has
one too as for the moment I can't rely on STAR69:: being up 100% of the time. It
doesn't auto-restart after a power outage and also the VAX emulator is hand booted
so even if I remember to turn it on I might forget to VAX-boot. Similarly,
although my LINUX box (HP Microserver) is self-rebooting the bridge is also hand
initialised.
So basically if I have a power outage at any time you will likely lose everything
on my circuit for 12 hours... or until I remember it's off which last time was a
couple of weeks :\
Again, I'm sorry if me dicking about caused any issues, but I'm having fun over
here :D
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 2011-12-26 15.58, Bob Armstrong wrote:
b) Connect ROOSTA to HECnet via STAR69. Drop the LEGATO link (as
you said, it's pointless).
c) Have ROOSTA continue to be an area router, and make sure ROOSTA have a
link to STAR69, and then any other areas we care to.
This isn't really any different than "b", is it? The point is still that
ROOSTA can't be in area 6 unless it's connected to STAR69.
Sortof. If ROOSTA is an area router, and have a connection to STAR69, then ROOSTA don't need to drop the link to LEGATO.
Johnny
I didn't think so. SIGH...
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Bob Armstrong
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 10:01 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: RE: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
Licenses expired.
On Christmas day?? What a nice present :-)
Bob
b) Connect ROOSTA to HECnet via STAR69. Drop the LEGATO link (as
you said, it's pointless).
c) Have ROOSTA continue to be an area router, and make sure ROOSTA have a
link to STAR69, and then any other areas we care to.
This isn't really any different than "b", is it? The point is still that
ROOSTA can't be in area 6 unless it's connected to STAR69.
Bob
SG1: is down! Licenses expired. Sorry... I'm working on it.
Update to follow!
-Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE [mailto:owner-hecnet at Update.UU.SE] On
Behalf Of Johnny Billquist
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 9:50 AM
To: hecnet at Update.UU.SE
Subject: Re: [HECnet] ROOSTA routing problem
On 2011-12-26 15.41, Bob Armstrong wrote:
I can't talk to SG1 from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it.
SG1 appears to be down (at least my connection to it isn't working,
either).
It sounds like we can declare SG1 down then, yes. :-)
And SG1 is currently acting as the next hop for a whole bunch of
areas, as
seen from area 1.
Like what? Most of these nodes should have redundant paths (that's
good,
remember :-) so it sounds like MIM's routing table is stale.
It don't really work that way always, unfortunately.
As far as MIM is concerned, SG1 is still up, no matter how defunct it
is. It is still broadcasting routing information, and is still therefore
considered in the route selection, and it wins for a bunch of areas.
If SG1 would just go away, another path would be chosen, yes, but SG1
has not gone away. It is just broken in some way making it appear to be
ok from a routing point of view.
Somebody really should make a diagram of the HECnet topology...
Yes, please! It would be very nice.
Johnny
On 2011-12-26 15.45, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Yes, technically nothing will complain. But the network will be broken.
Right. So Chrissie can't make ROOSTA an area router, because area 6
already has one.
Well, you can have two area routers. Nothing wrong with that. You just have to make sure that the rules for connections are obeyed.
AFAIK, she has two options -
a) Move ROOSTA and all her nodes to a new area, and make ROOSTA an area
router. Of course, we collectively just told her to move from area 3 to 6,
so she might be grumpy about that.
b) Connect ROOSTA to HECnet via STAR69. Drop the LEGATO link (as you
said, it's pointless).
c) Have ROOSTA continue to be an area router, and make sure ROOSTA have a link to STAR69, and then any other areas we care to.
I suspect we have a broken setup somewhere...
Yes...
Nothing is, however, ever easy... :-)
Johnny
On 2011-12-26 15.41, Bob Armstrong wrote:
I can't talk to SG1 from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it.
SG1 appears to be down (at least my connection to it isn't working,
either).
It sounds like we can declare SG1 down then, yes. :-)
And SG1 is currently acting as the next hop for a whole bunch of areas, as
seen from area 1.
Like what? Most of these nodes should have redundant paths (that's good,
remember :-) so it sounds like MIM's routing table is stale.
It don't really work that way always, unfortunately.
As far as MIM is concerned, SG1 is still up, no matter how defunct it is. It is still broadcasting routing information, and is still therefore considered in the route selection, and it wins for a bunch of areas.
If SG1 would just go away, another path would be chosen, yes, but SG1 has not gone away. It is just broken in some way making it appear to be ok from a routing point of view.
Somebody really should make a diagram of the HECnet topology...
Yes, please! It would be very nice.
Johnny
Right. So Chrissie can't make ROOSTA an area router, because area 6
already has one.
Wrong. You can have as many area routers in your area as needed and
then some.
--
Regards, Rok
Yes, technically nothing will complain. But the network will be broken.
Right. So Chrissie can't make ROOSTA an area router, because area 6
already has one.
AFAIK, she has two options -
a) Move ROOSTA and all her nodes to a new area, and make ROOSTA an area
router. Of course, we collectively just told her to move from area 3 to 6,
so she might be grumpy about that.
b) Connect ROOSTA to HECnet via STAR69. Drop the LEGATO link (as you
said, it's pointless).
I suspect we have a broken setup somewhere...
Yes...
Bob
I can't talk to SG1 from MIM either, and thus nothing beyond it.
SG1 appears to be down (at least my connection to it isn't working,
either).
And SG1 is currently acting as the next hop for a whole bunch of areas, as
seen from area 1.
Like what? Most of these nodes should have redundant paths (that's good,
remember :-) so it sounds like MIM's routing table is stale.
Somebody really should make a diagram of the HECnet topology...
Bob
On 2011-12-26 15.36, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Unless ROOSTA is an area router, that link makes no sense.
I won't argue with you about that... I can't fix it from here, though.
But does DECnet allow two different area routers, with different subsets of
reachable nodes, for the same area??
Yes, technically nothing will complain. But the network will be broken.
The problem/issue is that all area routers must have direct connections with all other area routers, with no intermediate level 1 routers, since that will cause the area routers to have a broken view of how the universe looks. Area routers share information with all other area routers, using special area routing messages that are sent along the links between the area routers. A level 1 router will not propagate that information, but just discard it, as it is unknown junk to a level 1 router.
I suspect we have a broken setup somewhere...
Johnny
